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Author Nokia reaffirms commitment to Symbian platform
false_morel
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Posted: 2010-11-12 00:55
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Tsepz_GP,

you probably can't discuss teh two operating systems on the technical level, as you totally ignored this aspect, so lets leave this out at the moment..
Symbian is awaiting some major upgrades starting January next year that could shuffle the whole comparison up anyway..

As to the numbers you're basing you're relying on, only one Symbian^3 phone was released at teh end of Q3, others to follow starting Q4!
S60 Fifth Edition (latest Symbian version before the Symbian^3) based phones were first released two years ago by now!! First was 5800 XpressMusic released on November 27, 2008, while in 2010 only two phones were released: Vivaz and the C6-00! Despite that, Symbian held its spot firmly.

Now, consider the fresh start with Symbian^3, and the new phones flooding as of Q1 2011 and we shall compare those numbers then..

But even before that, just one quarter to go, and we'll have the total numbers for 2010. The year labeled as Android's year and the year Symbian dies in!
We shall see where those two would end up at the end of this transitional year..
snoFlake
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Posted: 2010-11-12 01:48
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Sooo what are these new "Symbian"(Artist formerly known as S^3/S^4)" devices that will be flooding the market other than the C6-01, C7, E7, and probable X.x something. There's nobody other than Nokia releasing devices on Symbian (for a good reason) and arguably with the advent of the new Nokia paradigm actually Symbian as a meaningful OS at a user level no longer exists.

There are no devices other than the ARM11 exS^3 devices to come in the next few months and Nokia are stuck trying to patch up the UI until...... or they get a Meego device out (eventually) meanwhile Honeycomb is out..............
Tsepz_GP
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Posted: 2010-11-12 02:01
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False morel
Tell me this, does the technical aspect REALY matter to the consumer? You can go on about it as much as you want, but is it realy what the average joe (who are the millions buying these) realy care?
All that talk of the updates is pretty much like the man sitting bedside telling his wife what he's going to do aka all talk, Android is making moves RIGHT NOW, there are a bunch of models e.g. the DesireHD, Galaxy-S replacement, the next Nexus, Motorola Droid 2, HTC G2 etc... all flooding the market, RIGHT NOW, updates coming in RIGHT NOW, Gingerbread is right around the corner etc...its not like Android is just sitting around, in the time its taking the Symbian^3 updates to come , Android will have ALREADY made major updates to an already excellent UI.
Vivaz and C6 werent the only ones released in 2010, the 5233, E5, C5, X6-8GB, X6-16GB, E73 for USA, 6700slide, Vivaz, Vivaz Pro etc... now between Q3 2009 and Q3 2010 (which is what the figures are based on!) There are even more on top of that such as the X6-32gb, 5230, E72, 5800-Navigation Edition etc... ALL were and are much cheaper/less expensive than some of the best selling Androids such as the Galaxy-S which has ALREADY managed 3million units JUST IN THE USA , now consider the many more mid-end Androids coming in now. i respect your optimisim guys but Android is quickly catching up no matter which way you try to twist it.
[ This Message was edited by: Tsepz_GP on 2010-11-12 01:16 ]
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false_morel
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Posted: 2010-11-12 04:31
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On 2010-11-12 01:48:38, snoFlake wrote:
Sooo what are these new "Symbian"(Artist formerly known as S^3/S^4)" devices that will be flooding the market other than the C6-01, C7, E7,


Those three are supposed to be released soon in this quarter.. There are two models still running on older versions of Symbian to be released as well! I'm not sure about that though..
Now, as for the next year, starting Q1, Nokia claimed they'll flood the market with all new Symbian phones and not me claiming..
Anyway, if so, those would be announced soon.. But Q1 is three months you know, it's not that up from 01.01 some four more new models will be released..

------------------------------

@ Tsepz_GP

I'm not twisting nor denying facts here!
I already said that both Android and Symbian are the leading OSs right now, and both have the potential to top the competition.
Now the ones saying Symbian is dying or vanishing, and only the ignorant still picking Symbian phones or give similar exaggerated claims are the ones twisting some facts..
At the mean time, I'd pick a Symbian phone from Nokia over an Android any time.. And I'm sure there are many who know about this stuff who would do or doing the same!

