| Author |
No edge support in SE phones |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
PM, WWW
|
Quote:
|
On 2005-05-05 06:20:23, Dr.pratikB. wrote:
@scotboyuk, dont try to underestimate india.For your kind information,we indians are buying more highend phones than any other market.Nokia has said in It's official statement that there recent high end models have sold better in india than in any other market.
This message was posted from a Nokia
|
|
This quote will do nicely to answer those who seem to have read my last post in this thread, but not actually taken any meaning from it.
I am not saying that high-end phones will not sell in India or that SE shouldn't try to cater to the Indian market. However, SE is not in the same league as Nokia when it comes to manufacturing products, they simply don't produce the same number of handsets in the same quantities.
SE also concentrate very much on mid to high-end products and they very much aim their limited production capacity at those markets, which have a track record of buying the type of products SE sell.
Look at SE's target customer base, it is comprised of mature mobile markets, not developing ones. SE have to safeguard their position within their core markets, which means adapting to those markets. In this case that entails the adoption of 3G because that is what Europe and Japan use. Perhaps when SE has grown more and is able to sustain a more diverse portfolio of products it can offer specific solutions tailored to particular regions outside of its core markets, but until then you are very unlikely to see very many EDGE enabled handsets from SE.
If SE thought that India could sustain a large high-end phone market then I am quite sure they would have more India specific products on sale. One only has to look at the U.S. to see a country much richer than India that SE isn't bothering about for similar reasons. The majority of Americans aren't buying expensive high-end handsets, so there isn't the same sort of sustanability for that market as there is in Europe and Japan, hence SE have few products on sale in North America.
_________________
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2005-05-05 05:44 ] | |
|
whizkidd
Joined: May 14, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: India
PM, WWW
|
Scots, the problem is, when the k750 is launched here, it falls straight in the price bracket of the likes of the 6630. Now given a choice, people would definitely choose 6630 over the k750 because of: 1) Edge support. 2)Smartphone ability. 3)Cheaper external memory...... I am with you on the point that SE doesn't have the resources to produce handsets on the same scale as nokia, BUT.. How much of SE's resources would it have taken to make these new phones Edge compatible?
T230 >> T610 >> Ngage QD >> N73 >> N85 >> Omnia HD >> And countless other review units |
Supa_Fly
Joined: Apr 16, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: Toronto, Ontario
PM, WWW
|
Quote:
|
On 2005-05-05 06:43:30, scotsboyuk wrote:
This quote will do nicely to answer those who seem to have read my last post in this thread, but not actually taken any meaning from it.
I am not saying that high-end phones will not sell in India or that SE shouldn't try to cater to the Indian market. However, SE is not in the same league as Nokia when it comes to manufacturing products, they simply don't produce the same number of handsets in the same quantities.
SE also concentrate very much on mid to high-end products and they very much aim their limited production capacity at those markets, which have a track record of buying the type of products SE sell.
Look at SE's target customer base, it is comprised of mature mobile markets, not developing ones. SE have to safeguard their position within their core markets, which means adapting to those markets. In this case that entails the adoption of 3G because that is what Europe and Japan use. Perhaps when SE has grown more and is able to sustain a more diverse portfolio of products it can offer specific solutions tailored to particular regions outside of its core markets, but until then you are very unlikely to see very many EDGE enabled handsets from SE.
If SE thought that India could sustain a large high-end phone market then I am quite sure they would have more India specific products on sale. One only has to look at the U.S. to see a country much richer than India that SE isn't bothering about for similar reasons. The majority of Americans aren't buying expensive high-end handsets, so there isn't the same sort of sustanability for that market as there is in Europe and Japan, hence SE have few products on sale in North America.
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2005-05-05 05:44 ]
|
|
Nice post; however the flaw is in what you already said. If SE makes the marketing decision that high end phones arent purchased by Americans (dont know if you mean only the USA or the entire North America = Canada,USA,Mexico) or even lets include South Americans. Then of course we wouldnt be able to purchase those high-end phones. SE p800/900/910a, z500a/s710a have ALL been available by wireless providers subsidzied to be purchased by new customers or even as upgrades. However, SE doesnt ship phones available in Europe markets to authorized retailers (open market) & actually support them. This affects their bottom line.
Many owners of the p910a have gone onto more advanced products; even if the camera resolution is no better. But synchronization, email support, application support is much better.
