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New phone, k850 or k810 ? |
number1
Joined: Sep 12, 2007
Posts: > 500
From: UK,kent,Sittingbourne
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On 2008-01-15 02:20:32, sadeghi85 wrote:
If a good camera is good for its image quality, then K810i has a better camera.
same sensor size + more megapixels = worse image quality
[ This Message was edited by: sadeghi85 on 2008-01-15 01:28 ]
well done for understanding, your only one in this thread apart from me who hasn't said the k850i has a better camera, it acutally has a worse camera, the k810i image quality can even be upgraded for free, theres loads of drivers for it in the software section, the k850i & k810i screens hardware wise are exactly the same. but yes the k850i is better at some things like the mediaplayer, little bit faster internet,better screen
better sound,better video recording, but's it's really not worth all the extra money.
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ocean21
Joined: Nov 30, 2007
Posts: 217
From: Singapore
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although the sound is rather soft, k810 can be greater than a walkman phone that using megabass, just set the equalizer |
plankgatan
Joined: May 20, 2007
Posts: > 500
From: Sweden fur alle
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he he he....i dont know by yours k810, but my k810 take much worse indoor, low light, night & flash pics then my k850 and like everyone know k850 needs a better optimized camera software to get ALL outdoor pics good....so to say that k810 have a better camera is bullshit.
[ This Message was edited by: plankgatan on 2008-01-15 12:29 ] |
sadeghi85
Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 341
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Well, first consider that all we say here will have direct effect on buyers decision. i never said that K850i is bad. sure it has better mediaplayer, video recording etc etc. overall it's better than K810i, but for me it's not worth the extra money(as Number1 said).
considering camera alone, K810i has a better camera. if you want your K810i take better indoor, low light, etc etc, just go to Software section, read related threads, choose a camdriver. i prefer to read 200 pages to have a better camera rather than pay extra money to have a worse one.
"k850 needs a better optimized camera software"? indeed, but  should first release a firmware to solve previous firmware issues 
all i want to say is a camera is not better than the other just because of its more megapixels, sure there are some other factors, light sensor, flash strength, sensor type, but at least sensor size is better measure than megapixels to choose a camera, or better, number of pixels per square inch, if anyone needs a NUMBER to compare cameras(in this measure, lower is better).
you need a practical real life example? well, see this:
Why is F50fd praised by DPReview but hated by owners?
read dpreview fujifilm forum to see other examples.
[ This Message was edited by: sadeghi85 on 2008-01-15 22:51 ] |
number1
Joined: Sep 12, 2007
Posts: > 500
From: UK,kent,Sittingbourne
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i wish the k850i's camera was just a software problem that could be fixed then i could buy the phone but it's not, it's all hardware related the tiny sensor is over loaded with too many megapixels creating grainy noisy images, it's not just the k850 all 5megapixel camera phones are rubbish,
N95, pics suffer from over saturation & over post processing by firmware
lg viewty, horrible grainy like k850i,
g800i, pics are yellowish
g600i,pics too blueish,
this explains the too many megapixels in a small sensor thing
http://www.6mpixel.org/en |
sadeghi85
Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 341
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Thanks number1, that has been discussed already:
Megapixel myth busted
but some people don't (want to) learn. i don't know why.
[ This Message was edited by: sadeghi85 on 2008-01-15 22:52 ] |
abbafan1972
Joined: Jan 05, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: Birmingham, UK
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I have had my K810i since August and have to say I like it and would be happy to keep it for the duration (it depends what models are available when I come to upgrade, lol). The build quality seems good. I was a bit worried about the joystick, but if you keep it free of dust then it should be ok.
I like the rubberised back and the camera lens doesn't come open at will.
Buttons are nicely spaced out for texting.
Music player is good quality, although missing some functions of the Walkman branded players, I find the sound quality is better. My previous phone the W810i, used to crash occasionally when using the Walkman player.
I love my K810i and with a 2GB M2 it's even better!
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kenoby
Joined: Dec 17, 2007
Posts: 407
From: 404
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@ sadeghi and number1, After reading your comments I went to read abit about it and this is what I found:
Active Pixel Sensors (CMOS, JFET LBCAST) versus CCD Sensors
Similar to an array of buckets collecting rain water, digital camera sensors consist of an array of "pixels" collecting photons, the minute energy packets of which light consists. The number of photons collected in each pixel is converted into an electrical charge by the photodiode. This charge is then converted into a voltage, amplified, and converted to a digital value via the analog to digital converter, so that the camera can process the values into the final digital image.
In CCD (Charge-Coupled Device) sensors, the pixel measurements are processed sequentially by circuitry surrounding the sensor, while in APS (Active Pixel Sensors) the pixel measurements are processed simultaneously by circuitry within the sensor pixels and on the sensor itself. Capturing images with CCD and APS sensors is similar to image generation on CRT and LCD monitors respectively.
The most common type of APS is the CMOS (Complementary Metal Oxide Semiconductor) sensor. CMOS sensors were initially used in low-end cameras but recent improvements have made them more and more popular in high-end cameras such as the Canon EOS D60 and 10D. Moreover, CMOS sensors are faster, smaller, and cheaper because they are more integrated (which makes them also more power-efficient), and are manufactured in existing computer chip plants. The earlier mentioned Foveon sensors are also based on CMOS technology. Nikon's new JFET LBCAST sensor is an APS using JFET (Junction Field Effect Transistor) instead of CMOS transistors.
See also Sensor Sizes, Effective Pixels, Pixels, and Pixel Quality.
