Posted by skblakee
With all the troubles these two companies have been facing it seems that both or one could possibly go under completely. Just this week we saw Nokia announce another round of job cuts this time 10,000 will be going. RIM is very quiet while Samsung, Sony and HTC have all announced the release of their flag ,models and Apple apparently gearing up for their own release of the iPhone in the fall. Can either of these two companies survive in today's environment and revive to their former glories or will one or the other survive.
When the latest product from RIM comes out it will be facing stiff competition not only from the other companies but also at a time the next iPhone will be hitting the shelves. Can they make headway in such an environment?
On Nokia's end their Lumia brand phones have not been doing as well as they hoped and now they are bleeding cash fast. What hopes are there for them?
Posted by Tsepz_GP
IMO
RIM have a better chance of surviving, 3 reasons:
1. BlackBerry Messenger (BBM)
2. BIS/BES
3. Encrypted data.
BlackBerrys are still a force to be reconed with in the corporate space, the security of their OS and data is super tight, many companies still buy BBs for their employees and use BES.
There's also BBM coupled with BIS at a flat monthly rate which has become huge in many countries including the UK and emerging markets in South America and Africa, which makes access to the internet and social networks cheap.
All RIM need is a fleet of well specd BBs with e.g. large hi-res displays for their flagships, a well specd slide QWERTY like the 9810 Torch but with better camera , battery and UI. They have the basics there.
Nokia on the other hand im not so sure about, Microsoft should just buy them out of their misery.
Nokia's credit rating just recently got downgraded to Junk status by Moody's:
http://www.asianage.com/busin[....]-credit-rating-junk-status-399
And apparently Microsoft did want to buy them until they saw Nokia's books:
http://thenextweb.com/insider[....]-but-walked-away-the-register/
They need to slowdown on all the Camera stuff and work on something the masses actually want to buy, but it seems they are cutting down on R&D to so its a tough one.
Posted by etaab
My money would be on Nokia.
Nokia simply have a better CEO who can more than likely guide them through troubled times. They've made the right decision going with Windows Phone rather than Symbian / Meego, which still makes me sad, but it was the right choice in the end. Back then Nokia didnt have the right people to make Meego happen.
I think it'll take Nokia a year or two to gain some ground back. They're more likely to lose ground in the coming 12 months and if job cuts are necessary then so be it. WP will need a couple of years to gain ground from Android and iOS.
Personally i dont like Blackberry phones. I dont think RIM will go out of business, but i think they do need to stick to the corporate market and do what they're best at.
Posted by Bonovox
Easily Nokia. And as for Lumia they are currently selling really well in the US. The 900 topped the charts
_________________
Material things don't matter,but Rock n Roll does!!!!
Sony Xperia U
[ This Message was edited by: Bonovox on 2012-06-17 22:54 ]
Posted by hihihans
Not easy but yes, nokia has to work hard and have the support of microsoft now.
Posted by Shino03
IMHO, Nokia should consider other OSs aside from windows phone or better release windows phone 8 as soon as possible. Their flagship today, the Nokia 900, is just below the competition when it comes to specs. The lumia 900 is at its best on par only with the one-year old Xperia Arc. Also, their's a very big cash difference between the two. I, as a consumer will not pay more if I could get it cheaper.
[ This Message was edited by: Shino03 on 2012-06-18 04:16 ]
Posted by razec
I don't even think Nokia's CEO Stephen Elop is as good as his predecessor, Symbian could've been Android's fiercest rival if he put his attention to the platform during its early times when it is still deemed as a strong platform. He could've corrected the mistakes that Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo did when it spearheaded the launch of S60 5th by injecting more funds to accelerate the development of Symbian ^3 for them to catch up or even outperform the android 2.1 Eclair which is still not that capable. note that Symbian ^3 was launched 2010 when Android 2.2 Froyo is rare and 2.1 Eclair is still at large.
[ This Message was edited by: razec on 2012-06-18 08:12 ]
Posted by Bonovox
What worries me is what Elop said recently. He said they are going to really concentrate on their S40 platform. I know they are popular in emerging markets but seriously Nokia why?? Smartphones is where its at now.
Posted by Tsepz_GP
^ exactly why ive lost confidence in them. In the Q1 financial report Elop even admitted to the fact that Android was beginning to eat away at even S40's marketshare, that should have raised alarm bells that they need to begin pushing super cheap smartphones based on Symbian or WP OR both!
We are now getting to a point where the top hardware of late 2010 in Android has trickled down to the cheapest Androids you can get e.g. the Xperia Mini, its got the same hardware as a Desire HD which was a top phone in late 2010. Budget Androids are now capable of encoding and decoding HD720p media, have DLNA, play great "HD" games, decent cameras, and they have access to over 200,000 apps and games, to the average user THAT is value for money, and Nokia are just not getting it.
