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some one from israel??? |
nyk_2702
Joined: Mar 29, 2002
Posts: 96
From: Lebanese/Palestinian-Living in
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U also said that the Terror campaign was a success..
Wasnt the main aim to dismantle the Al-Qaeda network and capture Osama Bin-Laden...
Did either of those 2 happen??
Look at the news..
1000's of Al-Qaeda are still all over the world...
Bin Laden is still alive and funding Hamas and other similar groups..
So did the war really go to the USA's plans??
 
Try better next time kid
[ This Message was edited by: nyk_2702 on 2002-04-11 01:20 ] | |
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dondori
Joined: Feb 12, 2002
Posts: 199
From: Toronto & Middle East
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all of this sounds to me like a business game betweem both parties, and one also big country behind it all, known as the mother country.
well from what it looks like, there will be no solution made ever. because this has been going on since 1948, untill now. So why would they stop. think about it, if u are gaining profit from ur business, them why stop it.
Therefore, the problem is not gonna solute itself, and no one is gonna solve, it is all a business campain for the benefit of the mother country, the one that rule all...........
again that is my opinion guys, nothing against anyone.
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nyk_2702
Joined: Mar 29, 2002
Posts: 96
From: Lebanese/Palestinian-Living in
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Ohh and about Arafat in Lebanon..
yeh when Sharon the maniac went into Lebanon to try and kill him.. and then after Arafat decided to leave Lebanon, Sharon decided to slaughter the Palestinians in Shatilla in Lebanon..
Ohh and about ur jewish Conspiracy crap..
If u r really defending urselves, how come
USA, Russia, the EU, the UN and Japan hav all warned Israel to withfraw NOW
And the EU considering economic sanctions against Israel..
Is that all part of the Jewish Conspiracy as well??
Wat is it Jews VS the rest of the world ?
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dondori
Joined: Feb 12, 2002
Posts: 199
From: Toronto & Middle East
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ya man agree about all of that u mentioned,
but cool down man this is not a political website...
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nyk_2702
Joined: Mar 29, 2002
Posts: 96
From: Lebanese/Palestinian-Living in
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Just another point which U didn't answer (probably coz u don't have any counter argument)..
Sharon and the Israelis say that the Hizbollah guerillas are 'Terrorists' rite?
Then how come wen Lebanon was Liberated BY HIZBOLLAH, did KOFI ANAN ( UN secretary General) meet with him in Lebanon to CONGRATULATE HIM.. Surely if he was a terrorist then he would hav been arrested????
Or does this all fall in line with ur crap about the Jewish Conspiracy?
Wake up kid and look at the facts not at what ur Gov't says... |
dondori
Joined: Feb 12, 2002
Posts: 199
From: Toronto & Middle East
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yo man relax i am not gion againd u i never mentioned any thing about a jewish conspiracy, i am form the land of palestine myself, all i said was thath this is a business between the US and Israel
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nyk_2702
Joined: Mar 29, 2002
Posts: 96
From: Lebanese/Palestinian-Living in
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Sorry Dondori that wasn't aimed at You it was aimed at Calvin...
Im from Palestine as well
That argument was NOT aimed at you
[ This Message was edited by: nyk_2702 on 2002-04-11 21:56 ] |
arroyootje
Joined: Feb 01, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: UK-Belgium-Azerbaijan
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On 2002-04-11 02:17, nyk_2702 wrote:
Sorry Dondori that wasn't aimed at You it was aimed at Calvin...
im from Palestine as well
That argument was aimed at you
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man, you're the one that seems to have a conspiracy of some kind, look at the way you're reacting...CALM DOWN!!! Take a chill pill! I don't think you are a fine example to set for Palestine. If the rest of Palestine reacts the way you do, then no wonder there is war!
Take your T68 and play a game or something!
PEACE TO EVERYONE, ANY RELIGION, ANY RACE, ANY PHONE, hihi  |
calvin0927
Joined: Mar 11, 2002
Posts: 135
From: Israel
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On 2002-04-11 01:15, nyk_2702 wrote:
What took U so long to reply...
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well, unlike some people, my main goal in life is not to check posts on forums every other second.
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Communiactions in Israel not that secure coz of Palestinians?
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nothing in israel is secure because of palestinians, since they specifically target women and children going about their everyday business. how can you protect yourself against animals using such barbaric tactics?
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Then why did Israel decide to withdraw its occupation in LEbanon?
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very simple: israeli public pressure. the majority of public opinion in israel was in favor of leaving the security zone in lebanon, and barak, seeing this, made it an election promise. that's one of the things that got him elected, and somewhat surprisingly (for a politician), he kept his promise.