Personally I love SE's simplistic yet professional design, but they need to offer more value & features in their products. Example, the p900 is what the p800 should've been (cant say professionals felt "Pro" carrying the p800 with its kiddish colours). The p910a features (MS Pro support, 256K screen) should've been in the p900!! Remember they've been playing with this type of concept for many years (Think: r380 with EPOC os?). They built in keyboard was to fight the success of the Treo/BlackBerry of no doubt.
They shouldnt try to be Nokia but they shouldnt try to be Siemens either - their backing out!!
[ This Message was edited by: Prom1 on 2005-05-05 06:25 ] |
Supa_Fly
Joined: Apr 16, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: Toronto, Ontario
PM, WWW
|
This is a verbatim of what I posted in another thread as to why SE should implement EDGE in their products more.
http://www.3g.co.uk/PR/March2005/1186.htm (EDGE spreading throughout the Americas) dated March 14, 2005. This link lists that EDGE covers 93% or the Canadian population = potentially 250 million people. Futhermore, Mexico also implemented EDGE and available to potential 29 million people; along with another 8 Latin American countries. EDGE is adopted by 154 operators in 87 countries together offering potentially 1 quarter billion customers. I think that is enough reason for EDGE to be implemented, maybe along with European 2100mhz UMTS at least for Europe/Asia/African nations (yes Africa does have EDGE).
On a competitiveness angle SE makes only 5(s710a, 3data cards, z500 - no its not discountinued) products that have EDGE, while Nokia makes (6630/6680/6681/6682/6620/6220/6221) an estimate of 7+. Of those at least 3 of those products offer EDGE & UMTS, not all potential users will stay in their geographical market for the products lifespan, and thus may travel to Canada/USA/Mexico.
Cingular in the US is already testing UMTS for both North America's 850+1900Mhz bands. They have an existing infrastructure for EDGE in the majority of their coverage. SE could manufacture UMTS for the Americas for these existing bands.
Sure EDGE is slower than UMTS however it is cheaper for manufacturers to implement in products & for carriers to deploy. Besides do those of you loving UMTS data speeds, would you prefer your QoS (Quality of Service) to drop to GPRS speeds instead of EDGE? Sure UMTS coverage is extensive in Europe & most of Asia, but don't expect it in the Americas for another 2 years at best for most coverage areas.
BTW gov, EDGE works on 850 in Canada currently with Rogers & 850/1900mhz in the USA with Cingular/AT&TWireless. |
Dr.pratikB.
Joined: May 03, 2005
Posts: 127
PM |
Nokia also sells 3220 and 6230.These phones also have edge.Even newer smartphones like N3230 and N7710 has got edge..@agree with you whiz.Noone who has used nokia phone will think about k750.everyone will think that when 6630 is full fledged smart phone with future proof 3G technology,why invest 23+k in a old tech.phone
This message was posted from a Nokia |
clank
Joined: Sep 24, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: India
PM, WWW
|
I'm afraid the die hard se fans would never acknowledge the fact that se lacks foresight. You people are saying se are concentrating on 3g...I DONT think so. Nokia have 2 3g smartphones have and more announced...se have their z1010/z800 both of which are normal phones with exceptionally bad value for money. They havent even announced the next p series yet...Provided its 3g its gonna take an eon before se have their first proper 3g phone in the market. And before you point it out, the k600 is another worthless phone...3g speeds but fixed memory, how very thoughtful. If they had foresight they would have released s60 style smarts. The ire you see is not because we're not being catered too...its because what i regard as the brand with the most potential for quality products has decided to adopt suicidal marketing...actually its not anger, its disappointment...just disappointing to see newbies like lg leave se behind. |
whizkidd
Joined: May 14, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: India
PM, WWW
|
Also, if 3G is SE's main concern, why are there only three 3G phones in europe? I'm not counting japan. Why is se still launching plain gsm phones with no 3G possibility? Their flagship models are still 2.5G!
T230 >> T610 >> Ngage QD >> N73 >> N85 >> Omnia HD >> And countless other review units |
dave_uk
Joined: Mar 06, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: London, UK
PM |
Unbelievable! This thread is basically inspired by arrogance. The 10, 15 or 20 people you may know who haven't bought an  handset due to lack of EDGE support is not really a compelling reason for to do so, now is it?!
How many times does it need to be said - SE do not have more EDGE products because they don't feel (with the considerable amount more than you lot that they will presumably have spent on researching it!) that it is beneficial to them. Get over it - if you want a phone with EDGE, buy one of the Nokias that you visionaries so appreciate.
