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The Danish Mohammad cartoon row - what do you think? |
amnesia
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Doha, London, Tokyo, Shanghai
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I think it's only been recentely discussed, other religions have been discussed too.
see
http://www.esato.com/board/vi[....]pic=74924&start=60#post1005376
http://www.esato.com/board/vi[....]opic=45334&start=15#post606284
http://www.esato.com/board/viewtopic.php?topic=58738#post762906
http://www.esato.com/board/viewtopic.php?topic=72726#post962104
http://www.esato.com/board/viewtopic.php?topic=25006#post338570
http://www.esato.com/board/viewtopic.php?topic=23463#post313168
http://www.esato.com/board/viewtopic.php?topic=105653#post1447231
http://www.esato.com/board/vi[....]pic=91578&start=15#post1239921
there are ALOT of threads related to other religions, for example, if there is a Christian thread I might take a look at it, but I wont complain that there is a thread or ruin it.
edit: axxxr and 768 act in defensive mode when somebody actively puts down their faith, otherwise they would have something to reply to.
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[ This Message was edited by: amnesia on 2006-02-09 19:30 ] | |
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joebmc
Joined: Jan 03, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Kent
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Most of those threads are 2-3 years old. And i've only been really posting in the mobile phone free zone for the past year.
Axxxr and 768 have every right to defend there religion, but there still seem biased to me.
Just becasue i'm questioning Islam dosn't mean I'm more against it than any other religion and if i remember correctly this thread is to do with muslims there for is to to with islam.
I feel my questions about why muslims dont stand up against extremists in the west has hit a nerve and that is why you've decided to single me out.
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solidsingh
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
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From: india
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nah joe - no1 is singling you out, i think you raise a valid point about why good muslims dont stand up against bad muslims
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amnesia
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
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I wasn't singling you out for bringing up the question of why Muslims dont stand up to extremists.
I posted quite alot of links proving that Muslims do in the last (or page before) page.
What I am saying is that you dont appear to be a person who's trying to learn, but rather a person who's trying to simply disregard Muslim's opinions, simply because you aren't one, or don't care about religion.
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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From: UK
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Quote:
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On 2006-02-09 19:14:11, amnesia wrote:
I'm saying it is a literal translation and to those people and others it is the closest word to their true definition.
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I understand your point, but what I am saying is that it is not only the word which is important, but the context too. Whilst the literal translation of a word may be one thing, the literal translation is not always the best one to use. The London protests seemed to be composed largely of Britons, that being the case the majority of the protestors would almost certainly have had knowledge of the English language. They would have known that use of words like 'slay' can really only be interpreted as meaning one thing when used in that context.
If they didn't actually mean to call for people to be killed then there are far more suitable words they could have used. I very much doubt that those making such placrds would not have known that.
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joebmc
Joined: Jan 03, 2003
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From: Kent
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Quote:
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On 2006-02-09 22:23:12, amnesia wrote:
What I am saying is that you dont appear to be a person who's trying to learn, but rather a person who's trying to simply disregard Muslim's opinions, simply because you aren't one, or don't care about religion.
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I can see what you mean, maybe its just the way frase my questions.
But surly one has to question to learn.
I can honestly say i see islam no less (or greater) then any other religion.
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[ This Message was edited by: joebmc on 2006-02-09 21:31 ] |
axxxr
Joined: Mar 21, 2003
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From: Londinium
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Quote:
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On 2006-02-09 20:53:56, joebmc wrote:
Most of those threads are 2-3 years old. And i've only been really posting in the mobile phone free zone for the past year.
Axxxr and 768 have every right to defend there religion, but there still seem biased to me.
Just becasue i'm questioning Islam dosn't mean I'm more against it than any other religion and if i remember correctly this thread is to do with muslims there for is to to with islam.
I feel my questions about why muslims dont stand up against extremists in the west has hit a nerve and that is why you've decided to single me out.
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Now stop feeling victimised....no one is trying to single you out,amnesia is trying to point across to you explain everything..constantly saying but this but that when everything has been explained over and over again only incrreases tension and frustration for everyone..like welshtom said we keep going around in endless circles about the same thing,its pathetic.