Posted by razec
Putting Elop as the CEO of Nokia was the biggest mistake of the company, he destroyed Nokia deep within. If Nokia decided to join the Android race long before, then the 808 we knew today would've never use Symbian and would've pack the best hardware that Nokia could throw at it. And it's surely going to trounce every single smartphone we know right now.
Posted by Bonovox
Yes if Nokia went Android they'd perhaps be as big or bigger than Samsung are now. Their Lumia 800 & 900 are great but not mind blowing. The 710 has been a fair success for it's good specs for low price. But also what worries me is two other things. Why are they releasing crap like the Lumia 610 making Windows even more restricted. And why are they so slow in releasing their new Windows phones?? I was expecting a huge influx from Nokia. I still like many of their handsets but am starting to worry. Their Lumia 900 is a success in US and some northern European countries but it's not enough I don't think
Posted by xelibry
Neither Nokia or RIM
Posted by djin
Both will survive. This world is big enough for both of them..
Posted by razec
Well Motorola did manage to make a comeback after Android's ray of hope shined upon them. but in the case of Nokia, WP at it's current form can hardly save the company from it's further free fall until it becomes a "Motorola circa 2005~2009 v2.0" in terms of brand recognition and market share. RIM? apart from its attractive business-oriented technology, they'll continue to lose their market share to Android and IOS, but I think it'll stay.
Posted by Bonovox
Depends how well RIM's new BlackBerry 10 is received. Why is RIM just concentrating on mostly business consumers?? BB smartphones I see everywhere on the street in the hands of the average person.
Posted by Marly
On 2012-06-18 13:39:00, Bonovox wrote:
Why are they releasing crap like the Lumia 610 making Windows even more restricted.
Lol, I can reply with another quote from this same thread
:
On 2012-06-18 11:56:00, Bonovox wrote:
Smartphones is where its at now.
This is the purpose of the Tange (Refresh) update: making (WP) smartphones available to people who are not willing to pay hundreds of their hard earned bucks for a phone (or simply can't afford to do so). For this reason Nokia has the Lumia 610, Samsung the Omnia M and (on the android side) a bunch of cheap droids, and HTC the Wildfire (S).
All these cheap and chearful phones (on either WP or Android) have hardware restrictions, compared to the flagships, but they're sufficient for people who don't fiddle with their phones all day, but simply want a smartphone for email, internet and social networks. They sell well, even though they will never be appreciated on mobile phone forums, but, as we all know, forums don't represent the real world
On the topic of this thread: I hope both Nokia and RIM will survive, without them, the (smart)phone world would be less interesting and there would be less to choose for many of us, even though I personally won't buy a BlackBerry in the near future, but they're still very popular here in NL, not only among business users, but among teenagers aswell.
[ This Message was edited by: Marly on 2012-06-18 17:53 ]
Posted by Bonovox
No what I mean is Nokia did so well with the specs and low price with the 710. And the 610 is a low RAM 256 & 800mhz speeds. The speeds don't matter but that RAM does. What's the point in making a so called Windows smartphone but restricting what it can do putting in low RAM. It cannot run certain apps and reviews have said it is often laggy which is unheard of in Windows phones. I just don't see why Nokia would release something so useless. I loved the 800,900 & the 710. But going as low as the specs on the 610 was just plain daft. Many similar priced Android phones will have more RAM speed and specs. I just think it was a waste of money Nokia releasing it. Also to start competing Nokia seriously needs to start releasing their Windows devices faster and they need more high end ones too. There is not enough. They seem a bit slow. I still love Nokia don't get me wrong. Elop is confusing me saying we are concentrating on Windows now it's S40
He needs sacking sorry
_________________
Material things don't matter,but Rock n Roll does!!!!
Sony Xperia U
[ This Message was edited by: Bonovox on 2012-06-18 17:55 ]
Posted by Ranjith
A small doubt.
If NOKIA is really close to shutting shop,why don't they just jump the boat to Android?any reason they cant?Maybe produce both Androids and WINDOWS?
The HW is great,they just need Android!
Posted by Bonovox
They signed a deal with Microsoft that's why. And they ain't shutting up shop
Posted by etaab
They simply need to ride the storm what is the adoption of an OS in its early stages, Windows Phone.
Look at Android when devices ran versions older than Eclair, it was nowhere in the market. Two or three years on, and look at Android now.
I expect WP to do the same, Nokia just need to ride it out.