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It left because of Hizbollah..
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haha, you wish. again, this is like the arab countries celebrating their "victory" over israel in the many wars that they started. it's like a kid that gets beat up by a bigger, stronger kid, and when that big kid walks away at the end of the fight and has his back turned, the one that got beat up sticks out his tongue and says "and don't come back!" (but not loud enough so that the other one will hear, of course it's called being a sore loser.
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U think that Israel wanted to leave?
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i don't think, i know. like i said, it's israeli public opinion that got barak elected on a campaign promise to leave lebanon, and israeli public opinion was massively in favor of this move.
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Just yesterday one of ur ppl ask Y Suicide bombers want to destroy ur 'peaceful and loving' economy. Thats a big load of crap. Israel is just the back-yard of the USA. It says jump, U jump, It says roll over.. U will. (or you dont get paid)..
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what people asked? what are you talking about? at least try to make a little sense, this ranting and raving isn't really helping your case.
as for the US, it is indeed israel's best friend in the world. when your friend asks you to do them a favor, you usually try to comply (and it works both ways). however, israel must look out, first and foremost, for its own interests and for the safety of its own civilians, as does every other country in the world. like now, for example--the US asked israel to get out of the territories, but that would be stupid (at least before the round-up of terrorists is complete), so we will not leave until we're done. we're doing far less than the US did in their war against terror in afghanistan, it's quite hypocritical of them to ask us to stop ours in the middle, but bush apparently doesn't hold up very well against european pressure...
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And u say that Palestinians dont deserve weapons..
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of course not, look at the horrible barbaric massacres they perpetrate with them.
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As for Hizbollah attacking Israel now... Thats really good
With his backing from other countries Israel will wake up from its little 'virtual world'... Because whilst the palestinians might not have the militarial equality, Hizbollah does..
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all the arab armies together don't have "military equality" (maybe in quantity, but definitely not in quality) with israel. and you think hizbolla does? haha, you're more deluded than i thought. all they have are katyusha rockets. they can cause some damage when they fire them into israeli cities close to the border into people's homes (if that's not terrorism, i don't know what is...), but they're not by any means a match for the israeli army. they're just thugs.
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[ This Message was edited by: laffen on 2002-04-11 03:58 ]
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i can only assume this means that obscenities were removed from your original post. not very surprising.
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U also said that the Terror campaign was a success..
Wasnt the main aim to dismantle the Al-Qaeda network and capture Osama Bin-Laden...
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i don't care what the declared goals were. the fact remains that life got MUCH better for the people of afghanistan (especially the women, who were treated like sub-human slime) after their barbaric repressive "government" was removed. for me, yes, that implies success. and whether some people are still alive or not, their capability of carrying out further attacks such as those of sept. 11th are--if not eliminated--then at least drastically reduced. you can never hope to COMPLETELY wipe out terrorism, only do your best to reduce it as much as possible, by damaging their terror infrastructure. this is precisely what israel is now doing as well.
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how come wen Lebanon was Liberated BY HIZBOLLAH, did KOFI ANAN ( UN secretary General) meet with him in Lebanon to CONGRATULATE HIM.. Surely if he was a terrorist then he would hav been arrested????
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huh? with whom did kofi annan supposedly meet? for your information, hizbolla is an organization, not a person. i never heard anything about annan meeting with anyone from hizbolla, let alone congratulating them (he did REPRIMAND them in a speech yesterday for going against UN resolutions, but i suppose you don't care about UN resolutions, unless they're directed against israel, right?). please provide a reference if you want anyone to believe this story. besides which, even if annan did meet with someone, the UN has no authority to arrest anyone.
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Ohh and about Arafat in Lebanon..
yeh when Sharon the maniac went into Lebanon to try and kill him.. and then after Arafat decided to leave Lebanon, Sharon decided to slaughter the Palestinians in Shatilla in Lebanon..
