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so who is religous here? |
Sammy_boy
Joined: Mar 31, 2004
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From: Staffordshire, United Kingdom
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@gelfen - well said (if a little long!  ), and I especially like the quote at the end - no idea who said it though!
Any chance of satisfying my curiosity? 
"All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke
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gelfen
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
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From: Melbourne, Australia
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@sammy: pm'd you. want to give the others a chance. 
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amnesia
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
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From: Doha, London, Tokyo, Shanghai
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@scotsboy, you're missing the point, he would give to the poor, but not 15% of his salary every few months as a tax to the poor.
I'm saying he couldn't follow that main rule if he was not a Muslim.
@gelfen, paying tax to the government that eventually goes to the poor is not the same. Firstly it is forced out of you, and secondly not all governments even give to the poor.
You have to do it out of your heart.
plus dont focus on just one thing that I've said, remember this is an example and my main point was that it would be impossible to be a person who does 'everything' a good Muslim should do.
One point you still missed out on, is in Judgement day you'd have to answer who you believe in and who is the last messenger.
(you can't lie)
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[ This Message was edited by: amnesia on 2005-08-02 10:54 ] |
Sammy_boy
Joined: Mar 31, 2004
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From: Staffordshire, United Kingdom
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I guess my answer to who I believe in would be no-one... therefore condemning me to hell, regardless of how good or bad I have otherwise lead my life for a long time by the sound of things.... not that I believe in 'heaven' and 'hell'.....
But I remember someone's signature on Esato (hasn't posted for a while, can't remember who!) saying something like 'maybe this is another planet's hell' - I think it was Aldous Huxley (sp?) that said it.
"All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke
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amnesia
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
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From: Doha, London, Tokyo, Shanghai
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exactly, so from your point of view, if you dont believe in heaven or hell, you have nothing to worry about.
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Sammy_boy
Joined: Mar 31, 2004
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From: Staffordshire, United Kingdom
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Quote:
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On 2005-08-02 12:23:22, amnesia wrote:
exactly, so from your point of view, if you dont believe in heaven or hell, you have nothing to worry about.
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I guess I can say then with some certainty that I'm not going to hell!
Although, the more I think of it, the more I think that we're ALL in hell already - the planet Earth! Look at all that's going on around us, climate change (unless your name's G. W. Bush) terrorism, famine, natural disasters, and endless 'reality' shows on the TV, you could argue that this is 'hell on Earth'.
Though having said that, I enjoy life, love and leading my life how I want to lead it, so perhaps 'hell on Earth' is subjective, it depends on your viewpoint and if that glass if half empty or half full.
"All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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From: UK
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@gelfen
Babylon 5?
@amnesia
For all you know I may give more than 15% of my earnings to the poor. I don't discuss money in public, I find it to be a very vulgar subject, but suffice to say that I do help charity.
As for a Judgement Day, that is something I believe in. The Tao that I follow is impartial, the Tao takes no side and does not judge. As a Taoist I believe that when I 'die' I will transform into the Tao once more. We are already of the Tao, but the illusion of this world prevents many from seeing that.
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"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2005-08-02 12:44 ] |
vanquish
Joined: Mar 20, 2003
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S t a r W a r s IS A FILM!!!
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solidsingh
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
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From: india
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in sikhism , we are in a kind of hell, we believe in reincarnation and if you wanna break the cycle to move into heaven you have to be a good sikh and have amrit.
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amnesia
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
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From: Doha, London, Tokyo, Shanghai
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for all i know, yes, but again i'm stressing that there are two points, you have to do it with the intent in your heart, and I see it as impossible to fulfill all of the rules without knowing them.
Again, you missed what I said that you have to still answer who you believe in, in judgement day.
I also said that I believe that there are some that will go to heaven but only after suffering in hell first.
1 second = 1 year in hell or something like that.
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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From: UK
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@amnesia
I give to charity because I want to help people. I could do that with the same intent whether I was a Taoist, Muslim, Christian, Buddhist or anything else. No one religion or philosophy has a monopoly on helping others.
I already explained my views on Judgement Day i.e. I don't believe in a Judgement Day. Taoism does not view right and wrong in the same manner as Islam, Taoists do not deal in absolutes. There is no God in Taoism who will judge people, there is the Tao. The Tao does not judge nor does it take sides, it is impartial.
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"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2005-08-02 12:52 ]
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2005-08-02 12:52 ] |
gelfen
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
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From: Melbourne, Australia
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Quote:
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On 2005-08-02 13:11:17, amnesia wrote:
...I see it as impossible to fulfill all of the rules without knowing them. |
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why not? if a person was naturally charitable and pure of heart i don't think it could be beyond them.
i do realise i'm beating this into the ground, but i suppose this point (and the specific exclusion of the Jews) caught my attention.
@scots: yep, you got it. when i first heard those lines i thought it was a very good description of how i felt.
you know, i thought what i said would provoke more of a response than it did....perhaps i'm just too way out there. 
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amnesia
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
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From: Doha, London, Tokyo, Shanghai
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because there are some things that some might not think about.
The odds of someone knowing it all without having heard of the rules is extraordinary.
E.g. you cannot take interest in a loan. Not many people would know that rule.
My point is, (you cant argue small technicalities within a religion)
if it comes to a point where there is a low discrepancy then God will not choose the negative but the positive side.
Again, I repeat, you will still be judged and asked who is your God, and who is the messenger, you wont be able to answer those questions if you dont believe in Islam.
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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From: UK
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@amnesia
I could be wrong, but Christians aren't supposed to take interest from a loan either, although that rule isn't strictly observed today.
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
gelfen
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Melbourne, Australia
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@scots: i'm not too sure about that. however, i don't think it's possible to get a lone from anyone these days without interest (even if it's not actually called that).
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Posted: 2005-08-02 10:33
