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Petition for SE to use CCD in their top C-series phones |
Sony α
Joined: Dec 23, 2007
Posts: > 500
From: LDN/TYO
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LOL - You guys Crack me up, this is the most fun I have seen in a Thread for ages lol, can I be '3ddi3 Adams' lol
And, AbuBasim - lol, dude - I had to try hard to read your post lol!
@A L 3 X
'and as for douche, that's a typical American thing to say.' - Come on, thats going too far Dude - no need for it...
Also, in reply to your comment about the Thread - you post here too, so lets keep it calm and constructive, not fiery and destructive...
A L 3 X, im sure you have a vast knowledge filled mind filled by Facts and Figures - but be selective in what you post, telling us you contributed to a Goat purchse for your Educational institute, does not help us any further to having CCD Sony Ericsson phones.
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Sony αlphα.
imaging.like.no.other
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[ This Message was edited by: Sony α on 2008-04-28 17:28 ] | |
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A L 3 X
Joined: Dec 20, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: Yorkshire Phone: iPhone 3G
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On 2008-04-28 18:20:18, Sony α wrote:
LOL - You guys Crack me up, this is the most fun I have seen in a Thread for ages lol, can I be '3ddi3 Adams' lol
And, AbuBasim - lol, dude - I had to try hard to read your post lol!
@A L 3 X
'and as for douche, that's a typical American thing to say.' - Come on, thats going too far Dude - no need for it...
Also, in reply to your comment about the Thread - you post here too, so lets keep it calm and constructive, not fiery and destructive...
A L 3 X, im sure you have a vast knowledge filled mind filled by Facts and Figures - but be selective in what you post, telling us you contributed to a Goat purchse for your Educational institute, does not help us any further to having CCD Sony Ericsson phones.
I didn't want to say that....i was asked what i've done....which granted isn't much but they asked....and as for the thread....I don't really give a crap what sensors SE put in their phones....thats my point
and my comment about being called a douche....i'm being serious.....I wasn't intending to take anything too far.
Thanks for the compliment though...
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[ This Message was edited by: A L 3 X on 2008-04-28 17:40 ] |
NightBlade
Joined: Jul 29, 2007
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From: Nessebar, Bulgaria
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Masseur, I think it's time now. |
Sony α
Joined: Dec 23, 2007
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From: LDN/TYO
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@NightBlade
Its okay Dude - A L 3 X didn't mean any harm to anyone - things just got a bit out of hand, but im sure the thread can continue nicely, and discuss the CCD issue...
Masseur, lets keep it open - don't lock the thread - however, anymore Arguments and then yes - Agreed, lock it up...
Sony Alpha.
imaging.like.no.other
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sadeghi85
Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 341
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On 2008-04-28 18:47:33, Sony α wrote:
... but im sure the thread can continue nicely, and discuss the CCD issue...
Ok it can, but i suggest deleting irrelevant posts (including this, lol). |
A L 3 X
Joined: Dec 20, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: Yorkshire Phone: iPhone 3G
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Yep, i said i'd leave the thread before but I got all these arguments started, i just wanted to get my point across....however it seems people can't get over the fact SE are not putting some thingybob in there phones
I just didn't and still don't see the need for a petition(is there even a link to a petition site in this thread) about something so silly as this....a petition i always thought was to try and help get an important decision sorted
Like i say i'll leave now.....continue with settling this worldwide important matter 
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bambarah
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Posts: 121
From: Kuwait
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I doubt that any mobile manufactorer would use CCD sensor , because in couple shots the battery would be exausted !
Yes ! the CCD sensor consumes more power
And before you are making this suggestion , you should know that many big Camera manufacturers are shifting back to the CMOS sensors after they enhanced its abilities
the issue that you want to focus on is to enlarge the sensore size
Do you know that SE claimed that they would increase the sensore size to 1/2.5" ? The smallest sensor in this chart !
Dear brothers , we have to understand more about photography factors before we demand things
see this article and you would understand more
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_sensor_format
[ This Message was edited by: bambarah on 2008-04-28 18:49 ] |
AbuBasim
Joined: Nov 04, 2005
Posts: > 500
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On 2008-04-28 19:46:43, bambarah wrote:
I doubt that any mobile manufactorer would use CCD sensor , because in couple shots the battery would be exausted !
Yes, this is true although not just a little bit exaggerated. It takes more than just a couple of shots to drain the battery. I just did a quick test with my phone now. After taking 40 shots the battery is still showing a full charge. What I've noticed is that the display drains the battery faster.