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ok, LET'S talk about arafat in lebanon. you say "when sharon went into lebanon...", and "after arafat decided to leave lebanon". ok, it appears you know nothing whatsoever about lebanon and what went on there, and in what order. well let me give you a very brief history lesson.
first of all, sabra and shatilla: israeli troops allowed the phalangists christian forces to enter sabra and shatilla (in 1982) to root out terrorist cells believed to be located there (and which had a well established history of training there). it had been estimated that there may have been up to 200 armed men in the camps working out of the countless bunkers built by the PLO over the years, and stocked with generous reserves of ammunition. when israeli soldiers ordered the phalangists out, they found hundreds dead (estimates range from 460 according to the lebanese police, to 700-800 as calculated by israeli intelligence). the dead, according to the lebanese account, included 35 women and children. The rest were men, of various nationalities, including: palestinians, lebanese, pakistanis, iranians, syrians and algerians (and included numerous known and wanted terrorists). the killings, which were perpetrated to avenge the murders of lebanese president bashir gemayel and 25 of his followers (killed in a bomb attack earlier that week), came on top of an estimated 95,000 deaths that had occurred during the civil war in lebanon from 1975-1982.
but you don't have to take my word for it, read directly--from a lebanese web site--what hundreds of eye witnesses to what occurred there have to say about it:
http://www.free-lebanon.com/LFPNews/Witnesses/witnesses.html
now, to get back to my original point, which you so conveniently avoided: what happened BEFORE israel went into lebanon in 1982??? do you know what your beloved arafat was doing to that country? seriously, look it up, you might find out a bit about damour, lebanon: in the massacre of the town of damour, south of beirut, a total of 582 christian civilians were slaughtered, along with numerous rapes of young girls, by forces that came from those same palestinian camps that you are defending, commanded by yassir arafat himself. and this happened in january 1976, long before "sharon went into lebanon". you can also look up the massacre of hundreds of christian civilians in the town of chekka, in northern lebanon, by arafat's forces, or of the towns of aintoura and mtein, where groups of palestinians murdered innocent civilians solely because they were christians. and of course, there were the daily assaults by the PLO forces against the christian towns of hadath, ain-el remmaneh, jisr el bacha, dekaouneh, beirut, and the southern metn, that resulted in hundreds of christian casualties, murdered for defending their hometowns and existence.
in fact, during arafat's reign of terror in lebanon, he and his PLO plunged the country into a dark period of massacres, rape, mutilation, and rampages of looting and killings. by the time arafat was ejected from lebanon, thanks to israel (he did NOT, as you put it, "decide to leave"!), out of a population of 3.2 million, some 40,000 or more people had been killed, 100,000 wounded, and 5,000 permanently maimed.
it's also interesting that few voices were raised in may 1985, when muslim militiamen (nabi berri's amal militia) attacked the shatilla and burj-el barajneh palestinian refugee camps. according to UN officials, 635 were killed and 2,500 wounded. during a two-year battle between the syrian-backed shiite amal militia and the PLO, more than 2,000, including many civilians, were reportedly killed. no outcry was directed at the PLO or the syrians and their allies over the slaughter. international reaction was also muted in october 1990 when syrian forces overran christian-controlled areas of lebanon. in the eight-hour clash, 700 christians were killed--the worst single battle of lebanon's civil war.
so, i think you can see why i find it so hypocritical that you seem so interested in seeing sharon punished for something he didn't even do, but admonish arafat and nabi berri and the syrians' massacres of tens of thousands of innocent civilians. i would REALLY like to hear how you explain this hypocrisy (and try it without the ranting and raving, this time...).
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pogie
Joined: Apr 01, 2002
Posts: 26
From: manila
PM, WWW
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i am not from israel, never been there.... but i am a citizen of this world. the only thing that i want is to end the war there. i am in no position to say or express my opinion, but for the sake of the innocent, let us stop fighting
[ This Message was edited by: pogie on 2002-04-11 12:08 ] |
calvin0927
Joined: Mar 11, 2002
Posts: 135
From: Israel
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On 2002-04-11 11:40, pogie wrote:
i am not from israel, never been there.... but i am a citizen of this world. the only thing that i want is to end the war there. i am in no position to say or express my opinion, but for the sake of the innocent, let us stop fighting
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believe me, that's all anyone here in israel wants. we were ready to give the palestinians essentially everything they were asking for at camp david, and all we asked for in return was peace, a cessation of terrorist attacks, and normal relations. it doesn't seem too much to ask for, does it? and yet, they refused--all we got in return was more terror and bloodshed... what are we to do????
[ This Message was edited by: calvin0927 on 2002-04-11 13:11 ] |
nyk_2702
Joined: Mar 29, 2002
Posts: 96
From: Lebanese/Palestinian-Living in
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[quote]
On 2002-04-11 13:10, calvin0927 wrote:
believe me, that's all anyone here in israel wants. we were ready to give the palestinians essentially everything they were asking for at camp david, and all we asked for in return was peace, a cessation of terrorist attacks, and normal relations. it doesn't seem too much to ask for, does it? and yet, they refused--all we got in return was more terror and bloodshed... what are we to do????
