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so who is religous here? |
PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: The Ummah
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Doesn't matter how these words are spelt or spoken, we know what they imply don't we !!
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PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
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From: The Ummah
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Another verse from the Holy Quran, Chapter 31 states:
Do ye not see that Allah (God) has subjected to your (use) all things in the heavens and on earth, and has made his bounties flow to you in exceeding measure, (both) seen and unseen? Yet there are among men those who dispute about Allah, without knowledge and without guidance, and without a Book to enlighten them!
When they are told to follow the (Revelation) that Allah has sent down, they say: "Nay, we shall follow the ways that we found our fathers (following). "What! even if it is Satan beckoning them to the Penalty of the (Blazing) Fire?
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joebmc
Joined: Jan 03, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Kent
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Quote:
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On 2005-07-14 21:42:51, scotsboyuk wrote:
Can I have volunteers for the following please?
Baha'i
Buddhism
Christianity
Catholic
Christian Science
Eastern Orthodox
Mormon
Protestant
Quaker
Falun Gong
Hinduism
Islam (although Peter Kay has already given us a wonderful insight into Islam)
Jainism
Judaism
Nation of Islam
Pagan & Earth-Based
Scientology
Secular Philosophies
Shinto
Sikhism
Taoism (I shall volunteer for this one)
Unitarian Universalist
Zoroastrianism
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I think the "HAITIAN VOODOO RELIGION" should be added to the list, 
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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Quote:
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On 2005-07-20 15:57:17, 786KBR wrote:
Thats a stupid excuse!
Why then dont they say BYEBEL, you cant change the name!!
its also the same Quraan, thats how it should be and how it should be said!!
So i take it thats how the word "moslem" came about to???
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I really don't want to sound sarcastic, but if you think about this it is actually very simple. A country like the UK is already familiar with the word 'Bible', the word 'Quoran' is less familiar. As amnesia pointed out earlier, words are pronounced differently in different countries.
'Quroan' would most likely be pronounced 'Kworan' by many British people instead of 'Koran'.
Foreign words are often changed to look more native over time. It is neither an insult nor laziness, it is just how language tends to work. Just as Japanese people tend to alter some English words so do some non-English words become Anglicised.
I would doubt that 'Bible' ever would be spelt as 'Byebel' since that isn't how it sounds. A more logical change would perhaps be 'Bibul' if one thinks as to how the word is pronounced.
Words can and do change over time. Language is like that. Some cultures have difficulty in pronouncing certain sounds whilst others just don't use certain sounds very much. This has an affect on how words are written and it really shouldn't be taken as an insult.
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"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2005-07-20 17:12 ] |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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Quote:
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I think the "HAITIAN VOODOO RELIGION" should be added to the list,
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Feel free to post some information on Haitian Voodoo. 
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
amnesia
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Doha, London, Tokyo, Shanghai
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so the media should try to education them right?
I'm sure they could just type Quraan (Koran) a few times until the word was well know.
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gelfen
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Melbourne, Australia
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i'm sure they could, and i know some do, but language (all over the world) doesn't work that way. anglicisation of words in english is basically just a phonetic rather than literal translation. it happens with names all the time.
e.g. Jacques - Jack, Marie - Mary, Henri - Henry, Petr - Peter, Wilhelm - William.
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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@amnesia
gelfen is quite correct. It isn't really so much about educating people as different cultures taking on and modifying aspects of other cultures.
English itself is a hodge podge of different languages and has influences from several different sources. It has often taken words and changed them, such as the names gelfen mentioned.
When a culture is presented with a word that uses sound or letter combinations it doesn't normally use then it isn't entirely uncommon for that culture to modify the word. The Japanese, for example, seem to have difficulty in pronouncing the letter 'l' and often substitute an 'r' in its place.
