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arnoldc
Joined: Dec 14, 2001
Posts: > 500
From: Philippines
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EDGE can only triple the rate of existing TDMA (GSM) technology, and that is around 300kbps.
CDMA 2000 1xEV-DO can have peak rates of 2mbps, with sustained rates of 700kbps.
isn't it obvious which one is 3G?
in addition, ITU created a standard called IMT-2000 which is all based on CDMA, NOT GSM. Only three modes are identified which are WCDMA, CDMA2000 and TD-SCDMA.
EDGE enhances GSM, which is not 3G, so EDGE is not 3G.
the first 3G network to become online was SK Telecom in Korea, on October 1, 2000. followed by LG Telecom and KTF in May 1, 2001. they all use CDMA 2000. Japan's NTT DoCoMo followed late October 1, 2001 using WCDMA.
as of december 2003, KDDI in Japan has more than 11 million subscribers in its CDMA 2000 network, while DoCoMo has a lousy 1.8 million subscribers on their WCDMA network. the largest of them all is S. Korea which has almost 25 million subscribers on their CDMA 2000 network, over 4 million of those are enjoying CDMA 2000 1xEV-DO.
all in all CDMA 2000 subscribers is about 68 million, while WCDMA subscribers are about 3 million.
you can see the obvious acceptance and domination of the 3G CDMA 2000 over the 3G WCDMA. | |
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abaya
Joined: Nov 11, 2003
Posts: 1
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Are u saying that Nokia or the ITU is lying? EDGE and WCDMA are both 3G technology... Arnold, read the lines below "EDGE has been adopted as part of ITU's (International Telecommunication Union) family of 3G technologies"
EDGE (Enhanced Data Rates for Global Evolution) is a 3G radio technology standardized by ITU and 3GPP, built on the existing GSM/GPRS network with minor additions relating to the air interface.
EDGE capability can be easily upgraded to existing GSM/GPRS networks using appropriate software. GPRS on average triples the current GPRS data rates and the capacity of each hardware and frequency channel, enabling lower usage cost for existing end-user services, as well as the new advanced services delivery over GSM bands, such as video streaming.
EDGE enables advanced mobile services to all end-user segments, creating revenue generation over a wide customer base. Due to its high data rates, EDGE has been adopted as part of ITU's (International Telecommunication Union) family of 3G technologies. Currently, EDGE is standardized by the same 3GPP standardization body as the other 3G technology, WCDMA, harmonizing the development of both EDGE and WCDMA, and bringing the service delivery capabilities of 3G to EDGE as well. With an average of triple the data rates with EDGE, Nokia customers in Europe, Asia and Americas have already confirmed the promise of the GSM industry.
All major operators and equipment vendors support GSM/EDGE standardization. All major GSM manufacturers have publicly confirmed that they will employ EDGE technology. Several terminal vendors, including Nokia, are also scheduled to bring dual mode GSM/EDGE terminals to the market starting in 2002 and multi-mode GSM/EDGE/WCDMA terminals to market sometime during 2003-2004. By 2004, virtually all new Nokia GPRS phones will have EDGE.
Read about Nokia GSM/GPRS/EDGE.
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ex_crusader
Joined: Apr 28, 2003
Posts: 9
From: Philippines?
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i agree that WCDMA is 3G, but EDGE. EDGE as i said was only an enhancement of GSM/GPRS. kahit ano pang paliwanag ang sabihin nila. i, on the other hand, also agree that CDMA 2000 is widely accepted, far more than WCDMA when it comes to 3G... uh, by the way, korea is already conducting studies about 4G... |
abaya
Joined: Nov 11, 2003
Posts: 1
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I respect what you choose to believe... But unless you show me a statement / proof from any standards creating organization(ex: ITU, FCC or IEEE) that EDGE is not a 3G technology, then that will be the time I believe you.
EDGE is not an enhancement of your existing GPRS system, rather an upgrade should be done to the existing GPRS system to make the exisitng GPRS system capable of EDGE. There is a difference between enhancement and upgrade.
I know that EDGE and CDMA and WCDMA are three different technologies but each meets the minimum requirement for it to be considered a 3G.
