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Sony Ericsson should produce more mid-end symbian series 60 smartphones |
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
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From: Australia
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time will tell mib  People were saying "the time is now" 18 months ago, yet SE still seem confident of carving market share without diving into fully fledged smartphone production for the time being.
Personally I don't really care if it's uiq3, s60 or wm. To be honest, being predominately an intel/windows tech, I would prefer windows mobile but I haven't been impressed with the stability of XDA phones so that's a worry (so for now I lean towards uiq). This is what I mean by SE are hedging their bets. I'm guessing they want to make sure whatever smart platform they use it's going to last them into the future.
It's okay to say the time is now, but SE have to live with whatever market conditions exist in 5 - 10 years into the future. They are not going to sacrifice early sales now, for solid market share later. Obviously they want to make sure whatever they do will be a sound decision that they can build on, not a knee jerk reaction to what are still niche market forces.
I think this also explains why they haven't brought out an EDGE phone for the Indian market. As disappointing as that is for Indian SE fans, SE want to be best placed when 3G services start to become commonplace. I also think SE being a relatively new company, doesn't necessarily have the flexibility of production that Nokia or Motorola has. This is another reason they don't rush of and make a model to meet every niche market demand.
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mib1800
Joined: Mar 18, 2004
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max:
Your point is logical to a certain extent but imo, it applies less to SE. SE phones are marketed as higher price and higher-tech. Currently, it still has advantage in tech due to camera (i.e 2MP). But very soon (maybe 1 year) the camera megapixel chase would reach a plateau and the other manufacturers would eventually catch up. After this what's next? Maybe the next craze will be 3G/EDGE add-on services or smart personal/entertainment/interactive applications. And we all know that a smartphone would have great advantages to deploy and run these apps.
SE without a smartphone would lose the "high-tech image" because it does not have a phone that have the capability to meet this new demand. So maybe then, SE phones may be left to compete in the general "fashion" (aka small cutey clam) phone category. And we all know how SE sucks in this category.
a smartphone platform takes time to mature and stabilise. Look at series60 and WM. Both these have now overcome their growing up pain. Even if SE came out with UIQ3 this year, realistically, it may take up to 2-3 years to stabilise, gain acceptance and have enough software support. So the time has to be now in order to catch the next wave.
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max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
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From: Australia
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Hmmm, good points mate. I'm still sceptical 3G is just around the corner tho'. I would guess two-three years before it is common enough that SE will need to jump on the band wagon.
I base that on the slowness with which I've observed 3G spread so far, and reports I've read about the market impediments to 3G (High cost to implement, and network vendors not able to make enough money in the short term to make it worthwhile rolling out 3G on a large scale or at reasonable cost to the end user)
For example, we have 3G in Australia, but the data plans suck, VERY expensive. And data is a separate plan, so you can get calls and mms on one capped plan, but if you want to use their 384kbps internet you need to sign up for an expensive data plan as well.
I myself use 44kbps GPRS, it's the only affordable way unless you are very rich, crazy, or have a business use for it that makes it worthwhile. In some places 3G is cheap, but phone makers have to appeal to worldwide markets. |
mario2002
Joined: Feb 15, 2004
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From: Jeffrey's-Bay ,South Africa
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Actually there is a alternative - EDGE ! Same price/availability as GPRS and almost as fast as 3G ! Nokia saw the gap (with EDGE), took the chance and made/still makes the kill ! (check the share price and market share over the last 6months ! ) Greetings from South Africa. Mario :-)
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Supa_Fly
Joined: Apr 16, 2002
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From: Toronto, Ontario
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WOW, interesting thread.
About 3 years ago, I joined this site (I might be off on the date). I joined because I wanted to post a multitude of questions on my very 1st Ericsson phone, T18z (Fido network). I wasnt told about this site, and I didnt know anything about cellphones except from what I saw in Miami Vice, and the highrollers in my 'hood using the brick Moto's. I even imagined that it was magic, as back then I had no knowledge of anything technical. The purpose of my cellphone was to keep in touch with my girlfriend (now wife), while I was in school, as she was pregnant. Also to talk to friends & family, plus the status quo. I went looking for support sites for Ericsson phones.
Since then I worked as customer service, and more recently tech support in 2 wireless providers in Canada & the USA. The amazing things I've learned here on Esato; made me a cellphone whore!! My first true liason/fantasy/love of a cellphone was the T36 (which in exclusive quantities shipped in Europe), which was recently cancelled. Although the T28World was similar it didnt have the built-in IRDA & Bluetooth. Thus the perfect fit was the T39m which I owned 3 times!!! and never regretted it.