You think we are biased and what about you,your not?
If you think extremists only exsist in islam thats where your very wrong,the only thing with muslims is that they are now sick and tired of being targets of hatred,..don;t provoke them in the first place for the extreme elements to justify their actions...the U.S govt can illegaly invade iraq and kill 100,000 of its innocent people thats not extremism?...yet you feel offended when a small radical group beheads someone in iraq,dont forget they are under occupation and its a war...its the iraqis country not the americans,..they have no right to be there!..As they say everything is fair in love and war!
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GreenKronic
Joined: Oct 08, 2005
Posts: 1
From: Tampa,Fl
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This is from the NY times and I agree 100% with it.....
Those Danish Cartoons
Cartoons making fun of the Prophet Muhammad that were published in a Danish newspaper last September are suddenly one of the hottest issues in international politics. Muslims in Europe and across the Middle East have been holding protests with growing levels of violence and now loss of life.
The easy points to make about the continuing crisis are that (a) people are bound to be offended if their religion is publicly mocked, and (b) the proper response is not to go on a rampage and burn down buildings. If Muslim organizations want to stage peaceful marches or organize boycotts of Danish goods, they're certainly within their rights.
The pictures, one of which showed the prophet with a bomb on top of his head in place of a turban, violate a common belief among Muslims that any depiction of Muhammad is sacrilege. The paper that first published them did so as an experiment to see whether political satirists were capable of being as harsh to Islam as they are to other organized religions. If that sounds juvenile, Americans still recognize it as within the speech protected by our First Amendment.
The New York Times and much of the rest of the nation's news media have reported on the cartoons but refrained from showing them. That seems a reasonable choice for news organizations that usually refrain from gratuitous assaults on religious symbols, especially since the cartoons are so easy to describe in words.
The cartoons were largely unnoticed outside Denmark until a group of Muslim leaders there made a point of circulating them, along with drawings far more offensive than the relatively mild stuff actually printed by the paper, Jyllands-Posten. It's far from the first time that an almost-forgotten incident has been dredged up to score points with the public during politically sensitive times.
The governments of the countries in which the demonstrations are occurring are responsible for keeping them nonviolent. Lebanese officials have rightly apologized to Denmark for failing to control a protest that ended with the torching of the Danish Consulate in Beirut. That's in stark contrast with what happened in Syria, a nation where there is no such thing as a spontaneous demonstration, yet where large crowds managed to assemble and set fire to the Danish and Norwegian Embassies.
After Looking at all the Cartoons..Where does it say this is Mohammed...I have seen nothing in print stating that is Mohammed......Did the Muslims just take this to be Mohammed or was it said in the skits that it was Mohammed..........
It is a Cartoon but damn they do have some basis........
@AXXXR come on now most of the people fightong in Iraq are forign fighters so you cant say it is because we are there.......There is extremist in every religon but it doesnt seem as widespread.....
[ This Message was edited by: GreenKronic on 2006-02-09 22:02 ] |
axxxr
Joined: Mar 21, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Londinium
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Under your First Amendment act is ok then to publish some humerous holocaust pics aswell then?,,,or how about a few of slavery?only cartoons after all..don't think so...I can imagine the uproar and mass public mayhem and distruction if that ever happened...remember the king incident when the cops beat him to a pulp,and that was'nt even a religious issue.
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GreenKronic
Joined: Oct 08, 2005
Posts: 1
From: Tampa,Fl
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but you are taking a Cartoon and comparing it to an actually person being beatin.,...... I have one for you if i can find it...
Piss Christ vs. Cartoon Jihad
By Rocco DiPippo
FrontPageMagazine.com | February 6, 2006
Back in 1988, Andres Serrano submerged a crucifix in a vat of his urine, photographed the result and called it “art.”
Naturally, many of the world's two billion Christians were bothered by his antics. Members of the U.S. Congress called for a hard look at the National Endowment for the Arts, which had helped fund Serrano. Public outcry against Serrano was vocal and widespread.
