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The All New Sony Ericsson Portfolio for 2008 |
Xajel
Joined: Jun 18, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Bahrain
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On 2008-04-23 19:01:49, xumdeo wrote:
R&D funding has to come from money
where does most of the money come from? mid and low end devices
AFAIK low-end doesn't proide too much funding for R&D as these devices are designed to be as cheap as possible, they can't sell them if they don't lower thier prices to hell down...
I read somewhere that High-end & mid-end devices can support low-end devices, the low-end devices maybe used only to increase the market share
so they design a mid-end phone, then they cut some features and package it in another design and that's it cost as less as they can
something similar with Daihatsu wich Toyota had 51% of it's shares, in order to cut cost ( as Daihatsu is known for low cost cars ) Daihatsu uses parts from Toyota, they don't design thier own parts to cut cost ( cost of design and marketig and shipping all gone by using Toyota parts ), even there's some car design that is completly like Toyota cars, in china there's a Daihatsu car that looks like Toyota Camry !!
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Ricky D
Joined: Feb 05, 2007
Posts: > 500
From: UK (living in Beijing)
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On 2008-04-23 19:01:49, xumdeo wrote:
R&D funding has to come from money
where does most of the money come from? mid and low end devices
Absolutely correct. I can't believe so many of you are so disappointed in a month that we've been shown the existance of phones like Paris and Beibei. These are good phones. So what if SE have taken a month off from announcing a high-end phone or two. SE aren't big enough to announce one every month. They don't have the resources. They're trying to build enough of a portfolio so they can afford to produce hihg end handsets more regularly. From what I can read into PK's (someitimes cryptic) clues over what's coming, we've got a lot more to look forward to this year than we did last year. For my money, that's improvement. I'm not complaining about SE but about you guys who're slating them.
I have a dig bick
You read that wrong |
hgautam
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: > 500
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On 2008-04-23 19:46:47, Ricky D wrote:
I can't believe so many of you are so disappointed in a month that we've been shown the existance of phones like Paris and Beibei. These are good phones.
See that the problem...  |
my ninja
Joined: Sep 23, 2004
Posts: > 500
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the amount of revenue needed to generate from low end devices, is probably proportional to the revenue generated by highend.
its not lack of funding in R&D ... its lack of VISION specifically looking to last year to find out and see what ppl want this year, its convoluted in its inception and has SE playing catch up CONSTANTLY. its a lack of motivation to create 1 PHONE that IS what SE represents, one device that is to be the face plate of the corporation. Here this is what we can do, this is what we want. this is what you asked for, oh yea its waaaayyy better than that.
examples:
Ferrari Enzo
Nissan GT-R
pinnacles of research and engineering, all the tech behind these cars (more so with the enzo as of today) has made its way down to the lesser offerings in ferraris stable, the gt-r no doubt will have aspects of its evgineering reside in the lesser models from nissan (infiniti as well). thats all im saying.
everyone here thinks that it takes massive amounts of money to do R&D and it very well may (i dont have a financial statement from SE ... mizzle/m1, the Q1 came out yesterday do you have a copy of that?), however if they focus on something outlandish they can use what they learn in the phones that are to come in segments below.
i have NO idea why there isnt a tier above the W and K that incorporates both, i know they think it will canabalize their sales but no one likes having to CONTINUOSLY make comprimises when a platform like this should clearly exist. there is a demand and it should be addressed, there are concerned parties who take note, those that will be recieving these low end models wont find out about them till next year, and will probably get them on contract for their children who only care about what color the case is and if they can txt msg.
they need stop riding the coattails of sonys brands and create their own (xperia is a start but, it would have been nice to start the brand with a phone by SE). how hard is it to make an entertainment phone out of the parts from a w960 and k850, how hard is it to make a business phone that isnt an awkward slow brick?
like i said if they would use a line of processors that they could continue using for 2 years ... instead of trying to run the same platform and OS with a new fancy shell, and incremental rom upgrades wed have a compentent phone by now. but they keep throwing out these incremental updates ...
the phone that mizzle and m-1 were showing us the last few weeks seems nice, cant say anything about it till we get a whitesheet ...
itd be nice to have a 1.8" 64GB SSD in a phone next year ... but that would be too expensive!
Thats how sony should fight the ipod ... it has the means, just missing the ambition. |
makbil
Joined: Oct 26, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: Istanbul
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How about this:
SE's X1 outsourced to HTC.
Why not outsource a high end device to Nokia? Then SE can play with the low/mid range phones to their hearts content.
It's been two years now and no new devices announced that have a significant improvement over the 1st generation UIQ3 devices. I wouldn't be surprised if the G700/900 have some residual bugs from the P990.