The things I've learned at the wireless providers I worked for astounded not only me but my friends, coworkers, and acquaintances. During that time, and even now I've helped them and many people here on Esato. Even the ones that thought they new it all about E or SE, they didnt know much about bluetooth. I still love SonyEricsson, but the features in phones since then haven't fullfilled my desires and needs.
Which brings me to this quote. [Quote=max_wedge] It's all a question of positioning. ... Nokia sell smartphones like potato chips, but many of those smart phones are used in no more complex ways than candybars like K500 etc.[/Quote] So absolutely right. But the game isnt just about SE and Nokia, there are others like Moto & HTC/MS.
Since the T36m, SE has released phones with the same features or better or more features in what we here would call basic phones. POP3/IMAP email access/polling, WAP 2.0/WML browsers, browser's now with HTML support (even if its light version). Also, with Bluetooth & IRDA, more recently since the T68 camera's just built-in and higher resolution with autofocus (k750), and now MP3 playback in the background with plane-mode. Nokia, has realized very early on that there are different demands in different markets, and different market segments. ie a 16yr old craving for mobile gaming = Ngage QD, an 18-32 year old that needs good phone for just calls, sms, mms, alarm/reminder/calender = 25-50 year olds, then those that need to access their email, manage a busy schedule, needs alarm, camera, wants the ability to surf html+javascript sights for quick information/transactions, wireless sync phonebook/calendar/notes/, also to install specific applications that do more or do better than what ships with the phone they've bought = 14 - 50 year olds. Now this all changes in Europe compared to Canada to USA to Africa to India.
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Supa_Fly
Joined: Apr 16, 2002
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From: Toronto, Ontario
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Nokia tried diligently to make the Ngage phones work, even price them very low, but it was little to late. Styling reduced it to a younger crowd for the most part, not enough data partnerships (worldwide various markets) to price Arena access for that market segment. Also portable gaming systems that just did that offered a better mobile experience. But MOSTLY, people that wanted to play mobile games, up till now, preferred java games that could be played on their phone of choice that had a much more functional design as a phone. They've learned from their mistake, harshly. But they can salvage. They released more accessories for those that still use the Ngage QD, and love it. Piracy of games was a huge marketing issue for them, but more a nightmare of their partners that made the games at their throats.
Now, their plan is to release more powerful Series60/Symbian phones (the Ngage /QD are Series60, btw). [Quote=Nokia Corporate]The goal is to have a broad spectrum of games to suit all tastes - from casual 'quick fix' gaming to more in-depth multi-user games. Currently consumers are often faced with a less than optimal mobile gaming experience, due in part to a lack of consistency. Hard to find and install games, game play is frequently disappointing and, therefore, consumer expectations are often not met.Now we want to expand rich, connected mobile gaming across the Nokia smarphone range. In 2005, we expect to sell 25 million smartphones and we see the global smartphone market exceeding 250 million devices in 2008.[/Quote]
Max as you said its a question about positioning. Those QD kids will grow up soon and want more than their limited Ngage's offer. Same goes for those other S60 users.
SE to use S60 would cost almost as much cash to license as WM 5.0 would, and they'd compete in a flooded sea of HTC devices which have a stronghold. Nokia doesnt make good S60 phones in Flip design, and non in slider design. SE could pick up this slack and make a killing.
PS; before this announcement, Nokia already announced that the S90 touchscreen features would trickle down to S60 platform for a suite of mobile phones. |
Evil Eye
Joined: Jun 23, 2004
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From: Pune, Maharashtra, India
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@prom Well said! :-)
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max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
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From: Australia
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@prom1 I'm hoping actually that SE are positioning UIQ3 for just the market you are talking about. I could see the S700/600 range (and K series too for that matter) being a prelude to a hard sceen UIQ3 range that could compete in the market segment you mention.
AS to UIQ3 or s60, I feel SE won't buy into that Nokia hedgonomy readily, and will only do so if they assess UIQ3 won't do it for them. They may have already made the decision, as we all know they don't reveal much.... 
My absolute most optimistic guess is that they won't actually translate that decision into production and handset sales for atleast the next 18months. It could be quite a bit longer.
SE smartphone growth in that segment will be in line with the uptake of 3G.
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Nokialoverx
Joined: Jun 17, 2005
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Se is losing! Hahahahahahaha
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vineet_d
Joined: Apr 15, 2004
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From: MumBhai
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Quote:
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On 2005-08-13 08:25:50, Nokialoverx wrote:
Se is losing! Hahahahahahaha
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What  |
Evil Eye
Joined: Jun 23, 2004
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From: Pune, Maharashtra, India
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Quote:
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On 2005-08-13 08:55:41, vineet_d wrote:
Quote:
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On 2005-08-13 08:25:50, Nokialoverx wrote:
Se is losing! Hahahahahahaha
This message was posted from a Nokia
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What
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The grip on the market.