There's nothing to discuss really.. Numbers are clear enough.. All factors and aspects are very well recognized..
Let's see how things would uncover in the coming months..
[ This Message was edited by: false_morel on 2010-11-12 03:33 ]
mlife
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Posted: 2010-11-12 05:57
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you know what cracks me up about all this..... how much credit you all give the average consumer. The problem here in the US (IMO) is that 90% of consumers are SHEEP! We on this forum live, sleep, dream and wake up to cell phones and electronics so the finite details matter to us.... Not so much to the average consumer.

I work in wireless retail here in the U.S. and can't tell you how many times someone comes in to buy a phone that their "friend has" and could care less about my telling them ANYTHING about that or any other device.... they simply want whats "cool"..... not to mention how many people come in and say "I want a droid".... its mind boggling to them when they hear more than just one company/wireless carrier makes "droids".... they TRULY have NO IDEA that "droid" is simply short for Android.

Lets take that one step further... can you image trying to explain Nokia/Symbian to a customer like I have just described... GOOD LUCK WITH THAT.

As people get more educated and the gap in number of applications available for the big three (Apple OS, Android and Symbian) shrink you will only have the hardware to compare.... and me personally, Ill put my N8 up against ANY phone on the market today in that respect.

Just my .02
Tsepz_GP
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Posted: 2010-11-12 07:37
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snoflake
+1, exactly.
False morel
Sure thing , i didnt say symbian's dead or vanishing, as long as Nokia keep throwing it into cheap ARM11 based phones it will certainly be around, in the same way "dumb"phones are. We will indeed see what happens, but i think the writing is already on the wall.
mlife
Well even in hardware the Androids are ahead, except the camera, the droids are the ones with 1GHz CPUs, over 300mb RAM, huge high-resolution displays, some are now coming in with HDMI, etc... So even in that department Androids have an advantage mixed with great software, with Symbians you have the N8's camera, HDMI port and then? All the other S^3s have fixed focus cameras, low res displays, ARM11 CPUs etc... Hardware is one of the main things i looked at when deciding between getting an X10 or waiting for a N8, im not realy that into photography and with just that in mind i picked the X10 as i would gain more with its hardware and software mix.
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false_morel
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Posted: 2010-11-12 12:51
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Tsepz_GP,

first of all, I don't have to count all low-end Android phones already in the market, from all manufacturers except Google as they only released the Nexus1..

Actually, the low-end Androids outnumber the high-end ones!

Now, as to hardware comparison, and high-tech innovations, check this from allaboutsymbian, and I may dare to ask you again to highlight Android's phone superiority over the N8 hardware-wise!!

Some hints:
- We all know 3.5" screens and the Symbian's native resolution are more than enough.
Surfing the net isn't and shouldn't be teh primary function of Multi-media all-rounder smartphone!
You could purshase a tablet or netbook for that you know..

- With those tiny processor and memory specs you're referring to as, the N8 is more capable of achieving things than those 1Ghz processors and 512 memory equipped Androids!

- As to camera, Androids at the current approach, of adopting slim sizes and all battery-demanding hardware, there's no mean to install a high-end camera on any of these devices.
I could elaborate on this if you want...
But it seems Nokia are all alone innovating in this department from now on! The N8's camera is a category of its own, and most probably will stay that way. Only Nokia going all the way in this department, and they declared that some time ago.

Samsung and SE took some major blows by their feature cameraphones and aren't planning to produce any further models!
So it seems that Nokia not only alone in the smart-camera-phone department, but also alone in the cameraphone department in general..

As I mentoined on other forum, it was a very good experience with SE so far, even with the Satio. And there was time I didn't even think of this coming, but here I am, going all Nokia it seems as there are no other option out there for time being!
mlife
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Posted: 2010-11-12 14:38
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@Tsepz_GP

I'm curious which of these phones YOU have actually used/owned... becasue you are speaking of numbers and spec's like they are the end-all-be-all.... I own an N8(Unlocked), Captivate (AT&T), Fascinate(Verizon) and my girlfriend has the HTC EVO 4G .... and to be honest (number of apps aside) my N8 is just as fast and in some cases FASTER than any of those phones.... NOT bench tests or stats.... ACTUALLY USING the phone...