This article is written by Vincent Bockaert,
author of The 123 of digital imaging Interactive Learning Suite
Click here to visit 123di.com
Then there are also examples of cameras, which sensors they are using:
Implementation Examples
Below is a list of a few digital cameras (as examples) and their sensor size.
Camera Sensor Type Pixel count Sensor size
Konika Minolta DiMAGE Xg 1/2.7" CCD 3.3 million 5.3 x 4.0 mm
PowerShot S500 1/1.8" CCD 5.0 million 7.2 x 5.3 mm
Nikon Coolpix 8800 2/3" CCD 8.0 million 8.8 x 6.6 mm
Olympus C-8080 Wide Zoom 2/3" CCD 8.0 million 8.8 x 6.6 mm
Sony DSC-828 2/3" CCD 8.0 million 8.8 x 6.6 mm
Konica Minolta Dimage A2 2/3" CCD 8.0 million 8.8 x 6.6 mm
Nikon D70s CCD 6.1 million 23.7 x 15.7 mm
Nikon D2X CMOS 12.2 million 23.7 x 15.7 mm
Kodak DSC-14n CMOS 13.8 million 36 x 24 mm
Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II CMOS 16.6 million 36 x 24 mm
See also Sensors, Effective Pixels, Pixels, and Pixel Quality.
This article is written by Vincent Bockaert,
author of The 123 of digital imaging Interactive Learning Suite
Click here to visit 123di.com
Article ©1998-2008 Vincent Bockaert and dpreview.com
I am not an expert on DI and I would like to understand why are most of aknowledged camera manufacturers using CMOS in their high px cameras if it is that bad. In average I consider K850i a good compact cam replacement and I haven't regret it till now.
Sorry for going off topic and a messy post, I wanted to gather up the relevant data. |
wap123
Joined: Nov 04, 2006
Posts: 190
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In my personal opinion, I'd go with the k810 or wait til SE brings out something better.
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razec
Joined: Aug 20, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: Mars
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On 2008-01-16 03:19:21, wap123 wrote:
In my personal opinion, I'd go with the k810 or wait til SE brings out something better.
For modding K810 is better, camera design front: K810, image quality K810 because there was no nasty glass cover like in K850 and of course K810 is more durable  K850 casing is a joke for K-series
10 years at Esato |
BobaFett
Joined: Jan 06, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Kamino (wish it would be Lund)
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what i dont really get is, why are all those specs and deatils so important at a mobile fone cam? honestly, if sy wants quality pix and the one should get a digi cam. these cam mp fight are a bit pointless imo, k810 or k850 etc these are ok for fun pix and of course, u can compare those among each other, thats fine, but dont forget, that there are differences also among the same models, so it could be, that a k800 makes a "better2 pic then k850, under certain enviroments. these devices are still sold as fones with cam feature and not the opposite ( fortunately ) and to be honest, i doubt, that a fone cam will ever have the same quality like a digi cam. ok, maybe in some years will have some more developed mobile fone cams, but still, it would remind on the hifi towers, where the real profis have separated the radio, cd etc cos if i would take a cam as my main foto device, i would go crazy, if i couldnt make calls, cos my cam went wrong and i have to send it to the service... so discussions about which is "better" or "worth" are sometimes interesting to read, but s i see pointless...
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kenoby
Joined: Dec 17, 2007
Posts: 407
From: 404
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I agree with you boba. I know I throw unnecessary data here, I do not care either. I just wanted to understand why is usually so much slamming with tech data over K850i. These were just some collected data in which is clear who is using what for which mpx and an argument from a reliable author that CMOS is good.
K850i does make very good photos for a cam phone.
Is it matter of CMOS, CCD or whatever is what is discussed many times in many threads. Many users here say K850i is not a good camera phone as long as it has CMOS sensor. ????
Whatever it is, it makes good photos. I suggest thread starter should go for the one that will fit his budget. |
sadeghi85
Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 341
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@kenoby:
see this
K810i also has a CMOS sensor.
@BobaFett:
Ok, i agree with you, my post was just a reply to plankgatan's comment. i think if we inform people about the reality, then we can expect to produce much better camphones quality-wise. other brands can go for 7MPs or alike, but a high quality 3MP camera is better for us. somewhere you wrote increasing MP was the only amazing thing :s: had past years, that is amazing?
On 2008-01-16 03:25:36, BobaFett wrote:
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i doubt, that a fone cam will ever have the same quality like a digi cam. ok, maybe in some years will have some more developed mobile fone cams, but still, it would remind on the hifi towers, where the real profis have separated the radio, cd etc cos if i would take a cam as my main foto device, i would go crazy, if i couldnt make calls, cos my cam went wrong and i have to send it to the service...
Ok, that has been discussed already:
8MP Phones Threaten Digital Cameras
this is off-topic now, if anyone interested we can continue on threads i have linked.
[ This Message was edited by: sadeghi85 on 2008-01-16 04:06 ] |
BobaFett
Joined: Jan 06, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Kamino (wish it would be Lund)
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sorry to confuse both of u, my opnion was ment generally, without the thought to point on anybody here, i tried to post here a kind of personal conclusion according this and other threads
i am really not a big se fan, but ( and at lesat to leave here my opinion which to take ) if it is, i rather take k810, more of the design and good usage. a comfy keypad is more important for me as the cam or other fun feature
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markztrance
Joined: Nov 18, 2006
Posts: 137
From: Dagupan, Philippines
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try this
hehe  | |
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Access the forum with a mobile phone via esato.mobi
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Posted: 2008-01-15 11:38
