Posted by Ewok
Does anyone know what the hell they are playing at on o2? I know that setting delivery reports to on on my K700 fails to work on o2 just like everyone else. What I want to know is WHY?!?!?!?!
is it a SE specific issue or have o2 just blocked it to disguise the fact that half their texts never actually get through? (yes I know about typing *0# but quite frankly I shouldnt have to). I think its a SE specific issue because im sure a guy at work has a nokia on o2 and has delivery reports.
Posted by dave_uk
No, it's not an
specific issue. It happens on all handsets, and is a network issue. Why? Who knows!
Posted by Sammy_boy
Yep, for some reason O2 have decided not to implement delivery reports, except for the *0# trick.
I suspect that using delivery reports costs networks a small amount of money, as it involves sending either a text or message back to the sender, and O2 have decided not to spend this small amount on something that is actually quite a useful feature, skinflints!
Posted by Ewok
well yes it is quite a useful feature when texts vanish into thin air like several have over the last few days (from my o2 online to my gfs o2 online payg).
that pretty much settles it then. o2 is getting dumped the second my contract is up, no SE online update service, no delivery reports........screw that!
its gonna be orange or voda im afraid, who customize their phones to crap but at least they provide a full service.
Although it seems I just use my old 7210 with my o2 sim in it, to send a text to myself with delivery reports set to on, and I have received a delivery report saying pending!! but when the text arrives i didnt get one saying delivered. However I did get a report back which is more than I get out of my k700 without using the code.
Also the delivery reports using the *0# hack arent proper delivery reports. they come through as proper texts and you dont get one saying pending when you first sent it like in proper delivery reports (so you at least know the network received it properly).
has anyone complained about it and actually got a response?
[ This Message was edited by: Ewok on 2005-01-17 16:14 ]
Posted by govigov
Why dont they just charge for delivery report? They do that here. Hence my sms option asks for the status option b4 sending.
Posted by janahan
@Ewok
That "message pending" delivery report is NOT a delivery report. All Nokia Phones (and i think Samsungs) will automatically add a pending message when the message is sent and delivery reports are enabled. This has nothing to do with the operator.
SE also has the Pending state too its part of the status....
Posted by Ewok
so the pending thing is completely useless and is added by the phone not the network hmmmm didnt know that one. I was in the understanding that the pending means the network has received the text and is holding it awaiting delivery.
Heres the reply i got from o2 about it, ill let you guys disect it hehe
"Thank you for your enquiry.
O2-UK do support the use of Delivery Reports for text messaging. However, this is something that is supported directly on the network and not via the handset menus. As handsets are manufactured for worldwide use, some of the ‘behind the scenes coding’ on the handsets do not interact fully with the messaging technology on O2-UK. After investigation shortly after the release of the SMS service on the GSM network in 1997 we found that the delivery reports that were being requested by the handsets were returning false data. When interacting with the network , the request was being returned from the messaging platform saying “Delivered”, but in essence this meant that the message had been delivered to the platform and not the destination mobile. The solutions for this were either to a) request that phone manufacturers coded their phones to be compatible with our network messaging technology, b) replace the messaging technology on the network or c) develop a coding protocol ourselves. As Options A & B were either impractical or carried high expense, O2-UK developed a delivery report system that is built directly into the text message, rather than an ad-on request by the phone.
If you type *0# at the beginning of the text message the network will send a text message back to you once the recipient has received the message (not read the message).
The text message will contain:
The mobile number that the text message was delivered to.
Date and time of receipt.
The first few characters of the message
Hopefully this answers your enquiry."
I submitted a reply basically saying I've heard of no such problems on any handset on any other network, so either all the other networks have taken a better approach, or theres a proper standard for these reports developed since 1997 and the other networks are all using this.
[ This Message was edited by: Ewok on 2005-01-18 14:56 ]
Posted by Sammy_boy
Sounds like O2 aren't using a standard system for text messaging then, they have their own system! Interesting....
Posted by Ewok
reply to my response...
"Although the handset standards have been updated, the core network technology remains the same on O2-UK. Whilst the network has increased it’s capacity to handle the demand, the messaging system has remained more or less untouched.
The *0# code does take 3 characters off the total of a message. Most handsets now do offer an ‘Extended’ SMS which allows you to link multiple messages together increasing the standard character count from 160 onwards.
With regards to other networks and their approach to messaging technology, unfortunately we are not in a position to comment as we have no access to their network systems or setup information."
Basically admitting they are using outdated technology for messaging which goes back to 1997 and this is the reason for the lack of delivery reports, and more than likely also the vanishing texts.
Posted by janahan
@ ewok
> The *0# code does take 3 characters off the total of a
> message. Most handsets now do offer an ‘Extended’
> SMS which allows you to link multiple messages
> together increasing the standard character count from
> 160 onwards.
except, using *0# does NOT work with long messages. because the way the long message is coded in EMS form.
I find this all suprising, because it seems that T-Mobile must use the same TYPE of server that O2 uses, for you can use *0# on T-Mobile(one2one) too, and in the early days, that was the "recommended" way of getting a delivery report, because some phones of the time (early ericssons/motorola) didnt support the delivery report mechanism in-built into the phone (indeed, when it started on T-Mobile in 1997, only the Nokia 8146 supported delivery reports on the phone.
Bah, typical. Thank god i am not an O2 user.
Posted by peanut
*0# does work with long messages and EMS, I do it all the time with no issues aside from the first few letters of your message are not what you typed.