One good example, I have a copy of the movie "Avatar" on my phone (a 1.5GB file) and if at the start of the movie, you "jump" toward the end of the movie, my Samsungs and the HTC take at least 2seconds and in some cases 3 or 4 to start playing again... the N8 acts as if you simply took it off pause, no delay.

Another is sending images... If I send full rez images via email (now keep in mind this is 12mp vs 5mp) when I attach the files my android devices take almost TWICE as long to insert files (when you select 2 or more photos) than the Nokia.

Im just sayin'


..... oh, here is quick proof that I actually own those phones so I don't sound like a "fanboy"
I turned the screens on for proof the image was just shot.
Tsepz_GP
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Posted: 2010-11-12 15:01
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False morel
WRT your comment on internet, yes well i come back and say why buy the N8 for the camera? You can get a DSLR ya know

The hardware in the N8 is great, but some of it has drawbacks e.g. USB-OTG which is slow when dealing with HDDs, requires to always carry the adapter (it gets worse for C7, E7 and C6-01 as they dont even come with the adapter in box),and it doesnt work with other phones other than Nokias. Its a great feature,but not very well implemented.
HDMI, thats already on Androids e.g. Motorola XT720.
Pentaband- This is an innovation, no doubt, but it doesnt even seem to be part of Nokia's marketing campaign, people wont know about it until its too late, kinda like the Accelerometer in the N95 which was discovered only after the iPhone had used it to its full advantage.
Screen tech, according to iFixit i think it was, the guys who took apart the N8, and Eldar of M-R, the N8 and C7's AMOLED, and the CB-AMOLED in C6-01 and E7 are done by Samsung, and arent.as good as S-AMOLEDs that are in some Androids.
So the hardware is good but when you look into it not all that well implmented or the best, except for Pentaband.


WRT 1GHz CPUs and 512mb RAM, NO. Im already reading reports of the N8 closing apps due to low RAM, as said at AllAboutSymbian, the core apps are fine with 256mb RAM as they are well optimized for it, but 3rd party apps dont follow the same rules, Opera Mobile, Gravity, SPB Shell etc... which require a lot of resources once you use them extensively do eat up the RAM and CPU cycles of the ARM11, which does seem to show its age even when using built-in S60 browser where many have had to turn off JavaScript just to get a half decent browsing experience.
There are other areas that seem to get affected e.g. viewing large PDFs, large emails etc...where the ol' ARM11 shows its age, Androids tend to be very fast and fluid at such things, anyway android works very differently in terms of task management and so manages better than symbian in running multiple heavy tasks.

Dont know how we managed to go so offtopic to hardware etc... Apologies, as I said, Android is growing at a rapid rateand will continue to eat away at Symbians share,we can discuss all the technicality in each system til we're blue in the face, but it really doesn't seem to matter to the many leaving Symbian for Android and other OS.

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Tsepz_GP
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Posted: 2010-11-12 15:19
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Mlife
I briefly got to use a promoter's N8 two days ago, didnt take a pic of it or with it as i was mainly interested in things such as: Web browsing, Music, handling documents, emails, multitasking and gaming, i was left not so impressed. Music player was the only part that totaly blew me away as it runs at 60fps like the player in 5800 v51, very smooth and fast, made Mediascape seem to take forever on my X10, overall though i wastjust felt disappointed, made me glad i didnt wait, but made me wonder what on earth Nokia had been doing all this time. The t9 keypad was worse than it was in S60v5, did they actualy test it? Was just not good. Great hardware, excellent build quality, but poor softwarewise, IMO.
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false_morel
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Posted: 2010-11-12 17:48
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Tsepz,

I gave you a link with a summary of some of Nokia's high-tech features and implementations, most of them firsts on an high-end smartphone, and you replied by going through some of them high-lighting the downsides of each and ignoring the major functoinaliy and benefits of those features!
You also somehow ignored mentioning half of those features..