And incidentally, I don't think anyone is advocating that they concentrate on 3G (I believe I even said previously that UMTS may well be superceded in the not-too-distant future) simply that they are unlikely to focus on a market that will only ever be used temporarily and outside SE's key markets.
This argument (if you can even call it that) has been done to death previously and since the same opinions are simply being re-written because you're so convinced that your markets do deserve SE investment, I can't really see the point of continuing it!
|
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
PM, WWW
|
Quote:
|
On 2005-05-05 12:46:00, clank wrote:
They havent even announced the next p series yet...Provided its 3g its gonna take an eon before se have their first proper 3g phone in the market. And before you point it out, the k600 is another worthless phone...3g speeds but fixed memory, how very thoughtful. If they had foresight they would have released s60 style smarts. The ire you see is not because we're not being catered too...its because what i regard as the brand with the most potential for quality products has decided to adopt suicidal marketing...actually its not anger, its disappointment...just disappointing to see newbies like lg leave se behind.
|
|
There has already been a lengthy discussion on the need for SE to release more smartphones, which basically ended in the general consensus that smartphones will become a major force in the market, but not for some time yet. Currently smartphones only account for approximately 4% of the total market. The simple fact of the matter is that the vast majority of customers don't care about smartphones yet.
This debate seems to constantly ignore the central issue, SE's relatively small size.
SE only released a handful of handsets last year, this year they will release approximately ten or twelve. With these numbers SE can't really compete on a one for one basis with the likes of Nokia, Motorola, et al. SE therefore aims its products at those markets that are most profitable for it e.g. Europe and Japan.
If SE release a handset with EDGE support it means that they have approximately 10% or more of their contemporary product base incurring extra costs and expenses and sporting a feature that is irrelevant to the majority of their customers.
As SE's position improves and they do start to release more products then I am quite sure that we shall see them release more country specific products.
The reason SE still produce 2.5G handsets is very simple, the majority of their customers still use 2.5G. The reason SE is looking to focus upon 3G is also very simple, a majority of their customers will eventually use 3G.
Whether you like it or not, Europe and Japan are the most important mobile markets in the world. India and China are developing very quickly, but it is still going to be some time before they fully mature as mobile markets. SE therefore tries to produce some affordable products that will appeal to the vast majority of users who couldn't care less about smartphones.
What one must realise is that SE are highly regionalised in so far as they can really only compete effectively in Europe and Japan. It isn't that SE don't want Indian or American custom, they just don't have the capacity for it at present.
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
goldenface
Joined: Dec 17, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Liverpool City Centre
PM |
Quote:
|
On 2005-05-05 13:26:00, whizkidd wrote:
Also, if 3G is SE's main concern, why are there only three 3G phones in europe? I'm not counting japan. Why is se still launching plain gsm phones with no 3G possibility? Their flagship models are still 2.5G!
|
|
It has been known for a long time that SE is intent on releasing low end handsets with the view to increading low end market share. I wouldn't class 3G as low-end. Would you?
EDIT: The 3G Z800 will be one of the top end phones when it is launched.
[ This Message was edited by: goldenface on 2005-05-05 13:18 ] |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
PM, WWW
|
Quote:
|
On 2005-05-05 07:29:05, Prom1 wrote:
This is a verbatim of what I posted in another thread as to why SE should implement EDGE in their products more.
|
|
I thought this deserved a reply of its own ...
Quote:
|
http://www.3g.co.uk/PR/March2005/1186.htm (EDGE spreading throughout the Americas) dated March 14, 2005. This link lists that EDGE covers 93% or the Canadian population = potentially 250 million people.
|
|
Canadians must have been having a lot of sex recently, the last time I checked the population of Canada was under 33 million ...
Quote:
|
Futhermore, Mexico also implemented EDGE and available to potential 29 million people; along with another 8 Latin American countries. EDGE is adopted by 154 operators in 87 countries together offering potentially 1 quarter billion customers. I think that is enough reason for EDGE to be implemented, maybe along with European 2100mhz UMTS at least for Europe/Asia/African nations (yes Africa does have EDGE).
|
|
These figures don't make any sense. Is this quarter billion inclusive of Canada's newly increased population? If these imaginary millions are included then surely the figure would be more than 250 million, assuming that the other 86 countries have any population at all to add to the figure!
