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At exactly what point did we abandon reason for MADNESS? |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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On 2006-05-26 19:41:31, Luke-the-magic-man wrote:
What do you mean appauling?
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I mean i think it's bad, awful, terrible, not good, negative, etc.
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He is what I would call a valued member of staff, he reports the news and gives his opinion,
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Let him give his opinion and let him report the news, do we have to have paranoid bias along with it?
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i think thouse are to very important qualities in any thread. You should really think allot harder about what he does. Yeh he posts allot about politics, didums. At least he gives his option at the matter of hand rather then the posters, I have no idea why you " dislike: him so much, it doesnt seem to make much sense to me, but prehaps youd like to give a go at presenting a opinion at the matter of hand rather then that of everyone else.
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It doesn't make much sense to you that I should dislike someone who posts complete nonsense that is not only full of errors and half truths, but is also actually rather vile at times?
As for my opinion, read through some of the threads and you will find my opinion.
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You say his options are biased - well duh! Its called mediation its like the matrix and its all around you, not even the bloody bbc reports a storey without it, every singe thing you read or see has been mediated so the audience will take a certain viewpoint on the article at hand. If you cant deal with it then post your own topic on the same subject but using a differnet view point?
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Bias isn't actually mediation, mediation involves compromise, which implies a level of objectivity.
It is perfectly possible to discuss a subject without being overly biased. Even if one does wish to put one's personal opinion into a post then one should not present it as fact. One should also not misprepsesent the truth. Surely that's something a 'news editor' wouldn't do?
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC | |
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haynesycop
Joined: Mar 10, 2004
Posts: > 500
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It wouldn't have mattered how you phrased it, this is the consequence of any thread along these type's of lines. So i would not worry!
You have the right to post a thread like this but they cannot be treated with respect and maturity by some people, thats life though.
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fatreg
Joined: Jul 26, 2003
Posts: > 500
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check you out miss c.....
fatreg
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PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: The Ummah
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Well said Miss C
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WelshTom
Joined: May 20, 2004
Posts: 364
From: Costa del Cardiff Phone: K610i
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First and foremost i do not agree with the personal nature this thread has taken on.
I do however believe that this thread highlights the very reason that prehaps less political & religous threads should be made. The point i was trying to make earlier is that these threads seem to divide esato and cause arguements like this and bring out the worst in people at times. e.g. the racist comments people have referred to (although i must admit i have not seen these).
I would be happier if everyone just got on 
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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On 2006-05-26 19:41:45, dealer3 wrote:
wow...
scot...whats wrong? what happened to you?
i thought you liked giving your opinion...you were prolly one of the biggest contributors to those threads...
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I enjoy discusison and debate, I don't enjoy seeing overly biased and paranoid theories paraded as the truth and served up as if Esato where some sort of extremist political forum.
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its sad, you have resorted to slander, why and over what, i have no idea...
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Slander is the spoken word, libel is the written word. At any rate both involve damaging someone's reputation and to be quite frank I don't think I could do as much damage to anyone's repuation as an insane fantasy about an American Holocaust against Muslims.
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talking bout free speech...your saying threads related to politics/religion should be kept to a minimum, and then you say, 'we' dont like it when you say things...no one has ever said to you, dont speak, dont post...we debate, talk, give our opinion, not tell each other to stop thinking and go to another planet...in discussing ideas, we are trying to come to mutual understandings and educate ourselves on matters...
whats the problem...
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The concept of a free and fair discusison goes out the window when actual reasoned debate is called for. When proof of a claim is requested it appears that the 'discusison' suddenly becomes anything but rational.
There is no real discusison between certain politicisers, there is tacit compliance in posting invective opinion that is masqueraed as the truth and draped in emotional hyperbole.
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if you have no intrest, if you dont like the threads, dont read them, is that too hard?
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I have an interest in seeing such biased ranting and demagoguery put to an end. I also have an interest in seeing the return of actual political debate instead of the armchair led crusades that we see at the moment.