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Cenfi
Joined: Jul 24, 2005
Posts: 129
From: Indonesia
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hmmm... i better get hp ipaq hw6515 than getting nokia series 60
i hate puttin my money on nokia's pocket
My lovely phones  t610, k300, k700, p910 & w800  N9500 & HTC magician My less lovely phones Moto v3 & N6681 |
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
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From: Australia
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They have responded to the market with a more varied line up than they have had done to date.
The various K series for mid range, the J series for low end, cheap handsets with limited features but aimed at a more specific market. For example, you can get a low end J series without camera or bluetooth, a K series with choice of vga to 2MP cams, 12MB to 40MB memory (and expansion on the K750), low end K series without bluetooth, high end K series with bluetooth and better mem, s series to appeal to those who don't like candy bar phones, f series (basically a mid range K with larger screen). The P and T series are in stasis - my guess P series will be replaced with high end smartphones (as opposed to low end smartphones that will start to come out eventually), and the T series will die out.
This is a much more varied line up than SE have managed so far. I think the writing is on the wall that SE are gearing up to compete with Nokia and Motorola in a serious way. I know it's only a start, but you guys who say SE are losing or not timely enough at bringing out smartphones forget that the market can change drastically in a short time frame. Even if SE struggle through for the next three years, as long as they are still a player they will be able to carve back market share with rockin' smart os phones once they are happy with the direction the market is going.
Their current J F and K series phones are a realistic attempt at attacking traditional Nokia markets to bring in the dough in the short term, in order to finance the development of their smart phone os and hardware. SE HAVE responded to the Nokia challenge.
They have heaps of time to get their shit together on smartphones, and I don't doubt that SE will be a strong force in the mobile phone market for a long time to come, and a thorn in the side of Nokia. |
Supa_Fly
Joined: Apr 16, 2002
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From: Toronto, Ontario
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@Max, I'm hoping your right. I figure if SonyEricsson comes up with something unique, like the Walkman lineup of phones, in respect to using UIQ3 - no touch screen - then we will see developers make apps. Remember how fast the K700i sold when it was released because of the clear camera & 3D java gaming? Now the s600, s550, W800 Walkman phones all have great camera's & offer a unique experience to the consumer. If any company can pull it off, its SE. You may be right that it may take another 18months. Lets just hope that isn't too long.
I'm concerned why the P-series was quietly discontinued. Was it because they see no benefit for making/selling a smartphone, or is it just because the "P" in the series has reached the end of the road. Maybe the 910 replacement is so significantly improved that it no longer will be considered a "P" series. I'm hoping for the latter. With the HTC Wizard on its way shortly, WM 5.0 will finally have a device offering WiFi b/g along with EGPRS in a Smartphone/PDA. Marry that with Windows Server 2003 & Outlook Exchange plus Push Email; even Nokia will have a fight on their hands! Hence why Nokia purchased licensing rights for MS' ActiveSync protocol.
The next big thing for Smartphones is Push Email, done right like BlackBerry's, and for complete data synchronization - even changing rules on what is sync'd - wirelessly (GPRS/EDGE/3G/WiFi) beyond what SyncML can offer, imho.
In April I bought a K700i for the wife, and from someone whom came from just making calls, she goes through MP3 Ringtones, Themes, and Pics like a player in heat! I just gotta convince here that the K750i is right for her, NOT the Razr, yuck.
I got the Nokia 6620 because I wanted EDGE data speeds for use as a modem, and to read html-based email. The latter I couldnt do natively, so I installed a 3rd party application to do just that.
Everyone elses' choices will vary greatly. The more choice we all have in a platform, the more benefit for both the company offering it and its consumers. Both Nokia & SE are doing this right with good research. I feel Motorola is trying to fill every void without researching. Style is their main appeal, that and press relationships. |
shyam335
Joined: May 25, 2004
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From: 127.0.0.1
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Well,I dont understand what u guys meaning by saying uiq3 will take 2 years to stabilise and so on.. Its supposed to be backward compaitable,so i belive there wont be a problem regarding the applications for uiq3.
There are a terrible lot of lies going around the world, and the worst of it is half of them are true - Winston Churchill
We shape our buildings; thereafter they shape us - Winston Churchill | |
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Posted: 2005-08-12 03:00
t610, k300, k700, p910 & w800 
N9500 & HTC magician
