| Author |
Nokia N90 Success in Doubt? |
JK
Joined: Feb 24, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: S. Africa - JOZI
PM |
Yip I agree, nokia marketing people should worry about who their target market will be, what marketing strategy to use!!!??
Us Esato people are to smart to fall for any of that though... 
| |
|
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Australia
PM, WWW
|
my bank uses java, it doesn't work on xda II or my K750....I can't even load the main page.
Other java sites don't work. Many many people I have spoken to can't use many sites via their phones, smartphone or not.
I just tried some sites that use java, and the java applets don't work. Now I'm not a java fan, I'd be happy if all websites used html, or better xHTML, but that's not the real world.
Another factor is that many sites are not designed with mobile access in mind. This will change as xHTML becomes standard, but it is still an issue that even though it is not a problem with mobile internet devices per se, it is part of the reason smartphones still aren't popular in the general market. My webhost only 6 months ago enabled the correct mime settings that allows a web designer to build web sites that can be viewed by mobile phones.
I've never said I don't like smartphones or that I have a problem with them, except that they are too big for my personal liking. I own an XDA II. But I don't use it as a phone, that's my point. And the reason is as much the fault of operators (who often restrict mobile internet) and web designers as much as the handsets huge size.
It's a "whole industry" problem that needs to be addressed before smartphones can be successfull (that is, when everyone will want one, not just the power users like mario and mib  , although I respect you guys for pushing the limits)
As I have said again and again, it's gonna be a while before they all get their shit together  so I've decided to NOT jump on the smartphone bandwagon, since I got sick of being disappointed every (frequent) time I couldn't view some simple internet site. The only bonus of the situation, is that I get to carry around a nice small candybar like the K750 instead of a brick. For me, that makes it worthwhile, since I don't know if I would carry a brick (especially the N90) even if it could view the sites properly.
|
ares
Joined: Dec 11, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Coimbra, Portugal
PM |
max, youīre banks must have really poor programers at their service...most portuguese banks have secure xhtml (or wap) sites running, and they all can be acessed from the k750
Hereīs an example http://m.bpinet.pt
|
mib1800
Joined: Mar 18, 2004
Posts: > 500
PM |
Quote:
|
On 2005-08-18 10:43:37, Arez wrote:
Right now, the k750 is able to use gps software, My Friends/Yamigo to acess msn, wlirc for IRC, with Opera Mini for html browsing, together with multitasking, fabulous 3d games (check the new Range Rover 3d - awesome!!! or motoracer 3d), and the well know great music and photo capabilities, all this in a small and light package, well, thereīs not much to miss from a smartphone 
As a bonus, you are imune to the plague of .sis virus that are spreading all over the place, at least here in Portugal lol
|
|
Opera Mini is unlike full Opera. It is not even a true browser per se. What Opera mini does is connect to proxy web server which will pre-download and convert the web pages into "suitable" format and sends it your phone. Essentially it is like taking a screen shot of the web page and your phone just display the screen shot.
Can you tell me what multi-tasking can you do. How about while you r typing a SMS, you open up EnglishPhrases dict and do a copy paste phrases to your SMS and while doing this open a Excel spreadsheet to check out certain info? Or how about running a background call manager program to automatically filter/answer/record/reject your calls? or how about using GPS to remind you of eating places once you drive into that location? Or how about playing Doom together with your friends over Bluetooth? Or how about doing a "Remote Desktop" of your PC sceen in your phone?
I think it is more appropriate to say - "you have no idea what you are missing if you think a smartphone is only as capable as a K750"
|
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Australia
PM, WWW
|
mib, I never said the K750 is as versatile as a smarphone. You are missing the point of my argument.I own a smartphone and I'm sick of people telling me what they can DO. I know what they are capable of.
I know my bank has a crap internet site, they should update, I agree. They won't listen to me though, funny that.
I'm not arguing that the K750 is better than a smartphone, I'm arguing that the whole smartphone/operator/website relationship has a little way to go before smartphones will be taken up in droves by the general public.
Personally, because I live in one part of many such places in the world that doesn't have cheap data, whose basic utility providers don't build xhtml websites, then there is virtually no point in me carrying around a brick because it doesn't bring me any closer to using the internet than I can on my K750. (as Arez says himself, he can browse his netbank on his K750, so that particular issue has nothing to do with smartphones as such, but it's still part of the bigger picture)
If I want to tweak I play with my XDA II, or jump on the laptop. If I'm on the move, then what my K750 can do (in a small form factor) is equal to my needs. I keep saying guys, you power users want everything all the time, and that's good, but the average joe doesn't want 500 applications installed on their phone. They'd much rather be able to view this or that website. Soon, even non-smartphones will be capable of that.