Posted by alenn
I am sad at what Nokia did.First,they released Maemo powered devices and then the Nokia N9.But even before release,Elop said that there's not gonna be any more support for MeeGo.
So,Maemo and MeeGo dead.And that's not it.Nokia released Ashas which were powered with Meltemi,a Symbian S40 touch alternative.And they apparently killed Meltemi too.Same for Symbian.I'm sad,very sad.
And no one had much luck with Microsoft.Elop became CEO in Macromedia just 3 months before the company bankrupted and was bought by Adobe.
I don't hate Lumias,but they better release something different,because all the windows phones now are different from each other by a few megapixels,screen size or resolution and a few buttons.I could buy a good WP Samsung aswell instead of Nokia..
Posted by razec
I think you guys would love to read Eldar's view on Nokia's future
http://mobile-review.com/articles/2012/birulki-176-en.shtml
^^ Some of his points reflected with what I have said previously on this thread, Nokia's downfall is worse than in
's 5 years ago.[ This Message was edited by: razec on 2012-06-27 09:57 ]
Posted by Dups!
My initial thoughts when this thread was started were that Nokia will not make it, but now after RIM's announcement of delaying their BB10 phones I am beginning to think that they are as good as dead.
All of a sudden Nokials chances look slightly better particularly after the Windows 8 unveiling.
Tragic for RIM as I am still going to get the N phone to replace my P1i next year when it comes out.
I wish I had a magic wand to save RIM... only for its QWERTY phones and a very promising BB10 OS.
Posted by Tsepz_GP
I have to agree Dups, when i read that i began to wonder if we will even have RIM come 2013.
Posted by skblakee
I have never been a big fan of RIMs offerings as I have always thought of them as old, difficult phones but with the popularity of BBM I think RIM will always a stand a chance of coming back. Waiting until 2013 when so many would have the latest iPhone during the holiday season and perhaps then looking to new offerings from Samsung and others only makes things worse for and I don't see how they can get to many sales then to make up.
Posted by fbloise
I put my money on Nokia... honestly, I own 15 shares of their stock
Posted by hibiskus
if RIM stops competing with apple and samsung and focus on bussiness models than yeah it might have a chance. Concerning Nokia, if M$ again dont allow customisation to manufacturers, than I dont see with what can Nokia stand out of a crowd?Pureview Win8 ok, but how many zeros it will cost?
Posted by cu015170
it all depends on Windows Phone 8.. by the looks of it Microsoft is going to go strong after corporate america, and if RIM loos the battle there, they are done.
Posted by Bonovox
I beleive RIM's reputation was severely damaged by their outage they priviously suffered. I see BB phones everywhere but I think that really did them damage.
Posted by michelletan
On 2012-06-18 13:39:00, Bonovox wrote:
Yes if Nokia went Android they'd perhaps be as big or bigger than Samsung are now. Their Lumia 800 & 900 are great but not mind blowing. The 710 has been a fair success for it's good specs for low price. But also what worries me is two other things. Why are they releasing crap like the Lumia 610 making Windows even more restricted. And why are they so slow in releasing their new Windows phones?? I was expecting a huge influx from Nokia. I still like many of their handsets but am starting to worry. Their Lumia 900 is a success in US and some northern European countries but it's not enough I don't think
Nokia was smart didnt go for android. For a fanboy android is actually dying.
No.1 due to fragmentation problem
No. 2 Google aquired Motorola it you notice Samsung Galaxy Nexus are getting updates first because its google. If Google focus their newer OS and updates what happen to other manufacturer like samsung, HTC and etc
No. 3 Too many competition until they running out of ideas like samsung voice command become S-voice , NFC becomes S-beam. Their competition are not only famous manufacturer but also china competition.
No. 4 A single core windowsphone can outbeat a dual core android. Just imagine a quad core WP vs a quad core android that will make android a joke with its constant lag.
No. 5 Android keep getting over price and over price example samsung galaxy SIII plastic and cheap casing with quad core cost of an iphone with nothing special.
For windows phone user they will notice the marketplace are getting more and more apps even famous apps are available including games and social app. The trend is same last time was symbian then become iphone then blackberry then android after ppl bored of android guess where will they switch?
[ This Message was edited by: michelletan on 2012-08-13 17:07 ]
Posted by skblakee
@ michelletan
What?
[ This Message was edited by: skblakee on 2012-08-13 19:19 ]
Posted by mamtaj
I own a lumia and I m loving it
.
Posted by hihihans
As long as RIM keeps making phones with a real keyboard they have a chance. They should also get rid of that ridiculous monthly fee.
Posted by Bonovox
@Michelletan, Android dying?? Huh,not right now it ain't