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A bluetooth enabled crimewave |
Glenny
Joined: Feb 26, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: Mars
PM, WWW
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or there could be 1, but that could be anywhere i suppose, its very clover, it shows crooks are clever, which is quite scary
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etaab
Joined: Jan 23, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: UK - South Yorkshire
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Even if the thief were to detect a laptop in one of ten parked cars, it would still make it quicker for the thief to steal something quickly. Instead of having to look in every car in the car park, he could just look in the ten or however many there are within 10m of himself. And lets face it, how many people do you think hide their valuables inside their cars ? not many.
Also, just because a PDA or laptop is switched off, it doesnt automatically mean that the Bluetooth wont be detectable. In fact, in many devices other than mobile phones, this is the case.
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dave_uk
Joined: Mar 06, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: London, UK
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I think this a load of rubbish, because:
1) How the hell would te police know anyway. Picture the conversation,
"So, how did you know that there was a laptop in that car that you broke into?"
"Well, actually, me and all my pikey mates use the Bluetooth on our phones to scan for devices unwittingly left on by innocent yuppies."
Somehow, I doubt it...
2) If you switch off a laptop (by which I mean turn off the power, as I would think most laptop users would know) then it will NOT be discoverable. It's not rocket science. The reason the same does not apply to PDAs and Smartphones (at least the HTC ones) is that when you turn them off, you don't actually turn off the radio element, just the PDA - the phone is still in standby, and so BT would still be detectable.
3) Admittedly, I am not a thief who hangs around waiting to break into people's cars, but, given that some (probably most?) laptops have a BT range of 100m, how is this method actually going to work?? You do a scan and realise that there are 10 laptops, left unattended and switched on by their owners (which is fairly unlikely to start with) within 100m of you in your chosen Aldi car park. Where do you start?!
So, anyway, I think that's a fairly compelling argument not to believe everything you read! 
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rajasekharan_v
Joined: Apr 23, 2005
Posts: 211
From: Kerala..Now in Thiruvananthapu
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how do you steal it?... i mean the laptop...?...totally confusing...with the blue tooth you can only transmit the datas to a laptop..not retrieve the info from laptop....correct me if i am wrong...
K750i My Preciousssssssssss!!!! |
gelfen
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Melbourne, Australia
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well....i guess you could smash the car window, lean in, and pick it up 
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rajasekharan_v
Joined: Apr 23, 2005
Posts: 211
From: Kerala..Now in Thiruvananthapu
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yeah..thats a good way ...
K750i My Preciousssssssssss!!!! |
gelfen
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Melbourne, Australia
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better still if you can jimmy the car lock open and not have to leave smashed glass everywhere
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bogdan_wrc
Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 206
From: Ploiesti, Romania
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@rajasekharan_v
not really! you can take folders,or files with your phone from your laptop through :bt: or even, if paired you can "steal" (- not necessary with beholder's approval )folders!
tried it myself!!-only with  ...no NOKIA can do that!
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Don't drive faster than your Guardian Angel can fly!
[ This Message was edited by: bogdan_wrc on 2005-06-21 09:33 ] |
Pradhika
Joined: Jan 11, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: India
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This criminal technology grows alongwith other fields. Awareness can only help the preventive measures.
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etaab
Joined: Jan 23, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: UK - South Yorkshire
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On 2005-06-21 00:50:19, dave_uk wrote:
I think this a load of rubbish, because:
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Its possible the thief explained how, or the Police were told so from local informers who snitch on their thieving counterparts.
Its also possible the Police figured out what was going on from watching CCTV footage of thieves mysteriously knowing which cars to break into, and which not. Its not rocket science as you say, to piece two and two together, especially when the thief is walking around carrying a mobile phone - and almost using it as a sort of metal detector.
Its also worth pointing out that whether people turn their laptops off or not keeps the Bluetooth active probably does not compare to the amount of people who keep their laptops on standby rather than off, so the Bluetooth would remain active. I often find Bluetooth laptops on Bluetooth searches when out in the street. If i look around, i usually see someone in a suit with a laptop bag, obviously the laptop must be theirs.