Quote:
|
On a competitiveness angle SE makes only 5(s710a, 3data cards, z500 - no its not discountinued) products that have EDGE, while Nokia makes (6630/6680/6681/6682/6620/6220/6221) an estimate of 7+. Of those at least 3 of those products offer EDGE & UMTS, not all potential users will stay in their geographical market for the products lifespan, and thus may travel to Canada/USA/Mexico.
|
|
The majority of users have little use for data usage abroad at the moment. Typicaly people use their mobiles to make calls and send texts whilst abroad.
Quote:
|
Cingular in the US is already testing UMTS for both North America's 850+1900Mhz bands. They have an existing infrastructure for EDGE in the majority of their coverage. SE could manufacture UMTS for the Americas for these existing bands.
|
|
They could, but they are highly unlikely to do so. Who would use their products in America? Cingular users? Of course Sprint or Verizson users wouldn't be using potential SE WCDMA products, neither would T-Mobile users, at least not until 2007. This then leaves a single network to sell SE's products to a customer base that does not potentially include every person in America. Why would SE go to this bother at their current level of development when they already have a much bigger market in Europe that doesn't require this added level of cost and effort for them? When SE are in a better position then we will probably see American UMTS handsets, but I would doubt we see very much before that time.
Quote:
|
Sure EDGE is slower than UMTS however it is cheaper for manufacturers to implement in products & for carriers to deploy. Besides do those of you loving UMTS data speeds, would you prefer your QoS (Quality of Service) to drop to GPRS speeds instead of EDGE? Sure UMTS coverage is extensive in Europe & most of Asia, but don't expect it in the Americas for another 2 years at best for most coverage areas.
|
|
I would agree with you, but again the Americas just aren't a priority for SE at the moment. Tailoring anything more than a very small section of their product base to the Americas is simply beyond SE's current capacity in my opinion. We see the odd handset now and again e.g. the S710, but SE just don't seem to have the resources for anyhting more than that at current levels.
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
dave_uk
Joined: Mar 06, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: London, UK
PM |
Not to mention the fact that GSM and the overlaid technologies such as GPRS are going to have to co-exist with 3G (or whatever it will be) for at least the next decade, whilst they roll out the new networks worldwide, so stopping production of 2G/2.5G handsets would be a suicidal move (a real suicidal move)
|
mario2002
Joined: Feb 15, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Jeffrey's-Bay ,South Africa
PM, WWW
|
How many countries in Europe support EDGE? My guess is - before the end of the year most will support it ! Unfortunately no EDGE handsets from SE.The company is badly in need of cash after a 60%+ profit loss in the first quarter ! And not a much better outlook for the second.It also dropped a place in the manufacturers list.Come on chaps give it a break and be real for a sec.You want top edge cellphones? My tip is - go look somewhere als.If SE go on like this,prey to see them around next year.
This message was posted from a Nokia 7650 |
dave_uk
Joined: Mar 06, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: London, UK
PM |
Quote:
|
On 2005-05-05 14:23:31, mario2002 wrote:
How many countries in Europe support EDGE? My guess is - before the end of the year most will support it !
|
|
Your guess is based on....?
Quote:
|
Unfortunately no EDGE handsets from SE.
|
|
Wrong - read....further down this thread!
Quote:
|
The company is badly in need of cash after a 60%+ profit loss in the first quarter ! And not a much better outlook for the second.
|
|
Profit loss?
Quote:
|
It also dropped a place in the manufacturers list.Come on chaps give it a break and be real for a sec.You want top edge cellphones? My tip is - go look somewhere als.
|
|
Hallelujah - hit the nail on the head!
Quote:
|
If SE go on like this,prey to see them around next year.
This message was posted from a Nokia 7650
|
|
Whatever you reckon, mate! 
|
goldenface
Joined: Dec 17, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Liverpool City Centre
PM |
@Mario. I would have to disagree with your guesstimate.
EDGE is not widespread in Europe and probably never will be, unless the mobile operators give up on trying to recover the Billions of Euros they paid for the UMTS (3G) licenses to governments a few years ago.
How can they expect to recover that cost if they provide a cheaper EDGE network instead?
You do remember how much they paid for those UMTS licences dont you? BILLIONS.
Here a World map with Edge. The green are the countries where it has been Trialed. The Red dots where it has actually been launched.
IF sells the VAST majority of its handsets in Western Europe and hardly any operators are demanding handsets with EDGE, then why should produce them. Sure if all the operators in all countries demanded it then SE will produce it but they don't Simple as!
For a list of 3G enabled countries please see here
[ This Message was edited by: goldenface on 2005-05-05 14:40 ] | |
|
Access the forum with a mobile phone via esato.mobi
|
Posted: 2005-05-05 06:43