As the uproar grew, numerous editorials in defense of Piss Christ, Serrano's controversial creation, were printed in U.S. and European newspapers and the Western cultural elite quickly sprang to his defense. For months, the New York Times beat the “freedom of expression” drum for all its worth, publishing numerous articles and opinion pieces sympathetic to Serrano and depicting him as courageous. In New York City, where Serrano lived, 400 New York artists held a public rally in support of his work and his right to create and display it. Serrano became a celebrated art world hero.
Though some criticisms of Piss Christ, and the man who created it, were intemperate, Serrano's art was never forced underground, nor was his life seriously threatened, nor was he forced into hiding a la Salman Rushdie or placed in protective custody. Violence-prone packs of Christians did not roam the streets of Paris, or London, or Frankfurt, or Madrid, or New York calling for the head of Piss Christ's creator.
Serrano as “art star,” soon faded like the controversy caused by his tasteless creation. Today, as in the 1980s, he freely and openly produces provocative, blasphemous and often pornographic art including that which reflects the cultural elite's unending obsessions with, and deification of, homosexuality, transgenderism, and bodily mutilation. He never has, nor will he likely ever, push the outer limit of controversial artistic expression by creating work critical of, or disrespectful towards Islam.
Contrast the Christian reaction to Serrano's openly blasphemous Piss Christ, with that of the Muslim reaction to a series of cartoons recently published in the Jyllands-Posten, a Danish newspaper.
Late last year, the Jyllands-Posten decided to test the limits of free speech by publishing a series of cartoons featuring the prophet Mohammed. Politicized and radicalized Muslims have reacted to their publication by calling for the deaths of the cartoonists, by beating up shopkeepers who sell Danish products and by holding vocal, and often violent, demonstrations.
Members of the terrorist Islamist “Glory Brigades” now threaten Denmark with homicide bombing. The murderous savages comprising Palestinian Islamic Jihad marched on the UN headquarters in Gaza, Palestinian thugs took over Gaza's European Union office to protest the cartoons and demand their removal. Danish flags are being torched and shops selling Danish products are being boycotted and vandalized all over the Arab and Muslim world. Even Libya got in on the act, closing its embassy in Copenhagen to protest the Danish government's refusal to force Jyllands-Posten to remove the cartoons.
Christianity is routinely mocked and vilified in most counties where Islam is the dominant religion. Countless thousands of Christians have, in recent years, paid the ultimate price for practicing their faith among Muslims, including three young Indonesian girls butchered by Muslim psychopaths as they walked to Christian school. Hate-filled anti-Semitic cartoons pepper the pages of Arab and Muslim newspapers. Programs meant to incite hatred of Judaism and violence against Jews are regularly featured on Arab Muslim television networks. And yet, politicized Muslims, who rarely, if ever, categorically condemn the barbarous acts of their co-religionists and often cheer those same acts, behave as if they desire to see “infidel” blood spilled over a series of provocative drawings. Is their religion not strong enough to withstand the cartoon assault on it?
The response to all this, from the appeasement-prone Western cultural elite, has been a predictable, Theo van Gogh-like silence. The response from the American main-stream media, a virtual news blackout.
In spite of the glaring lack of support by, ironically, those in America ideally positioned to suffer from any restrictions on free expression, Denmark and its government refuse to cave in and apologize to the Muslim cultural police, even as the leftwing government of Denmark's pathologically “tolerant” neighbor, Norway, stumbles down the path of dhimmitude by doing exactly what Denmark will not.
How can one support the Danes in their critical fight for freedom of expression? Easily: Contact the major American media outlets and ask them to publicly get behind the Danes. Urge them to defend the Jillyand-Posten's right to free expression as vigorously as they once defended the same rights of Andres Serrano.
Did not see to many mass protest over this...
this is merly an example if i had more time i could find more........
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amnesia
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
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From: Doha, London, Tokyo, Shanghai
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Hugs and kisses to everyone from Qatar.
Ita7ido ya 3arab wa ya Muslimeen, al '3aba2 hunaa la yu:9arin.
@green, dont you get it? Thats CHRISTIANITY! If they dont care thats up to them. But Muslims do. Stop comparing yourself to a different religion, different culture and different ideology.
I'm tired of the west trying to give the east their brand of democracy, sealed with a kiss of capitalism.