The actual range of the Bluetooth laptop is irrelevant. Bluetooth relies on two way communication, so only laptops could be discovered 100m away if the phone had 100m range Bluetooth aswel. So, if a thief were to find a 100m range laptop, it would only show up on his 10m range Bluetooth phone when he goes within or around 10m of it - not 100m.
This way of committing crime is very believable if you know a little about Bluetooth - and i know my local Police force use Bluetooth heavily, since ive seen the officers with headsets and Bluetooth phones. 
Check me out on Instagram ! search for etaab ! |
dave_uk
Joined: Mar 06, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: London, UK
PM |
Apparently, etaab, you don't know as much about Bluetooth as you think. Part of what got me thinking about this is the fact that when I worked at CPW HQ, if I scanned for devices using SMan, I could detect laptops and desktops that were 50m+ from where I was sitting.
Therefore, whatever else you might conjure up about ways in which the police may have worked it out (incidentally, it would take some more intuitive police than I've come into contact with to watch a CCTV camera and deduce that the car thieves were in fact Bluetooth criminals, more likely to be a new form of Happy Slapping, a Happy Robbing if you will tne fact remains that most of these sorts of crimes are opportunistic and as you have pointed out, there are a number of coincidences that would have to occur for this BlueCarJacking to be of any use to a potential thief.
And as for equating the use of Bluetooth Headsets by police (and most car drivers!) with an understanding of how it could be used to commit crime in this way, I am flabbergasted if you think that there is any relationship.
Hence, my original sentiments that I reckon it's rubbish!
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etaab
Joined: Jan 23, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: UK - South Yorkshire
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I reckon i know far more about the limits and possibilities of Bluetooth than you. Just because you worked at CPW, does not mean you know what you're talking about. In fact, like most CPW staff, you're actually talking BS.
Its you that conjured up the idea that a thief could detect a laptop 100m away. From that range, any phone with 10m range would not pick it up without help from a secondary device or by using one of the techniques i'll outline for you.
Only when the phone gets closer (usually standard Bluetooth range extends slightly further than 10m, sometimes as far as 30m if you're lucky) would it pick up the laptop.
However, every phone has a sweetspot, where the range extends even further. Its easy to think of the Bluetooth signal as a perfect sphere that extends equally in all three dimensional directions. The truth is, a Bluetooth signal is actually elliptical. So, in some directions it is around 10m, and in another direction it can go much further.
You can even bounce a Bluetooth signal off a solid wall and extend your phones range - which is very possible in an office environment.
I assume your P900 with Sman found devices because of the sweetspot. Ive had similar success myself with my old K700i - i once bluejacked a S700i at a range of about 50m. I was shocked it worked.
As for the Police, you obviously do not personally know any. Also, assuming that the police are retards who wouldnt know what Bluetooth can do is simply being narrow minded. Police officers are normal people just like everyone else in the world - why shouldnt they know just as much about Bluetooth as everyone who has posted in this thread ?
The fact is, the police do know about Bluetooth related crimes. In fact, my local police station has their own website, and forum which ive posted on in the past where people have discussed Bluetooth related crimes.
If you're going to say something, at least be informed of facts rather than simply believing that everyone is a complete technophobe.
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[ This Message was edited by: etaab on 2005-06-21 21:58 ] |
sailaab
Joined: May 19, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: India
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Guys ! Phew ! ! Without trying to sound diplomatic, I think everyone is partly correct.
Dave, it (story) does have its blindspots. But as Etaab said, its a cool crime.
Ultimately, ALL our assumptions is but- hypothesis. And mine says, these ARE talented people. Maybe misdirected enuf to flick laptops, need to enlighten us too..
Edit:
Somebody ask em to post here- How the heck they managed it? Rite car, Rite time, Rite Range ! !
[ This Message was edited by: sailaab on 2005-06-21 23:00 ] |
etaab
Joined: Jan 23, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: UK - South Yorkshire
PM |
I should think this sort of crime is fairly easy.