The code is a GSM thing from way way back and in fact the 1997 date that is in the O2 reply above is a bit misleading as you were able to use it before then, Cellnet had text before 1997... for some of us.
I used to use the *0# on orange way back in 1995 because their delivery reports were flakey to say the least.
Posted by csi_bha
AFAIK Only Vodafone provide true delivery reports, in the same way only Vodafone in the UK can you get the local area code displayed on your mobile under the operator logo.
Posted by Ewok
shame vodaphone charge extortionate prices and customize their phones to complete crap. otherwise id be with them.
interesting that it seems tmobile use the same system, gonna reply to this guy again
Posted by govigov
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Posted by Ewok
right lets see what they say to this
With regards to your original reply
"O2-UK do support the use of Delivery Reports for text messaging. However, this is something that is supported directly on the network and not via the handset menus. As handsets are manufactured for worldwide use, some of the ‘behind the scenes coding’ on the handsets do not interact fully with the messaging technology on O2-UK. After investigation shortly after the release of the SMS service on the GSM network in 1997 we found that the delivery reports that were being requested by the handsets were returning false data. When interacting with the network , the request was being returned from the messaging platform saying “Delivered”, but in essence this meant that the message had been delivered to the platform and not the destination mobile. The solutions for this were either to a) request that phone manufacturers coded their phones to be compatible with our network messaging technology, b) replace the messaging technology on the network or c) develop a coding protocol ourselves. As Options A & B were either impractical or carried high expense, O2-UK developed a delivery report system that is built directly into the text message, rather than an ad-on request by the phone."
The *0# code was not developed by o2 in 1997, for a start it can be used on T-Mobile(and when it was one2one) and since you admit yourself in the previous reply, that you have no knowledge of other networks systems, I can safely assume this was not something that o2(BTCellnet) sold to One2One at the time, therefore it is a common system and not something o2 ever developed for themselves. The original reason for this was that some early phones did not support the delivery reports built into the phone (early ericssons and motorola). Infact when it started in 1997 only the nokia 8146 supported delivery reports on the phone, hence the need for this code at the time. The same *0# code was used as far back as 1995 on the Orange network.
Also judging by whats just been shown on Watchdog, the same strange/old sms system/setup that o2 have is maybe whats causing the K700 and S700 problems.
I believe there are 2 possibilities. 1: o2 are just so far behind that they havent bothered to set up proper delivery reports because the sms system literally hasnt been touched in almost a decade other than additional capacity, or 2: o2 have purposefully not set it up because making it easy for people to get delivery reports on all their texts would put more load on the systems and cost a little more for o2.
ave some of that!
Posted by mwarner
I always found it odd that O2 could not do delivery reports correctly, dut now I know why! A very useful series of posts.
Having dissed O2, I have to say that the lack of delivery reports is more than made up for the lack of horrendous customisation of the phone most other networks insist on giving us! O2 also have great online deals too (with 500 free texts per month), which is one of the main reasons I have stayed with them.
Mind you, if I had a Voda or Orange phone I would just use DaVinci and remove all the foul customisations anyway. I did it for my O2 K700 just to get an updated formware and remove the O2 icon in the main menu
Posted by hlchoo
does anyone know whether we will get charged for the delivery report? thanks!
Posted by darrengf
To Make It Easier for everyone to understand here i go.
Orange do a delivery report on all tarrifs, If you are on PAYG and a non Animal Tarriff then the report is free. Animal Tarrifs are charged at 1p a time.
No other networks charge for the delivery report.
O2 uses a older system of sending sms and this is why you dont get a report without typing in *0#
All the other networks updated the sms platforms to incorparte the delivery reports.
And the answer will 02 upgarde. currenlty no. The sms works so why mess with something that isnt faulty.
Hope this all makes sense.
Posted by dcuk
Delivery reports are not chargeable as it's not a SMS sent to you, it's more like an acknowledging 'ping' (in computer terms) or tiny signal that bounces back,
I'm guessing they just need to update their systems but it would take a lot of doing to implement a new system while the old one is handling all the messages and do a handshake as they switch over,
you can't just switch a new one on and the old one off, imagine all the lost messages and angry customers (well maybe they could on New years eve at midnight when most message systems seem to collapse under the strain after all who would know! lol
(kiddin)
I think they will get there eventually with SMS as an example MMS delivery reports are working on O2.
Posted by dcuk
Hey darrengf,
I didn't know you were typing an answer, I should have waited.
Posted by darrengf
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Hey no probs lol
But just make you all aware Delivery Reports are Chargeable on orange animal Tarrifs. Orange is the only network that charge for the privilage.
If you are not on an Animal Tarrif, you are not affected.
Hope this helps
Posted by mozinga
How long would it take for 02 to upgrade there sms server thing? I was thinking they could do a free texxt day like they once did a free call day and then at a peak time do what they have to do, surely they're too busy on Ney Years Eve?
Posted by Miss UK
I don't see what the point is in reports its just another way to pry into ppl, I mean send a txt to someone they get it they dont reply back big deal.
This message was posted from a K750i
Posted by Sammy_boy
I find it useful often, as my wife works shifts and often has her phone off, it means I know when she's turned her phone on and recieved a text message, for example when she's on her break or turning her phone on to come home. I don't use them all the time, just when I want to know if a text's been recieved or not
Posted by dcuk
Hey mozinga,
I was joking about doing the switch over on New years eve, I did type "(kiddin)" just underneath.