Opera Mobile Browser is for smartphones. Opera Mini is different, and is only available through some operators, but it only needs java and gprs, so normal phones such as K750 should be able to run opera mini. On the opera mini page, the only way to download is if I live in norway. The main page has a picture of a K750 ruinning opera mini, but doesn't offer a download? So I rely on my provider to supply it, if they see fit. See this is what I'm talking about.
Opera Mini is a step in the right direction, but all I'm trying to say is that for the next couple of years atleast, due to compatibility issues, before smartphone uptake really max's out.
When these compatibility etc issues are ironed out between the handset hardware, website providers, and mobile internet providers, THEN smartphones will become the norm. See I bloody agree with you guys, just I don't think the time is here and now for the average user.
But it's slowly getting there.
The smartphone advocates here just see red whenever an SE user claims that they still prefer a small form factor mobile over a brick smartphone!!!! So what? Surely I, and thousands of others, are entitled to expect more of basic internet services before we migrate to smartphones? My argument is not against smartphones as such, just against the fact that the internet services really only support the power of smartphones in some pockets of the world. The rest of us are stuck with sub-standard services.
As far as multi-tasking goes, nothing beats a smartphone, however the activity button on the K750 is a huge step not to be under-estimated. With it, I can do some basic multi-tasking, for example listen to music while taking photos, minimise applications/games/music player etc to access contacts/calender/send sms/make calls etc etc, then go back to the game or music. That's just a few examples. The K750 is actually streets ahead of all other non-smartphone handsets on the market.
|
ares
Joined: Dec 11, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Coimbra, Portugal
PM |
mib1800, youīre so smart omfg!!! Get a grip, i know all that nerdy stuff, but I DONīT NEED IT. Do you think most of us never played with a s60 device??? LOL
The kind of navigation opera mini gives is perfect for the majority, and the same goes to all the other stuff. It tells me nothing all that excell, diccionary, etc stuff I donīt need it
But you should know that the k750 permites bluetooth gaming as well, and that thereīs also a solution for remote desktop - but thatīs nerds stuff that iīm not interested lol
Why do you symbianites keep bragging about stuff the majority of people doesnīt want, doesnīt need??? Look, i could easily got a 6630 for less 100 euros than i got my k750, but i didnīt wanted it, because it offers no value for me
Max, i am in Portugal, no operator offers opera mini here, but i have installed it, and it runs perfectly
_________________
k750i + hbh 600
http://pbase.com/ares - photography by ares aka antonioj
[ This Message was edited by: Arez on 2005-08-19 10:04 ] |
mib1800
Joined: Mar 18, 2004
Posts: > 500
PM |
max_wedge:
Quote:
|
The smartphone advocates here just see red whenever an SE user claims that they still prefer a small form factor mobile over a brick smartphone!!!! |
|
I dont see red if you prefer K750. That's your prerogative. I only see red if you implied that K750 is as powerful as N90 or can do as much. Personally, I think N90 form-factor is not practical. I won't try to hide any of N90 shortcomings. Neither should SE fans tout the K750 to be in the same league as the N90. Or the fact that N90 is a 3G smartphone does not have any advantage over the K750 just because K750 is not a smartphone.
Arez:
Quote:
| Why do you symbianites keep bragging about stuff the majority of people doesnīt want, doesnīt need??? Look, i could easily got a 6630 for less 100 euros than i got my k750, but i didnīt wanted it, because it offers no value for me
|
|
Why do SE fans keep bragging about the K750 camera eventhough it is just slightly better than N90?? Why brag that K750 is as good a phone as a smartphone eventhough it is not??
Because you can't have it in your K750, doesnt mean you can make a generalisation that the majority doesnt need it. The questions is if these "majority" is made aware of these functionalities will they want it? Of course these "majority" would exclude you.
|
datx
Joined: Dec 15, 2004
Posts: 130
From: Portugal
PM, WWW
|
@mib1800 he wasn't comparing the k750i's camera to N90, he was "comparing", I say "comparing" cause he didn't mention it, u wroteit, the k750i's with the 6630's. And no K750i's is not slight better, it is much better (have u seen the GSMarena test already?)
And, Arez said it right, the majority of the users do not need to have exel in their phones (come on what's the point of making an exel file at a phone, with the crappy keyboard? read is ok but write...) u should just check the sales to confirm that! |
ares
Joined: Dec 11, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Coimbra, Portugal
PM |
mib1800, yes, k750 camera is slightly better, but k750 doesnīt have the hyped CZ lenses, weights much less, costs much less, has a much better battery life, has great sound - this doesnīt tell you anything???
the simple fact that the k750 combines a excelent camera + excelent multimedia player, in a package that can fit in a shirt pocket, puts it apart from any brick my friend, and that is undeniable.