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[ This Message was edited by: amnesia on 2006-02-09 22:20 ] |
PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
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From: The Ummah
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To the non-muslims this is just a cartoon and that is because they don't really know this man at all. Here is a brief outline of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) for those who don't really know him that well.
You may be an atheist or an agnostic or you may belong to any of the religious denominations that exist in the world today. You may have been a Communist or a believer in democracy and freedom. No matter what you are, and no matter what your religious and political beliefs, personal and social habits happen to be— YOU STILL MUST KNOW THIS MAN!
He was by far the most remarkable man that ever set foot on this earth. He preached a religion, founded a state, built a nation, laid down a moral code, initiated numberless social and political reforms, established a dynamic and powerful society to practice and represent his teachings, and he revolutionized the worlds of human thought and human action for all time.
His name was Muhammad (peace and blessings of Almighty Creator be upon him)—and he accomplished all these wonders in the unbelievably short span of twenty-three years.
Muhammad (pbuh) was born in Arabia in 570 CE, and when he died at the age of 63, the whole of the Arabian Peninsula had changes from paganism and idol worship to the worship of One God; from tribal quarrels and wars to national solidarity and cohesion; from drunkenness and debauchery to sobriety and piety; from lawlessness and anarchy to disciplined living; from utter moral bankruptcy to the highest standards of moral excellence. Human history has never known such a complete transformation of a people or a place before or since.
The Encyclopedia Britannica calls him "the most successful of all religious personalities of the world." Bernard Shaw said, "if Muhammad (pbuh) were alive today, he would succeed in solving all those problems which threaten to destroy human civilization in our times." Thomas Carlysle was amazed as to how one man, single-handedly, could weld warring tribes and wandering Bedouins into a most powerful and civilized nation in less than two decades. Napoleon and Gandhi never tired of dreaming of a society along the lines established by this man in Arabia fourteen centuries ago.
Indeed no other human being ever accomplished so much, in such diverse fields of human thought and behavior, in so limited a space of time, as did Muhammad (pbuh). He was a religious teacher, a social reformer, a moral guide, a political thinker, a military genius, an administrative colossus, a faithful friend, a wonderful companion, a devoted husband, a loving father—all in one. No other man in history ever excelled or equaled him in any of these difficult departments of life.
The world has had its share of great personalities. But these were one-sided figures who distinguished themselves in but one or two fields, such as religious thought or military leadership. None of the other great leaders of the world ever combined within himself so many different qualities to such an amazing level of perfection as did Muhammad (pbuh).
The lives and teachings of other great personalities of the world are shrouded in the mist of time. There is so much speculation about the time and the place of their birth, the mode and style of their life, the nature and detail of their teachings and the degree and measure of their success or failure that it is impossible for humanity today to reconstruct accurately and precisely the lives and teachings of those men.
Not so this man Muhammad (pbuh). Not only was he born in the fullest blaze of recorded history, but every detail of his private and public life, of his actions and utterances, has been accurately documented and faithfully preserved to our day. The authenticity of the information so preserved is vouched for not only by faithful followers but also by unbiased critics and open-minded scholars.
For more info on The Holy Prophet (pbuh) please visit This Site.
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GreenKronic
Joined: Oct 08, 2005
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From: Tampa,Fl
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@PeterKay Not only was he born in the fullest blaze of recorded history, but every detail of his private and public life, of his actions and utterances, has been accurately documented and faithfully preserved to our day. The authenticity of the information so preserved is vouched for not only by faithful followers but also by unbiased critics and open-minded scholars.
So someone just followed him around his whole life documenting everything that happend???????
Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
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amnesia
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
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the people around him were forced to memorize everything but the Quraan was unwritten. it was all by memory.
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GreenKronic
Joined: Oct 08, 2005
Posts: 1
From: Tampa,Fl
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Even better...Dont get me mixxed up I am only trying to understand where you are coming from in no way am i or will i look down on your religon even if i dont agree....
How long did Mohammad live for??????Why where these people forced to memorize everything????If they where forced to memorize this stuff what happend if they didnt???????Isnt islam all about peace?????Please help me out here...And please dont think i am picking the religon apart i am just trying to undersatnd | |
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Posted: 2006-02-09 20:28