And before you are making this suggestion , you should know that many big Camera manufacturers are shifting back to the CMOS sensors after they enhanced its abilities
Yes, this is the trend, at least with dSLRs where sensors are very large and the lower sensitivity of CMOS isn't an issue.
the issue that you want to focus on is to enlarge the sensore size
Do you know that SE claimed that they would increase the sensore size to 1/2.5" ? The smallest sensor in this chart !
You didn't include the size of the IMX020 sensor in the K850: 1/2.8". The cell (pixel) size of the IMX020 is 2x2 µm. Compare that with the 1/3" 3 MP sensor in the K770 with a cell size of 2.25x2.25 µm. That's 25 percent larger cells so not surprising that the K770 produces photos with less noise than the K850. If the K850 had a 1/2.5" CMOS sensor AND didn't use such high ISO speeds the results would've been the opposite.
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hgautam
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: > 500
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On 2008-04-28 10:51:57, HotXRock wrote:
@hgautam
Do you personally understand what you're writing yourself? Yeah, K850 is already thick and this is exactly why it wouldn't be a good idea to put CCD sensor.
Maybe you think that K850 is an empty case? If it is thick even with CMOS, CCD would make K850 thicker.
[ This Message was edited by: HotXRock on 2008-04-28 09:52 ]
Are you NERD???
I very well know and understand what I am saying and what you mentioned is just what you think... I mentioned what I think... I would prefer few more mm to K850 with a CCD then few less mm with CMOS, IF I WANT TO GO FOR A PHONE WITH CAMERA AS MY MOST PREFERED FEATURES... I am not a photographer but I do love taking pics and don't wanna carry a digital camera seperately... That's why I want to have a great phone with a great camera... That's why I have mentioned my willingness for CCD in this thread... It's all a matter of what you like... You may be happy with a slim phone with decent camera but I would prefer a camera that can takes great pics even in low light even if it's thicker by today's standard...
What makes you think that I think the K850 is an empty case??? I know it's not...
Sony's Slim Cybershot digital camera's have CMOS but the not so slim (yet compact, ex W-Series) have CCD lens... In a mobile phone a CCD lens takes better pics than a CMOS one in low light... You know this too...
And about making the phone thicker, do you think K850's successor will be slim??? NO!!! SE K850 is 17mm thick, Nokia's N82 is 17.3mm thick, Samsung's G800 is 18.8mm thick, etc. and they are all flagship phones and later they have all slimmer 5MP versions like the soul and C902... So my point was just that SE can easliy put a CCD lens in an 18mm thick phone and soon release a much slimmer phone with CMOS lens for people who prefer a slimmer phone...
I am not saying just use CCD lens only and not CMOS... I am not against CMOS lens or anyother type of lens... But I prefer a CCD lens... I hope atleast the last line clears what I mean??? |
EddieAdams
Joined: Nov 12, 2007
Posts: 251
From: L.I., New York
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4 L 3 X wrote:
Some thing that makes me laugh is I don't see how an earth you can pick fault with my username when you can't think of anything more imaginative than whats written on your birth certificate, I can think of a better one already, i think "Professor Frink" would be more suitable, and somehow I doubt many "chicks" will visit a forum dedicated to mobile phones and even if they did I don't really see why they would be impressed by the number "3"......if that has impressed any of your girlfriends(if you've ever had any) then they must be pretty interesting.....
It's called "sarcasm" , "Larry Literal". Yes, I'm named after a fictional character from Boogie Nights, a 1994 movie loosely based on the life of porn star legend John Holmes. Great movie, highly recommend it. I'd rather not have the thread closed, so I'll cease. Believe me though, I could do better than you on a night out with my wedding ring on. Apologies Masseur, like I said I'll cease.
Hello, Exactly!-Eddie Adams a.k.a. Dirk Diggler a.k.a. Brock Landers. Boogie Nights. |
EddieAdams
Joined: Nov 12, 2007
Posts: 251
From: L.I., New York
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Are you NERD???
I very well know and understand what I am saying and what you mentioned is just what you think... I mentioned what I think... I would prefer few more mm to K850 with a CCD then few less mm with CMOS, IF I WANT TO GO FOR A PHONE WITH CAMERA AS MY MOST PREFERED FEATURES... I am not a photographer but I do love taking pics and don't wanna carry a digital camera seperately... That's why I want to have a great phone with a great camera... That's why I have mentioned my willingness for CCD in this thread... It's all a matter of what you like... You may be happy with a slim phone with decent camera but I would prefer a camera that can takes great pics even in low light even if it's thicker by today's standard...