Any idiot with a Bluetooth phone can perform a search. All he needs to do is be in the right parking lot (such as an offices parking lot) and have luck that someone will have left a Bluetooth device switched on.
I might give this a try - except i wont actually steal anything. 
Check me out on Instagram ! search for etaab ! |
dave_uk
Joined: Mar 06, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: London, UK
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Well, well....just been away for awhile but had to answer this:
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On 2005-06-21 22:58:19, etaab wrote:
I reckon i know far more about the limits and possibilities of Bluetooth than you. Just because you worked at CPW, does not mean you know what you're talking about. In fact, like most CPW staff, you're actually talking BS.
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Yes, well maybe you do and maybe you don't. The fact that I am using demonstrable examples that are leading you to contradict yourself would suggest the latter. I don't think I claimed that I know about Bluetooth because "I've worked at CPW" and how many non-CPW shop staff have you come into contact with anyway? As I believe you yourself said:
"If you're going to say something, at least be informed of facts..."
Any reason why you're so knowledgeable?
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Its you that conjured up the idea that a thief could detect a laptop 100m away. From that range, any phone with 10m range would not pick it up without help from a secondary device or by using one of the techniques i'll outline for you.
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Nope, as I said, I didn't conjure up anything, I actually did it, which is much more substantial than spouting rhetoric passed off as fact.
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Only when the phone gets closer (usually standard Bluetooth range extends slightly further than 10m, sometimes as far as 30m if you're lucky) would it pick up the laptop.
However, every phone has a sweetspot, where the range extends even further. Its easy to think of the Bluetooth signal as a perfect sphere that extends equally in all three dimensional directions. The truth is, a Bluetooth signal is actually elliptical. So, in some directions it is around 10m, and in another direction it can go much further.
You can even bounce a Bluetooth signal off a solid wall and extend your phones range - which is very possible in an office environment.
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This is all very interesting (actually it really is) but nonetheless you have now decided that the range of a BT phone is no longer 10m (as in your previous post) but can be increased to 30m. Your credibility is disappearing...
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I assume your P900 with Sman found devices because of the sweetspot. Ive had similar success myself with my old K700i - i once bluejacked a S700i at a range of about 50m. I was shocked it worked.
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Ok, now it's 50m - why not? Are you trying to prove my point?
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As for the Police, you obviously do not personally know any. Also, assuming that the police are retards who wouldnt know what Bluetooth can do is simply being narrow minded. Police officers are normal people just like everyone else in the world - why shouldnt they know just as much about Bluetooth as everyone who has posted in this thread ?
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You're right - I tend not to count too many police officers as friends. I don't find it conducive to avoiding their attention! However, I wouldn't (and didn't) suggest that they were retards - simply that the average police officer probably has less technical mobile knowledge than the average Esato user. Why shouldn't they know as much about Bluetooth as everyone who has posted on this thread? Because this is a forum generally populated by people with more than an average layman's knowledge of mobile phones, whereas I don't believe that is a prerequisite to be in the Police force (from what I've seen on The Bill of course! )
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The fact is, the police do know about Bluetooth related crimes. In fact, my local police station has their own website, and forum which ive posted on in the past where people have discussed Bluetooth related crimes.
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Fair enough - that was a fairly small part of my argument, and I wasn't insinuating that nobody within the Police force has any knowledge, but that PC Plod is probably not on the lookout for people BlueJacking laptops whereas he would notice your local telephone box being smashed in! Also, I can't imagine there's a particularly long list of Bluetooth crimes, now are there?
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If you're going to say something, at least be informed of facts rather than simply believing that everyone is a complete technophobe.
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I absolutely agree, which is why I don't BS and claim to know things and pass them off as fact when in fact I don't. You will notice that most of the points you have picked up on, I did not assert were true - there are question marks all over my original post. You are actually interpreting what I wrote with your own poetic licence and are incorrect. So all I can say to that, really, is right back at you!
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Posted: 2005-06-20 17:12