P990i: A mistake, a curse and a disgrace  So I lowered my expectations and settled for a P1i. I couldn't keep my expectations so low for a long time so now I have an HTC Touch HD |
iksplusipsilon
Joined: Dec 23, 2007
Posts: 303
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^^ Not a bad idea ! ( LOL, this is getting kind of sad :-) )
This message was posted from a WAP device |
moogoo
Joined: Oct 25, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: NYC
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I dunno...
I think many of you just need to quit your bitchin. If you don't like what SE's doing, you're more than welcome to go to another manufacturer.
They have their strategy and they're gonna follow it. Business is business. If you like a company, you stick with them. If not, you go somewhere else. That is what a free market is all about. So, if you don't like it, just go somewhere else. This is a forum to discuss the features of SE products not a forum to ridicule SE's business tactics, whine and complain about your disappointments.
As the saying goes, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. Keep it to a minimum. At least if you want to voice your dislike or disappointment for a PRODUCT, wait until there is official information before drawing conclusions. All this bitching is making my head spin.
moogoo
Nokia 5160 -> Nokia 8260 -> SE T68i -> SE K700i -> SE Z710 -> SE Xperia X10a -> Sony Xperia S -> Sony Xperia Z1 -> Sony Xperia XZ -> Sony Xperia XZ Premium -> Sony Xperia 1ii
Website: https://www.mikedoesitall.com |
clauf
Joined: Jun 17, 2007
Posts: > 500
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On 2008-04-24 01:56:19, moogoo wrote:
I dunno...
I think many of you just need to quit your bitchin. If you don't like what SE's doing, you're more than welcome to go to another manufacturer.
They have their strategy and they're gonna follow it. Business is business. If you like a company, you stick with them. If not, you go somewhere else. That is what a free market is all about. So, if you don't like it, just go somewhere else. This is a forum to discuss the features of SE products not a forum to ridicule SE's business tactics, whine and complain about your disappointments.
As the saying goes, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. Keep it to a minimum. At least if you want to voice your dislike or disappointment for a PRODUCT, wait until there is official information before drawing conclusions. All this bitching is making my head spin.
Well said. Although I'm not a fan of Sony Ericsson's business tactic [focusing on mid to low enders], it's actually the smartest way. Most of the forumers here, if not all, only are impressed with high end phones and high speced phones. For christ sake, that's not the majority of the market and one will never be able to make money if you are focusing on such a small marketshare. Most people, whether that's Asians, Europeans, or North Americans, just want a decent phone with a few added features like music player and camera. So far, all of Sony Ericsson's phone has not only met these guidelines, but have exceeded them: gallery, future TV out, etc.
That being said, Sony Ericsson is still making a few higher speced phones, namely Paris, X1, and I'm pretty sure PeterKay, Mizzle, and/or M-One would be able to confirm that there are more phones to come. |
laurenke01
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
Posts: > 500
From: USA
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And when it comes to the super-high-end phones we all love, we're actually in the relative minority when compared to all consumers. As said, most people just want a good phone that works well and calls people. I don't have any numbers to back my argument up, but my guess is for all of SE's customers, 75% purchase low-mid end phones and 25% buy mid-high end phones, and of that 25%, maybe only 25% buy ultra-high end handsets such as Paris. Again, just a guess.
As one of those people who buys ultra-high-end handsets, of course I would like SE to make more. Heck, I'd like them all to be ultra-high. But that is unreasonable, especially given that SE is not, financially, Nokia or even Samsung. In order to build to that point, they need to make profit--lots of profit--and the way to do that is build the low-mid segment augmented with a few high-enders, which is exactly what they're doing. People claim they wish SE ignored things like "market share," but the truth is if they actually did that, as a company, they'd be dead within a year. Companies like SE live or die by market share.
Also, it seems this latest rash of disappointment in SE's high-end portfolio sprung from the latest announcement. To that I say: What were you expecting? We've known for at least a week which two phones would be presented and we knew their specifications. It's not like we were blindsided, expecting Paris to be announced and instead handed the G502.
Part and parcel with that, we've known for several weeks now exactly when Paris and BeiBei and possibly even Shiho and another phone will be announced--May. And guess what? ALL of those are the high-to-ultra-high we've been waiting for! I think it's incredibly unfair to be ridiculing SE's high-end portfolio when we know exactly when high-end devices will be presented. Now, after that announcement...THEN everyone can complain about the high-end portfolio (which I'm sure some of you will). |
my ninja
Joined: Sep 23, 2004
Posts: > 500
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it is not my intent to write a long response here, but to the posters above me, after my last post.
it has nothing to do with an announcement (or lack there of), it has nothing to do with brand loyalty or switching brands. it has nothing to do with market share, it has nothing to do with profit margins ...
like i said and will continue to say its about a lack of foresight, no one who is in their current for of R&D is looking ahead. they are all looking at the current competition, instead of what MAY come.
what put SE ahead and why ive stuck with them is the fact that they were innovators! not relying on this philosophy of bottom heavy lineups.
i dont care about low end phones, i dont. but that doesnt mean i dont want them to make those phones. what it does mean is that id like them to put more thought into less phones at the top end, and actually MAKE a HIGH end phone.
i feel the last one was the P990 ... and its been a few years. its the lack of dedication to push ahead, instead of merely trying to keep up. |
chuksy
Joined: Aug 07, 2007
Posts: 224
From: uk
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I think until SE produce a phone that will do the laundry,do the dishes,walk the dog,and take junior to school, these guys would not relent in whining and bitching.