_________________
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2006-09-26 04:51 ] |
axxxr
Joined: Mar 21, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Londinium
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On 2006-05-26 20:05:04, scotsboyuk wrote:
You are a demagogue, plain and simple. You use this forum as your own private soapbox and you get upset when people challenge you on your views. You hide behind freedom of speech, but you care nothing for actual discussion or the truth. You are only interested in disseminating your own awful and maligned view of the world, not actual debate or objective reasoning.
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yeh whatever scotsboyuk...my soapbox,thats a new one...could'nt you think of anything better to say? .. my my you need help!! 
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On 2006-05-26 20:05:04, scotsboyuk wrote:
Look what I have to work with.
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I pity you old boy!
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On 2006-05-26 20:05:04, scotsboyuk wrote:
I have asked you on several occassions to provide evidence to back up your views, you have singularly failed to do so. You present your views as fact, you spread conspiracy theories as if they were concrete, yet you will not or cannot provide substantiating proof of such claims.
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I will provide evidence where its possible to do so...and if i feel right its necessary..I feel with you even i do provide evidence you find something to challenge it because its coming from me!....
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On 2006-05-26 20:05:04, scotsboyuk wrote:
I don't normally use infantile responses so you will have to help me out here; is this the part where I say \"No you are!\"?
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Your getting sadder by the minute....
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On 2006-05-26 20:05:04, scotsboyuk wrote:
Good for you.
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Im not full of hate the way you are...you portray yourself as this all perfect ,Peacefull ,fair and balanced yet you a are quick to say you dislike me!
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On 2006-05-26 20:05:04, scotsboyuk wrote:
Another one ... okay \" No you are!\" (It's rather easy when you get going actually )
There would be no need for anyone to criticise you as they do or to scrutinise your posts so much if you would simply refrain from spreading such awful invectives and actually back up your posts with solid evidence.
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Childish to the extreme! 
Mate i will say what i want to say and if you dont agree with my opinions you have a right to do so...but dont tell me what to do!
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On 2006-05-26 20:05:04, scotsboyuk wrote:
So I do or don't object to your news posts? Since you seem know my opinion on them I would appreciate you informing me of it.
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You object to every political/religious thread i post....your opinion is only that im talking nonsense....move on matey your boring me now!
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On 2006-05-26 20:05:04, scotsboyuk wrote:
Now that really hurt!
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see your cold as a fish!
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On 2006-05-26 20:05:04, scotsboyuk wrote:
One would hope that you wouldn't have to be told ...
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Only by you unfortunately,....don't know why you have so much hate in you...carefull it may consume you!
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On 2006-05-26 20:05:04, scotsboyuk wrote:
Apparently you are. You were the one who publicly announced you were leaving Esato when some people said things you didn't like. You were the one upset over not being included in my interview thread.
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Yes i did at one time...thats because i cared about what members thought of me..and if the majority were not happy with me it would be wise for me to go.... I would'nt stay where i was'nt wanted believe me....Thats because you were trying to exclude me from it..and i had to remind you.
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On 2006-05-26 20:05:04, scotsboyuk wrote:
The only support you require are the sleeves of a straighjacket.
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Sarcasm won't get you anywhere!
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On 2006-05-26 20:05:04, scotsboyuk wrote:
At you? Always.
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Its funny because most of us are laughing at you here making a fool out of yourself!
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On 2006-05-26 20:05:04, scotsboyuk wrote:
You don't seem to realie that a biased post full of invective and bile is still going to illicit a response fom people. Cutting down the number of them isn't going to make much difference to the content. You were the one asking me what you should do and I gave you my advice, you seem to have chosen to ignore that, which makes me wonder why you bothered asking in the first place.
Believe me, you provide more than enough reasons for me to criticise you than I ever could.
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Like i said i will post what i think is right and give my opinions and views,then its upto members to add their views...A healthy forum should encourage all types of debate and that attracts people.
You can criticise me all you like...and i will do what i have to do!