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Sonce the 'intifada' started how many Palestinians and how many Israeli's have died?
Were all the Palestinians killed 'terrorists' ? |
calvin0927
Joined: Mar 11, 2002
Posts: 135
From: Israel
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On 2002-04-11 13:33, nyk_2702 wrote:
Sonce the 'intifada' started how many Palestinians and how many Israeli's have died?
Were all the Palestinians killed 'terrorists' ?
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many have died on each side--i know it's around 500 israelis, and even more palestinians. and no, not all the palestinians killed were terrorists. however, on the israeli side, ALL were innocent civilians. the difference is that the palestinians specifically target innocent civilians, whereas israel targets those terrorists that kill innocent israelis. unfortunately, sometimes civilians get hurt also (during the US bombing of afghanistan, the UN reported that THOUSANDS of innocent civilians were killed...). the other difference is that when palestinian civilians are killed, israel always regrets this and people are actually saddened by such news in israel, whereas when palestinians hear that there was a suicide bombing that killed innocent israeli civilians, they go out into the streets to rejoice (as they did also after september 11).
interesting that you didn't answer any of my points in the previous post, concerning arafat etc.
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Zamarov
Joined: Jan 29, 2002
Posts: 89
From: Lebanon
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Hello everyone, This discussion has been really educational to me, I especially loved the part where Allexdos says:
“The Israelis deserve israel, they earned their state and it doesnt matter how they achieved it!”
Yes The end justifies the means, if someday someone’s land is taken from them their farms are turned into settlements By peaceful Israeli’s with their peaceful Bulldozers in their peaceful ways he shouldn’t act in the desperate way he does, he should go and make something out of himself, with what?????? U need to be somewhere and have something to do something with it.
Indeed the blacks were animals too when they asked for their freedom, and the Indians were animals when they fought for their freedom against the great empire, and since when are the acts of the US our guideline???? If they decided to destroy Afghanistan to reach to their precious oil in what used to be Russian states, does that mean everyone should do the same??? If it was only $3 Billion or the weapons or the Vito in every other occasion, what the hick r u people thinking of????
Yes they should buy a T68 no ,no, no better a T68i, who the hell gives a damn about a phone when u r not sure if will live till tomorrow.
Yes the poor Israelis r terrified, and to protect themselves they need to kill a few innocent civilians, well the Palestinians have been living in refugee camps since 1948 in conditions I hate to see my worst enemy in, who cared about them before they started fighting back, what do u guys suggest? Face to face combat with the Israeli tanks, or the Israeli army???? Who r u kidding?? There wasn’t a Palestine before 1960??? Where do u get your Info from??? It’s like saying there wasn’t red Indians before the English settlers named them!!!!!
NO my fellow humans (I’m addressing only humans not animals here) every human has the right to fight oppression, and injustice wherever it existed and in any form it may take, yes all the Arabs are envious of the great israeli state, they r so selfish they only think of what’s in the other’s hand, what a retched race!!!!!!! Wake up people your charade is up, u r no longer looked upon as an innocent state fighting for its existence u r the aggressor and u will not kill the strive for freedom, even if u end up killing all the Palestinians, others will come and u will live in fear each and every moment in your life because u know u r doing something wrong and living a lie to an extent that u have believed it!!!!!!!!
How long will it take 100 years a 1000 years nothing lasts forever and the day will come when the world is not a forest where the strong eat the weak and humanity will understand that we have to accept each other whether we like it or not. And the only animals around are those who believe they r surrounded by animals coz they looking upon their reflection…………………………
May peace come on those who make peace
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nyk_2702
Joined: Mar 29, 2002
Posts: 96
From: Lebanese/Palestinian-Living in
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Where does Israel get its Bullets and tanks from? USA
If Israel wasn't supported by the USA, then it wouldn't exist..
Israel's economy would be non-existent if the USA didn't support them..
About ur points with arafat..
Y did Israel enter Lebanon again?
If it was to only get Arafat then why did it stay there for 20 years?
ohh and ur point about the UN condemning Hizbollah for attackiing Israel...
Hizbollah leader Hasan Naser-Allah has said that as long as Israel continues its Occupation, they will continue striking..
Arafat mite be a criminal but he is just as big a criminal as Sharon..
Sharon was convicted in Belgium.. He is guilty...
Go look it up and you will see..
ohh and one more point..
When has the Israeli government EVER apologised for their killings of Palestinian civilians... Never..
Wat channel do u watch? Dreamers TV ?
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Posted: 2002-04-11 01:19