I think its time someone create a website solely for SE bitching.....so we can concentrate more on the more important things here..... |
makbil
Joined: Oct 26, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: Istanbul
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On 2008-04-24 01:56:19, moogoo wrote:
If you don't like what SE's doing, you're more than welcome to go to another manufacturer.
They have their strategy and they're gonna follow it. Business is business. If you like a company, you stick with them. If not, you go somewhere else.
I will do so when and if I choose, obviously.
That is what a free market is all about. So, if you don't like it, just go somewhere else.
That's what free speech is about, if you don't like it don't read it,skip it.
This is a forum to discuss the features of SE products not a forum to ridicule SE's business tactics, whine and complain about your disappointments.
Oh my, so sensitive! The best way to avoid that would be to come up with good devices that deliver what is promised.
As the saying goes, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. Keep it to a minimum. At least if you want to voice your dislike or disappointment for a PRODUCT, wait until there is official information before drawing conclusions. All this bitching is making my head spin.
It's up to me to say whatever I choose to say, I didn't know having to say "something nice" was a requirement.
Sorry to have upset you but it looks like I may be doing you a favor after all. Having used mostly S/E phones since 1993 and all the Pxxx series (except P910) I have paid enough to SE to earn the right to voice my opinion.
Just like everyone else, I've been waiting for something good from SE to make up for their P990 blunder but two years have passed and they just reheat and serve the same old dish. Just remember that as long as there are enough suckers around to blindly buy any device in whichever condition SE makes, than there will not be any reason for SE to get its act together and start giving us the cutting edge devices we so loved back in the P900 era.
P990i: A mistake, a curse and a disgrace So I lowered my expectations and settled for a P1i. I couldn't keep my expectations so low for a long time so now I have an HTC Touch HD |
Supa_Fly
Joined: Apr 16, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: Toronto, Ontario
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The recent news of SE making teh Z780 is a NEW twist! I don't recall SE EVER announcing a phone model (z770i) that has great specs yet limited worldwide reach and only slightly adjusting the facia and adding the SAME specs with more bands for FULL worldwide reach?!!!
THIS is what SE needs to do ... and I'm glad & proud of the designers outdoing themselves with these new Flip phone designs. SE flips have always had a lackluster Love - Hate (more the latter) amongst users around the world. The Z750i most likely had too many issues and looked too much like the z600i (ok there is the other comparison to my 1st paragraph above; however 1 is 1.5yrs already on the market, not BOTH jsut announced). I loved ALL  flips EXCEPT the bulky & ugly z650i and its :walkman: variant.
I think this z780 is a more important launch than we all realize. We have 1 phone to FULLY compete with teh RAZR2 which many ppl are already getting tired of, a lot sooner than the first RAZR. I'm hoping providers around the world pick this up; and for the Europeans the Z770i is cheaper.
IF SE continues on this role (along with w910i MGM music version with exclusive content; and should also with the W760i imo), then they'll have more money for R&D and production of new platforms. They'll need to push advertisement as well ... MUCH more than they have before with these new phones.
K850i (still got some decent life)
w890i
w980i (music FLIP with 8GB COMMON PUSH THAT till the FULL MOON ) I wanna see an intelligent, memorable, yet sexy (or with sex appeal) on a commercial for this one!
W760i (advertise the Tracker and AGPS and GeoTagging on this one BIGTIME! Show a runner that wakes up to an Alarm playing a SICK tune. She/He gets ready. Grabs the w760i, checks daily appointments with family, groceries etc, and starts GoogleMaps/WayFinder looks for a route. Launches Tracker. Goes for a sprint run, or moutain biking with music playing. Ends and checks his route, Kj burned, BEST time of the track, etc, then an incoming phone call comes in showing multitasking seemlessness!)
BeiBei for business users.
|AppleTV2|iPhone 12Mini 256GB|iPad Pro 256GB| Previously ...  K750|Z500|Z520|K700|K790i|K850i, :Ericsson: T18z|T28World|T36m x3|T68m (Ericsson, not the rebranded T68i). |
clauf
Joined: Jun 17, 2007
Posts: > 500
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On 2008-04-24 02:39:06, my ninja wrote:
it is not my intent to write a long response here, but to the posters above me, after my last post.
it has nothing to do with an announcement (or lack there of), it has nothing to do with brand loyalty or switching brands. it has nothing to do with market share, it has nothing to do with profit margins ...