[addsig] |
Sammy_boy
Joined: Mar 31, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Staffordshire, United Kingdom
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On 2006-05-26 20:20:34, WelshTom wrote:
First and foremost i do not agree with the personal nature this thread has taken on.
I do however believe that this thread highlights the very reason that prehaps less political & religous threads should be made. The point i was trying to make earlier is that these threads seem to divide esato and cause arguements like this and bring out the worst in people at times. e.g. the racist comments people have referred to (although i must admit i have not seen these).
I would be happier if everyone just got on
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Agreed there, I don't like how this thread has gone, just wondering what kind of monster i have unleashed here! 
"All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke
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Luke-the-magic-man
Joined: May 31, 2005
Posts: > 500
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On 2006-05-26 20:14:35, scotsboyuk wrote:
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He is what I would call a valued member of staff, he reports the news and gives his opinion,
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Let him give his opinion and let him report the news, do we have to have paranoid bias along with it?
Wheres the paranoid Bias about it? I really dont see it
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i think thouse are to very important qualities in any thread. You should really think allot harder about what he does. Yeh he posts allot about politics, didums. At least he gives his option at the matter of hand rather then the posters, I have no idea why you " dislike: him so much, it doesnt seem to make much sense to me, but prehaps youd like to give a go at presenting a opinion at the matter of hand rather then that of everyone else.
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It doesn't make much sense to you that I should dislike someone who posts complete nonsense that is not only full of errors and half truths, but is also actually rather vile at times?
No in your opinion he is "vile" and no it doesnt make any sense to why would dislike someone who reports the news as acuratly and best to their knolage as possible allong with their opion
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You say his options are biased - well duh! Its called mediation its like the matrix and its all around you, not even the bloody bbc reports a storey without it, every singe thing you read or see has been mediated so the audience will take a certain viewpoint on the article at hand. If you cant deal with it then post your own topic on the same subject but using a differnet view point?
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Bias isn't actually mediation, mediation involves compromise, which implies a level of objectivity.
It is perfectly possible to discuss a subject without being overly biased. Even if one does wish to put one's personal opinion into a post then one should not present it as fact. One should also not misprepsesent the truth. Surely that's something a 'news editor' wouldn't do?
Unforchantly your wrong here, as a media studies student we are taught what mediation is wrong, now if you want to take that up with my lectures feel free.
And I honnestly dont think its possible to to report without bias, try to find me an example and I garanttee there will be a way in which it will be mediated.
Also id like to say sorry to sammy here as I think I have contributed little to the actual thread at hand, so my appoligies there.
also scooty if you feel we must continue this il be online later and we can discuss axxxr along with what is and isnt correct for esato and their members, but for the time being im off out
_________________
for sale - iPods, Mp3 Players, Phones, Headphones you name it I got it
[ This Message was edited by: Luke-the-magic-man on 2006-05-26 20:11 ]
[ This Message was edited by: laffen on 2006-05-28 22:48 ] |
amnesia
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Doha, London, Tokyo, Shanghai
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I'll give a few examples.
http://www.esato.com/board/vi[....]ic=56022&start=465#post1342777
I know in that thread you are asking a question, but it seems to promote conflict. I see a simple answer to that question. They are simply not true Muslims or misguided.
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The subject of the Danish Cartoons.
I don't understand why respect can't go hand in hand with freedom of speech.
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http://www.esato.com/board/vi[....]c=97289&start=45#post1327914'
In the topic, sean commented on terrorist acts being committed by Muslims in general. After I pointed out the difference, he DID correct himself. But imagine if I didn't? There are those that believe what they read, even if it is incorrect.
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http://www.esato.com/board/viewtopic.php?topic=115714#post1575182
Here is an example where we also laugh and are not always serious.
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http://www.esato.com/board/vi[....]ic=116911&start=30#post1593566
no comment
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http://www.esato.com/board/vi[....]opic=53389&start=30#post697362
Apparantly this person thinks
if you are an Arab or Muslim state you are not free....
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http://www.esato.com/board/vi[....]opic=22978&start=45#post306686
Exampls of how some believe that terrorists represent Islam.