It's easy, no other high-end phone is equipped as the N8 is! No analysis is required for that conclusion.
The N8 isn't perfect, and isn't the ultimate phone as it misses some things. However, at the moment it's the best package. And no phone actually could labeled as ultimate, and none will!

As to your analogy with the camera and net surfing, you missed the fact that the camera isn't the primary function of the N8! It's not a feature phone. It does other things as much as good, including some firsts! And surfing is good enough as well.
However, Androids are concentrating on one thing only, huge screens and net surfing. This is the difference.
Besides, having a multi-media all-rounder phone nowadays, for them to include a decent camera is must!

Heck, the Galaxy S doesn't even have a flash at all! And btw, it's the only Android with Super AMOLED, not as you hinted.

No need to discredit any manufacturer or device here..
The pros and cons, as well as the limitations of each are very visible. And it remains a matter of choice and priority.
The competition is wide open, and hte way I see it, with the major updates the N8 receiving in January, including a whole renewed UI, new browser, new keyboards, new camera interface and features, and other minor stuff, it should be a clear winner.
The step Symbian^3 will be taking is a lot bigger than that of Froyo's to Gingerbread that is..
[ This Message was edited by: false_morel on 2010-11-12 16:50 ]
Tsepz_GP
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Posted: 2010-11-12 18:06
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Androids are not just for web surfing, glad you some how got yourself to believe that.
Social networking, eBook reading, document editting/viewing, excellent Email functionality, multimedia with apps such as RockPlayer, WinAmp, they are excellent for gaming, customizability is one of their major strong points, being able to tye in 3rd party apps, core apps etc...very well together etc... They arent good at camera yes, but they do all else VERY well.
Its great to have a few firsts although USB-OTG was once done in some random WindowsMobile phone years ago. The N8's only firsts are Pentaband and the largest camera sensor other than that no other, the N900 had USB-OTG also enabled by the Maemo community before the N8 was in the market.
As i said, Androids arent just big screens and web surfing, clearly you dont know much about them, and the way you have gone on, you clearly havent had much experience with them,as THEN you wouldn't post ignorant comments like that.
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mrjulius
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Posted: 2010-11-12 18:15
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geezzzz! Android is good! and why many manufacturer drop symbian?
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Tsepz_GP
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Posted: 2010-11-12 18:27
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False morel
Did Nokia say January 2011 specifically? I keep seeing 1st half and early 2011: http://m.zdnet.co.uk/news/mob[....]dates-for-early-2011-40090806/ which one is it exactly? 1st half which is a whole 6months, or January as you say?
Also, how exactly do you know how big the update to Gingerbread will be hmm? Have you got some kind of official source there? Rumours are that it will bring support for 1280x760 res displays, but thats realy all people have been able to find, the rest is just speculation.
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false_morel
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Posted: 2010-11-12 20:47
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On 2010-11-12 18:15:13, mrjulius wrote:
geezzzz! Android is good! and why many manufacturer drop symbian?



Yes, Android is good. No doubt about that. The subject we're debating is whether it's better than Symbian or not, and whether Android's high-ends are a better deal than the N8 or not, and about the future of each OS for the coming months..

@ Tsepz

By stressing on the Internet-tablet factor, I'm not criticizing the OS there, but rather all the high-ends featuring the OS. This is the current feature all manufacturers stressing on.. Huge screens on slim devices which provide excellent surfing capability.. I know what other things those phones are capable of and at what efficiency; which isn't that satisfying contrary to your claims, despite the 1Ghz and various RAMs at minimum of 512..
Which isn't bad either, but definitely not a compromise!

And I used Androids phones, each for a day or two, before selling them, and I know much about the OS!
However, considering the Droid high-ends in the market right now, they lack some major stuff..
Besides, technically, though Android having some major advantages over Symbian in some aspects, but also trailing behind in other majors!!

About the coming updates, I think Google better fix the current bugs and lags before going for new features to begin with!
And regardless of the step Gingerbread is taking Android up with, it wont exceed the step Symbian is taking by all those major tweaks and implementations coming! And this is quite expected and normal.
It's Symbian that's really taking a major step here, not Android taking a tiny one..
As to the date I posted it was so declared in SEE this week..

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