What makes you think that I think the K850 is an empty case??? I know it's not...
Sony's Slim Cybershot digital camera's have CMOS but the not so slim (yet compact, ex W-Series) have CCD lens... In a mobile phone a CCD lens takes better pics than a CMOS one in low light... You know this too...
And about making the phone thicker, do you think K850's successor will be slim??? NO!!! SE K850 is 17mm thick, Nokia's N82 is 17.3mm thick, Samsung's G800 is 18.8mm thick, etc. and they are all flagship phones and later they have all slimmer 5MP versions like the soul and C902... So my point was just that SE can easliy put a CCD lens in an 18mm thick phone and soon release a much slimmer phone with CMOS lens for people who prefer a slimmer phone...
I am not saying just use CCD lens only and not CMOS... I am not against CMOS lens or anyother type of lens... But I prefer a CCD lens... I hope atleast the last line clears what I mean???
That's my biggest reason. If SE had a device that was CMOS and still took "stand-alone" quality shots then fine. No reason to complain. You see alot of users say "just buy a good compact camera and cell phone." I too do not want to stuff my pockets full of multiple devices. Even though I own a nice compact camera I don't always have it with me and often I am in situations where a few snaps would be fun to take.
The N82 is CMOS but, as I mentioned even it doesn't achieve the consistent quality of a 3mp standalone camera. The all-in-one convergence N82, N95, N96 all as of now take better photos then the camera focused Cybershot branded k850. I don't care for Nokia at all but, the N82 is looking better and better. Just want "it" in a SE package.
Hello, Exactly!-Eddie Adams a.k.a. Dirk Diggler a.k.a. Brock Landers. Boogie Nights. |
razec
Joined: Aug 20, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: Mars
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@People:
CCD and CMOS are sensors, not lenses 
@bambarah:
I don't trust kodak in all aspects of imaging. even in their super sized sensors.
10 years at Esato |
iksplusipsilon
Joined: Dec 23, 2007
Posts: 303
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... just give me a 2-3 MP camera that is good even in low light conditions and without sharpening artifacts and blurring ( + good flash +lens cover, so it doesn't get scratched easily +some kind of stabilizer for us with shaky hands ) and I do not care what kind of tech is it ! I don't need 5 MP in a phone, would rather prefer if they make the separation with stand-alone cameras and phones based just on number of MP's, while the quality should be similar .... |
hgautam
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: > 500
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On 2008-04-29 02:34:55, razec wrote:
@People:
CCD and CMOS are sensors, not lenses
Got it!!! Actually these are quite confusion, sensors, lenses, etc. I do not have their technical knowledge you know...
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max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Australia
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CCD sensors cannot be made as small as CMOS for the same quality. Yes CCD is better than CMOS generally, but CMOS is leading the edge in terms of size.
In a phone camera, size is ultra important, so OEM's prefer to use CMOS as it drastically reduces the cost of R&D, which in turn makes the phone cheaper.
To produce a CCD sensor the same size as a CMOS sensor (for a given resolution) is probably twice as expensive. So it's far more cost effective to put r&d dollars into improving CMOS quality rather than reducing CCD size.
It's a simple equation, and SE (actually Sony, who develop the sensors) have reasoned, correctly I believe, that there are not enough buyers demanding CCD to justify the cost of developing CCD based camera phone modules.
As far as stating CCD is better than CMOS, there are a lot of if's there. If it's larger, if it has adequate sized battery, if the CMOS you are comparing to is inadequate. You simply can't say CCD is better than CMOS in all situations. Often it is, but the line is getting narrow. The fact is CMOS performs better than CCD at very small sensor sizes.
Low light performance is one advantage of CCD, but with the rate of improvement of CMOS technology this gap is getting narrower all the time. An example of this, the K800 out performs K750 on low light performance, yet has a smaller sensor. So I think OEM's are right to concentrate on CMOS technology. It's the better in the long run because it's improving the breed (of CMOS sensors).
If they were to bring out even one model with CCD, they would have to dumb down other aspects of the phone (aka i902) to accomodate the power consumption and size of a CCD. This would likely mean a CCD model cybershot would be produced at a loss and would also reflect badly on SE products in all areas but the camera.
In the best of all worlds, I would like to see a CCD based SE handset, but I don't necessarily think it's the best thing for SE or average SE end users. I'm willing to accept that unless there is a break through in CCD miniaturisation, we will likely never see a CCD based cybershot camera phone.
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Posted: 2008-04-28 18:20