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http://www.esato.com/board/vi[....]opic=67315&start=30#post880950
Person not understanding Islam and then commenting as fact.
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http://www.esato.com/board/viewtopic.php?topic=79387#post1065499
Saudi wants to ban mobile porn. People say it's blocking freedom...
Israel blocks porn.. why don't people jump on them?
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Perhaps a religious and political section could be made where people could argue and debate FACT rather than OPINION.
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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On 2006-05-26 20:27:12, axxxr wrote:
yeh whatever scotsboyuk...my soapbox,thats a new one...could'nt you think of anything better to say? .. my my you need help!!
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A general nonsensical reply including a repition of the comment; indicative of a lack of ability to reply with anything remotely approaching witty.
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I pity you old boy!
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Yes well I can understand why, there used to be some really good fencers here on Esato. Unfortunately all I have left to work with is the likes of you. How depressing.
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I will provide evidence where its possible to do so...
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You mean whenever you don't just make something up?
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and if i feel right its necessary..
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i.e. you have evidence to provide.
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I feel with you even i do provide evidence you find something to challenge it because its coming from me!....
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You provide evidence and I will look at it. I will point out its flaws and and its merits, just as I do with my own evidence.
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Your getting sadder by the minute....
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Well reading your posts does have a depressive effect.
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Im not full of hate the way you are...
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No rampant anti-Americanism, anti-Israelism, vile theories about a Holocaust, those sort of thing aren't hate filled at all.
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you portray yourself as this all perfect ,Peacefull ,fair and balanced yet you a are quick to say you dislike me!
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I don't portray myself as anything of the sort, perhaps you are seeing that because such values are alien to you? I have many many many faults, one of which is being an extremely pompous gasbag who likes to wax lyrical to anyone who will listen.
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Childish to the extreme!
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So you see calling for rational and reasoned debate as childish? I suppose that explains a lot!
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Mate i will say what i want to say and if you dont agree with my opinions you have a right to do so...but dont tell me what to do!
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Then why ask me what to do? You are the one who came to me for advice. As I said, you shouldn't need someone to tell you what to do, you should be grown up enough to realise what to do for yourself.
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You object to every political/religious thread i post....
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I asked about news posts, not politico-religious threads. You see how those are different words?
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your opinion is only that im talking nonsense....move on matey your boring me now!
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... and yet you keep replying!
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see your cold as a fish!
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... and this is off the cuff?!
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Only by you unfortunately,....don't know why you have so much hate in you...carefull it may consume you!
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Now come come, you're not so unwitty or desperately poor at replying that you need to resort such a bland response. Requote that comment in your next reply and have another go.
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Yes i did at one time...thats because i cared about what members thought of me..and if the majority were not happy with me it would be wise for me to go.... I would'nt stay where i was'nt wanted believe me....Thats because you were trying to exclude me from it..and i had to remind you.
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So a few people calling you names causes you to create a fuss over leaving? If names do that I dread to think what sticks and stones would do!
So I was trying to exclude you from it and to do that I included you?
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Sarcasm won't get you anywhere!
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You thought that was sarcasm? (That's sarcasm.)
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Its funny because most of us are laughing at you here making a fool out of yourself!
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So you are bored, but laughing? It might be worth keeping this thread going to see just how irrational and illogical you can get.
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Like i said i will post what i think is right and give my opinions and views,then its upto members to add their views...A healthy forum should encourage all types of debate and that attracts people.
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The last time I checked antagonistic bile directed towards certain countries and wild irrational theories concerning mass murder weren't top of the list of reasons people join forums.
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You can criticise me all you like...
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I already do.
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and i will do what i have to do!
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You may do what you think you have to do, but I doubt you will do what you actually should do.
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
axxxr
Joined: Mar 21, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Londinium
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Scotsboyuk your have proven beyond doubt that your complete idiot...and any respect that you had you have completely and utterly lost today.