You can argue what you want with nerdy smartphone capabilities, but you canīt beat the usefullness of the combination small form + small weight + great battery life + top multimedia abbilities of the k750 - in this n90 is indeed a worse phone |
goldenface
Joined: Dec 17, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Liverpool City Centre
PM |
Regarding Internet Banking on mobiles.
The requirement of a smartphone to do banking, and indeed the use of other services, will not be needed at all soon.
With O2 UK being licensed to supply I-Mode phones on its network, as from early next year, all this and more will be possible, and I look forward with interest to the handsets that will be appearing. I-Mode and 3G make a great partnership. Large screen 3G handsets will become very popular when this arrives.
This smartphone debate has been raging on, on Esato for ages.
The fact is advocates of smartphones will argue that they are better devices. Although only a very small majority of owners actually 'need' them.
The vast majority of smartphone owners have little knowledge on how to take advantage of the phones capabilities. |
korbindallis
Joined: Jun 18, 2004
Posts: > 500
PM |
Quote:
|
On 2005-08-17 17:09:54, Dicky Snapples wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2005-08-17 15:29:12, goldenface wrote:
@Ruudfood.
I agree with what you say. I can't think what market Blokia are aiming this product at.
@Dickysnapples
When the N90 is open, it is double the length of a P900, thats one big MF!
The reason why the P910 is the length it is is because it has incorporated that lovely big screen.
Whats the N90s excuse?
|
|
the  z1010 was around the same size as the Pxxx series when closed.i didnt hear anyone complaining then!
|
|
welll the z1010 is an old model its be replaced just take the new 3g k600 now what u got to say for that lol
[ This Message was edited by: korbindallis on 2005-08-19 15:58 ] |
Supa_Fly
Joined: Apr 16, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: Toronto, Ontario
PM, WWW
|
@Max, finally some1with a good point.!
Like the xda2, series60 comes witha built in browser which is kaka. Hence why Nokia is working with Apple for a replacement. In the meantime, there is Opera v8 and NetFront 3.2 browsers which use the java built into the phone to render what pages have coded. Now, if a page still wont render in either then it may be due to Flash encoding! Nothing mobile supports this currently. The N70 is better suited form factor to compare in size to the k750.
But then the small keypads are what limit smartphones for me, and bt keyboards that fold up will be needed for long emails. Word writers abound and are very capable! Im still angry with the memory format that Nokia had chosen, even after the previous one, mmc had lost to secure digital. |
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Australia
PM, WWW
|
Thanks guys, some common sense at last!
Hey Arez, can you point me towards a midp download of opera mini? It'd be very useful and make a smartphone even more useless too me!! |
dancingfate
Joined: Sep 25, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Jakarta, Indonesia
PM |
This is my experience :
When I was in a cellular shop buying my W800i two days ago - while I'm checking and trying the phone - someone came asking Nokia N90!!! Unfortunately this outlet has no stock of such phone. What makes me surprised is the price of N90. One day before, it costs Rp 7,800,000 but on that day the outlet guy told the customer who asked this phone the price is already drop to Rp 7,300,000 but his stock lasts (drop about USD 50 in only one day!!!)
So, I asked the outlet guy how many W800 and N90 are sold that day and he said that his outlet sold 3 units of W800 and none of N90 that day.
You know guys, in Indonesia, SE is runner-up in overall sales unit after Nokia... damn!!! Hope someday SE will be #1 again date back to the glorious days of Ericsson here.
W800 is a great phone man....
Apple iPhone 4, HTC Evo 3D, HTC Sensation, HTC Inspire 4G, HTC Desire S, HTC Wildfire, S001, SO905iCS, T650 (Gold & Green), C901, W800, K660, K700, Beibei (G702), Severine (DEAD) |
Cenfi
Joined: Jul 24, 2005
Posts: 129
From: Indonesia
PM |
pheeww wat a hot thread....
sorry nokia guys but i have to say tis... "don't always pushing u'r symbian phones against non symbian!", do it when have launched uiq 3 phones. it just like comparing playstation2 with desktop pc! geezzzz
My lovely phones  t610, k300, k700, p910 & w800  N9500 & HTC magician My less lovely phones Moto v3 & N6681 | |
|
Access the forum with a mobile phone via esato.mobi
|
Posted: 2005-08-18 12:54
t610, k300, k700, p910 & w800 
N9500 & HTC magician