[ This Message was edited by: abaya on 2004-02-07 16:18 ] |
Lumberjack94
Joined: Feb 08, 2004
Posts: 1
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Globe SUCKS kasi sinarado nila lahat ng wap sites except ung bulok na home site nila. |
xxkennethxx
Joined: Dec 18, 2003
Posts: 89
From: Laguna, Philippines
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Quote:
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On 2004-02-08 09:43:07, Lumberjack94 wrote:
Globe SUCKS kasi sinarado nila lahat ng wap sites except ung bulok na home site nila.
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hmmmm bulok na din yung sinasabi mo na topic... ahehehe joke lang!
Same Shit Different Day! |
GOwin
Joined: Jan 17, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: .uʍop ǝpısdn s&
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re Globe shutting off all other wapsites
not true. there are still other accessible wapsites other than globe's homepage. that makes your premise all wrong. 
re EDGE as 3G
it's confusing, i agree. but once you recognize what UMTS's IMT2000 (which is 3G. Period.) is all about then it would be easier to digest why EDGE cannot be 3G.
why is EDGE being confused as 3G?
For one, simply because EDGE is capable of the the minimum cut-off rate of 144kbps for 3G data rates as define by the IMT-2000.
the International Telecommunication Union (ITU) only serves as the arbiter of 3G standards. It does not define 3G in terms of channel width or spectrum allocation, but rather data rates. By ITU definition, the 3G RF interface can deliver data rates of 144 kbps or greater. The ITU recognizes W-CDMA (UMTS) and CDMA2000 1X as meeting this criterion.
If EDGE is capable of meeting that minimum data rates for 3G, why is it not considered as 3G then?
to be simplistic about one of the many reasons, it's because 3G has been defined to use a different spectrum. One that isn't used in the current GSM system frequencies (900, 1800, 1900mhz.) 3G spectrum has been defined as 1885-2025 MHz (IMT-2000 systems), 1980-2010 MHz, 2170-2200 MHz (the satellite portion of UMTS systems.)
what is the migration path from 2G to 3G?
GSM>TD-SCDMA the China solution
GSM>GPRS>EDGE>W-CDMA
GSM>GPRS>W-CDMA
CDMAone(IS-95a)>CDMAone(IS-95b)>CDMA2000
if EDGE is 3G, then the migration should've ended there. But as it is, it only offers upgrade/enhancement of the existing wireless data service (GPRS).
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ex_crusader
Joined: Apr 28, 2003
Posts: 9
From: Philippines?
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very well said GOwin
@ abaya
uhmm... EDGE (enhanced data rates for GSM/global evolution), sige nga, tell me the difference of upgrade and enhance, and which one is really suitable to use for this particular issue. just let me make this clear .. " i mean no war, argument or whatsoever ".
but on the second thought, you need not to tell me the difference, for i know their meanings. pero, di ba nga, GPRS is 'enhanced' by 'upgrading' the GSM to EDGE? ok, ok... so much about it... enough na. |
adv99576
Joined: Mar 01, 2003
Posts: 2
From: philippines
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reply lang ako dun sa reply ni GOwin.
3G is gonna be used on different spectrums (dun sa hindi pa ginagamit ngayon), yun ang general idea ni GOwin. GOwin even specified the frequencies.
pero GOwin, you forgot that CDMA2000 (a 3G standard that even you accept), is gonna be used on 800 and 1900 Mhz. remember that those spectrums are being used today by 1G and 2G systems.
so kung ang premise mo ay "3G will be used on NEW spectrum/frequencies", baka kailangan tignan mo ulit ung premise mo.
WCDMA is gonna be used on those NEW spectrum you specified, tama ka dun.
pero CDMA2000 is gonna be used on existing spectrum, in very much the same way that EDGE is also gonna be used on EXISTING GSM frequencies.
bottom line ko lang, kung DATA RATES (minimum, if you want it that way) ang pag-uusapan, then EDGE is just as qualified as WCDMA and CDMA2000.
siguro lang, nalilito ka kasi you limit yourself to the idea of "new spectrum" and WCDMA (or UMTS) as the only 3G.
balik sa EDGE, it doesn't necessarily mean that migration of GSM operators has to stop with EDGE kung 3G nga yun. the GSM operators were caught in a dilemma when it became more evident that CDMA is better for 3G than TDMA. pero GSM operators also can't accept the fact that cdmaOne operators will be the benefactors since they have all the experience, making CDMA2000 really the most efficient implementation of 3G.