Similarly in English when a word is met, which uses an unfamiliar letter combination for a sound that letter combination may be changed to something more in keeping with English. So 'Jacques' becomes 'Jack' and 'Quoran' becomes 'Koran'. It is merely a cultural idiosyncracy. There is really very little that one can do about it in practical terms.
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"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2005-07-21 01:47 ] |
JK
Joined: Feb 24, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: S. Africa - JOZI
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[ This Message was edited by: 786KBR on 2005-07-21 08:41 ] |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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A thought from the Tao Te Ching:
Ambush
There is a saying among soldiers:
It is easier to lose a yard than take an inch.
In this manner one may deploy troops without marshalling them,
Bring weapons to bear without exposing them,
Engage the foe without invading them,
And exhaust their strength without fighting them.
There is no worse disaster than misunderstanding your enemy;
To do so endangers all of my treasures;
So when two well matched forces oppose eachother,
The general who maintains compassion will win.
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
amnesia
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Doha, London, Tokyo, Shanghai
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i can tell you that in ALL arabic countries, we ALWAYS write the word as it should be. Guess we care. Doesn't take alot to show a bit of respect.
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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From: UK
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@amnesia
Please do not turn this thread into some petty squabble because you do not seem to understand the concept of Anglicisation. As I have repeatedly said there is no disrespect intended, it is merely a different custom than is used in your country.
Just as one may think it strange that a Japanese audience should sit in silence after a great performance, it is their custom. They do that to show that they thought the performance was good. It is not our way, but it is their's.
Similarly English often changes words. Now either accept that and stop creating a silly argument over absolutely nothing or simply don't post on the subject anymore.
Altering the spelling of words has happened in English for centuries. It is how English operates, it adopts words and makes them its own. Arabic countries may very well translate words literally, but English speaking countries tend not to, especially when the words come from languages, which do not use the Latin alphabet.
If disrespect was intended then I imagine that people would write Koran with a small 'k' as the communists used to do with religious words in the U.S.S.R. Taoism can be spelt as both Taoism and as Daoism, there is no disrespect intended in using one over the other, it is more a matter of, which is more popular with certain people. Different countries tend to prefer certain ways of writing things and so words take on those characteristics. If Arabic countries prefer direct translations then fine, no one is saying they shouldn't. However, some countries don't, they modify words to make them more recognisable and easier to pronounce.
Just because someone doesn't do something the way you think it should be done does not make it wrong. Isn't that part of what we have been learning about in this thread, to accept others' values and not to judge based on our own preconceptions?
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"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2005-07-21 12:44 ] |
PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: The Ummah
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Come on Boys, lets keep it clean
As verse 58 from Chapter 36 from the Holy Quran states:
"Peace!" - a word (of salutation) from a Lord Most Merciful!
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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@PeterKay
It is perfectly clean.
I think this is actually a key point in why people seem to find disrespect to their beliefs in so many ways. Most of the time disrespect really is not intended, it is more a case of cultural differences.
There are a fantastic array of different cultures throughout the world and many of them have very different ways of looking at things.
When I was in South Africa earlier this year I took a tour of Soweto. My driver was a smashing chap named Billy. Well actually he wasn't named Billy, that's just the thing. His real name was difficult for me to pronounce so he said that I should call him Billy instead because I could pronounce that more easily. I certainly tried to pronounce his name, but he understood that it was difficult for me. He understood that in using the sobriquet of Billy I was not being disrespectful towards him, rather I was not insulting him by constantly pronouncing his name ioncorrectly.
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
amnesia
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Doha, London, Tokyo, Shanghai
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@scot,
It's not squabling when the topic is important to me.
If its important to me, you can be sure there are others that want the same thing.
Sometimes you're comments really aggrivate me since it seems like you are trying to force me to think a different way.
You have to remember the words already are in English.
So we've already written it for people to understand.
We dont write in English, so when we say Quraan, we've already ' anglicanized' it.
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[ This Message was edited by: amnesia on 2005-07-21 14:08 ] | |
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Posted: 2005-07-20 16:04