The statements you have made have EVERYTHING to do with business.
On 2008-04-24 02:39:06, my ninja wrote:
like i said and will continue to say its about a lack of foresight, no one who is in their current for of R&D is looking ahead. they are all looking at the current competition, instead of what MAY come.
what put SE ahead and why ive stuck with them is the fact that they were innovators! not relying on this philosophy of bottom heavy lineups.
i dont care about low end phones, i dont. but that doesnt mean i dont want them to make those phones. what it does mean is that id like them to put more thought into less phones at the top end, and actually MAKE a HIGH end phone.
If you look at many of the competitors, you can see that their portfolio is full of lower-end phones. Just recently, Nokia has announced Xpress Music phones that are catered for the low-mid end spectrum. Motorola [in which I don't like] has been constantly pumping low-end phones in their portfolio. LG and Samsung take a more unique approach, where they have sterred further away, but they too have been making phones for the lowend market for a while now. Sony Ericsson, on the other hand, missed this market before and is only now realizing that this is a big market and should not be ignored.
Yes, I agree that Sony Ericsson should be making more higher end phones of the spectrum, and I am waiting for one. But that doesn't mean they have no insight. In fact, people who don't understand the basics of economics and business approaches are the ones that will jump off the bridge when their business dies. |
my ninja
Joined: Sep 23, 2004
Posts: > 500
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On 2008-04-24 03:32:10, clauf wrote:
On 2008-04-24 02:39:06, my ninja wrote:
it is not my intent to write a long response here, but to the posters above me, after my last post.
it has nothing to do with an announcement (or lack there of), it has nothing to do with brand loyalty or switching brands. it has nothing to do with market share, it has nothing to do with profit margins ...
The statements you have made have EVERYTHING to do with business.
On 2008-04-24 02:39:06, my ninja wrote:
like i said and will continue to say its about a lack of foresight, no one who is in their current for of R&D is looking ahead. they are all looking at the current competition, instead of what MAY come.
what put SE ahead and why ive stuck with them is the fact that they were innovators! not relying on this philosophy of bottom heavy lineups.
i dont care about low end phones, i dont. but that doesnt mean i dont want them to make those phones. what it does mean is that id like them to put more thought into less phones at the top end, and actually MAKE a HIGH end phone.
If you look at many of the competitors, you can see that their portfolio is full of lower-end phones. Just recently, Nokia has announced Xpress Music phones that are catered for the low-mid end spectrum. Motorola [in which I don't like] has been constantly pumping low-end phones in their portfolio. LG and Samsung take a more unique approach, where they have sterred further away, but they too have been making phones for the lowend market for a while now. Sony Ericsson, on the other hand, missed this market before and is only now realizing that this is a big market and should not be ignored.
Yes, I agree that Sony Ericsson should be making more higher end phones of the spectrum, and I am waiting for one. But that doesn't mean they have no insight. In fact, people who don't understand the basics of economics and business approaches are the ones that will jump off the bridge when their business dies.
i have a bs in economics ... fwiw
now onto your other statements, im not certain your first language is english so something may have been lost in the translation, so ill not nitpick. but SE was revered for their disregard for what the commonplace phone/business phone was. they PIONEERED the multimedia touchscreen phone in an aesthetically pleasing and functional way. now we have an over abundance and portfolio clogging lowend philosophy.
how many have suffered since this new focus from shoddy workmanship and build quality? how many have had problems with "flagship" phones not operating competently when they are released? then tell me how selling poorly produced products is good for business. its this leaking, this redundancy this lack of ambition within R&D (or maybe even corporate doesnt see this segment as deserving of a new highend faceplate because of the poor sales of its last 2 flagship phones (P990/P1i) poor sales of shitty products and a company will shy away from producing them, almost cyclical(poor product > poor sales > reflected by the company putting forth less effort to produce said headsets > less sales of subsequent offerings))
i think this company had a great direction when it came out merging the best with the best, but unlike BOTH of its parent companies it is reliant on lowend sales and market penetration/saturation/share, they should also remember that brand retention is a huge part of growth, the ppl that buy a $600 are your best advertisement. somehow they think that you can bypass that. | |
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Posted: 2008-04-23 19:37
So I lowered my expectations and settled for a P1i. I couldn't keep my expectations so low for a long time so now I have an HTC Touch HD 
K750|Z500|Z520|K700|K790i|K850i, :Ericsson: T18z|T28World|T36m x3|T68m (Ericsson, not the rebranded 