para labanan yun, the association of GSM operators pushed for a new CDMA-based standard called WCDMA. ang problema lang with WCDMA, it would be very expensive kasi nga NEW SPECTRUM ang kailangan (kaya mahal, kasi "bibili" pa sila ng additional frequency from the government regulators.) tapos, expensive lalo ang WCDMA dahil bagong network designing, planning, and implementation na naman ang gagawin. kung titignan mong mabuti, parang back to square one sila.
so, GSM operators had to find a way na magamit ang existing spectrum/frequencies/network equipment na hawak nila ngayon, to save their investments. that's why they came up with EDGE. EDGE was intended to be used on existing GSM frequencies/spectrum/network, pero they had to make it meet the MINIMUM data speeds as required by ITU, para nga masabing 3G ito.
ITU is the arbiter cos its the one that specifies the standards/requirements. now, it doesn't necessarily mean that WCDMA/UMTS is the ONLY 3G standard. cos as it is, both CDMA2000 and EDGE also meet the minimum data rates.
peace out =)
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[ This Message was edited by: adv99576 on 2004-02-08 20:04 ] |
arnoldc
Joined: Dec 14, 2001
Posts: > 500
From: Philippines
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as if i did not know about that nokia EDGE press release.
believe what you believe. |
abaya
Joined: Nov 11, 2003
Posts: 1
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Thanks Gowin and adv99576 for the detailed informations....
Below are some important facts about EDGE and 3G:
EDGE is a new air-interface technology, to offer third-generation data rates for the global evolution of GSM and TDMA to 3G. EDGE uses 16 Quadrature Amplitude Modulation (16QAM), rather than normal GSM Gaussian modulation shift keying (GMSK). This will offer 48 kbits/s per GSM timeslot.
The catch is that EDGE requires higher radio signal quality than that found in an average GSM network before higher data throughput can be reached. This means more base stations (especially indoor) and infrastructure build-out for established GSM operators that wish to migrate to EDGE
EDGE enables services like multimedia emailing, Web infotainment and video conferencing to be easily accessible from wireless terminals. EDGE is designed for migration into existing GSM and TDMA networks, enabling operators to offer multimedia and other IP-based services at speeds of up to 384 kbits/s (possibly 473 kbits/s in the future) in wide area networks. An important attraction of EDGE is the smooth evolution and upgrade of existing network hardware and software, which can be introduced into an operator's current GSM or TDMA network in existing frequency bands.
Press Release from Nokia:
"A major benefit of EDGE is that it enables existing TDMA carriers as well as GSM carriers to offer 3G services while still realizing lower costs due to higher spectral efficiency and higher data rates," says Terri Beck, Vice President, Nokia Networks. "Nokia believes that a single network solution offering GSM/GPRS/EDGE and WCDMA will allow carriers to benefit from GSM global economies of scale, including higher revenue streams, increased network efficiency and lower overall costs.
Offering GSM enhanced with GPRS and EDGE will bring new 3G opportunities to carriers operating in the 800, 900, 1800 and 1900 MHz bands and will enable full global roaming between the Americas, Europe and Asia.
Hope this will end the confusion...
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GOwin
Joined: Jan 17, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: .uʍop ǝpısdn s&
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this discussion about 3G has been interesting but is already off the main topic of this thread.. If any of you wish to continue discussing this matter, please feel free to use the more appropriate threads:
- What is 3G?
-GPRS and moving forward...
- EDGE?
- Is GSM or W-CDMA the future?
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duo_m
Joined: Nov 29, 2003
Posts: 198
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all that you said were informative but my question is: would i, an "average" frequent texter and sometime caller, benefit from all of this? i use wap over gprs to check e-mails which are only text, but before gprs, i was happy with wap over gsm. is 3g technology all that's hyped up to be? i mean gsm is still the global standard and still being widely used and popular as opposed to gprs... |
arnoldc
Joined: Dec 14, 2001
Posts: > 500
From: Philippines
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please stick to topic from here on. |
ynohtna
Joined: Dec 27, 2002
Posts: 278
From: PH
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EDITED by GOwin for posting an off-topic reply
[ This Message was edited by: GOwin on 2004-02-14 23:36 ] | |
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Access the forum with a mobile phone via esato.mobi
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Posted: 2004-02-06 11:14