I have more important work to do on Esato than to converse with the likes of you...So I'll be signing off now and leave you in your pathetic little world!
[addsig] |
amnesia
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Doha, London, Tokyo, Shanghai
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@scots, I think this is going to be a cycle of 'it's my opinion, so be quiet'
Best thing to do is if you request proof, then to provide proof.
Many people said that Iraq was a consipiracy before it happend.
Many people said the Twin towers falling down the way it did was a consipiracy as well.
Why wait until it's too late to talk about an issue.
But that's changing the subject.
I guess it would be better if everybody clearly stated what their opinion was by saying' THIS IS MY OPINION or THIS IS FACT *insert link here*
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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On 2006-05-26 20:31:14, Luke-the-magic-man wrote:
Wheres the paranoid Bias about it? I really dont see it
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He seems to think people are plotting against him. He also thinks that America is planning to initiate a Holocaust like genocide against Muslims. That's two examples.
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No in your opinion he is "vile" and no it doesnt make any sense to why would dislike someone who reports the news as acuratly and best to their knolage as possible allong with their opion
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So you don't think that generalising against a whole people is vile? You don't think ideas such as accusing people of planning mass murder are vile?
His new reports have nothing to do with why people object to him, it's his invictive political posts that do that.
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Unforchantly your wrong here, as a media studies student we are taught what mediation is wrong, now if you want to take that up with my lectures feel free.
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The dictionary definition of mediation:
1. The act of mediating; intervention.
2. The state of being mediated.
3. Law. An attempt to bring about a peaceful settlement or compromise between disputants through the objective intervention of a neutral party.
Mediation, in the strict sense of the word does not implicitly imply bias. On the contrary, mediate, from the Latin root of 'mediare', meaning to place in the middle, does imply a cognent recognition of more than one point of view with the goal of reaching an agreement between two parties. Perhaps the bastardisation of the English language has resulted in the meaning of the word being co-opted for a technical specificality, but the word itself does not imply bias as it is used in everyday uage or understood in common parlance and thus one would have to wonder about the co-option of such a word to that effect as in essence the word becomes antipodal.
If you are meaning the editorial policy then one wonders why you are mentioning it all since the news reports axxxr makes are not what are being discussed here. Rather, as has been stated before, it is his political invective, which comes in for criticism. Now I was under the impresion that Esato held no political views, but you seem to know axxxr better than I do, are you saying that axxxr's is implementing an editorial policy with regards to his political posts? If that is the case then I have severely misunderestimated the severity of the situation.
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And I honnestly dont think its possible to to report without bias, try to find me an example and I garanttee there will be a way in which it will be mediated.
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I said 'discuss', not 'report'. It is perfectly possible to discuss an issue in an objective manner if one chooses to do so.
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Also id like to say sorry to sammy here as I think I have contributed little to the actual thread at hand, so my appoligies there.
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You have contributed your opinion of the situation and given your views, that is all anyone can do in this thread.
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also scooty if you feel we must continue this il be online later and we can discuss axxxr along with what is and isnt correct for esato and their members, but for the time being im off out
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Super, I'll look forward to that. You would be best sending me a private message and I can give you my Windows Live messenger details, it's much easier to have a discussion that way than through a thread.
_________________
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2006-09-26 05:01 ] |
slattery69
Joined: Jan 03, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: north east england
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thats exactly what i said a few pages back . if people are expressing a personal opinion they should make sure its writtn that its there opinion. if they are trying to present fact provide evidence.
to often and yes soory to say axxr you are guilty of this as are many others (myself included) people presnt there opinion as if it were fact which it aint.
we have to remember that esato is a multi cultural and multi language forum and as such people may get the wrong end of the stick if its not spelled out
as an aside and this isnt picking on axxxr but i do think when he posts he should have a normal avator for his non news stuff that way theres no confusion over his views been either part of his news round up or part of esatos view point, but actually his own view point.
i also think this would be better for members as its not been seen with his esato aviator but a normal one and we can all see that its non esato related.
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Posted: 2006-05-26 20:14
