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Where are the real panels ? |
doministry
Joined: Apr 13, 2007
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Well, I didn't state that "every X1 user would say Panels are great" at all,
I just point your statement regarding "fact" about panel which are not facts but opinions of - big - user's group.
As well as some love TFlo and that's great, everybody uses what one likes.
There's no faster way of accessing app than from SE Panel, it's a blast. So I don't know what you mean, I also compared it and it's definitely faster than iPhone (as you bring this argument here).
Regarding different panels - they have their specific functionality and it's serves great. Nobody uses panels just the same way as app launchers.
You miss the point a bit here.
As for iPhone again, I don't argue (and care) if it's good or not,
It can be great or whatever.
But discussing different UI's concepts and giving the example of device which actually has no UI (besides apps) and is completely non-customizable, is hard to be regarded as reasonable.
[ This Message was edited by: doministry on 2009-04-21 12:12 ] a w a r e | |
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anonymuser
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On 2009-04-21 13:11:36, doministry wrote:
Well, I didn't state that "every X1 user would say Panels are great" at all,
No, but you tried to use the fact that some would as an argument against TouchFlo, which is just nonsense thinking.
I just point your statement regarding "fact" about panel which are not facts but opinions of - big - user's group.
But the "fact" I was pointing out was that the realisation of the panel concept was poor - and it is. The Panels you have on your X1 are not the "Active Panels" that were advertised and much vaunted by SE and others in the build up to the X1's launch (as testified by this thread) - that's not a matter of opinion, it is actual fact.
Whether or not you personally like the panels as they are isn't actually relevant to that point.
There's no faster way of accessing app than from SE Panel, it's a blast. So I don't know what you mean, I also compared it and it's definitely faster than iPhone (as you bring this argument here).
One page of the iPhone's menu holds up to 20 apps (including the four docked at the bottom). Any of those app icons can be "active" in the sense that they show at a glance if there are messages waiting, and so on. So when I unlock the phone, I can immediately see the status of, and select any of my 20 most used apps, instantly, and have it open in front of me in the exceptionally short time it takes that app to load. Another 16 apps are just a flick away, a further 16 in two flicks, and so on.
With the Panels, you have a choice of what - 9? Maximum? At least some of which will be taken up not by useful apps in themselves, but secondary UIs, menus and desktops, through which you must transit on the way to accessing the function you want. Perhaps you can explain to me how that can possibly be quicker, easier, or more efficient than the iPhone's home screen?
Regarding different panels - they have their specific functionality and it's serves great. Nobody uses panels just the same way as app launchers.
You miss the point a bit here.
Still a choice of 9 versus 20 though, right?
As for iPhone again, I don't argue (and care) if it's good or not,
It can be great or whatever.
But discussing different UI's concepts and giving the example of device which actually has no UI (besides apps) and is completely non-customizable, is hard to be regarded as reasonable.
Is describing the iPhone as "a device which actually has no UI" reasonable? Or sane?
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doministry
Joined: Apr 13, 2007
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On 2009-04-21 14:03:15, Boinng wrote:
On 2009-04-21 13:11:36, doministry wrote:
Well, I didn't state that "every X1 user would say Panels are great" at all,
No, but you tried to use the fact that some would as an argument against TouchFlo, which is just nonsense thinking.
I just point your statement regarding "fact" about panel which are not facts but opinions of - big - user's group.
But the "fact" I was pointing out was that the realisation of the panel concept was poor - and it is. The Panels you have on your X1 are not the "Active Panels" that were advertised and much vaunted by SE and others in the build up to the X1's launch (as testified by this thread) - that's not a matter of opinion, it is actual fact.
Whether or not you personally like the panels as they are isn't actually relevant to that point.
There's no faster way of accessing app than from SE Panel, it's a blast. So I don't know what you mean, I also compared it and it's definitely faster than iPhone (as you bring this argument here).
One page of the iPhone's menu holds up to 20 apps (including the four docked at the bottom). Any of those app icons can be "active" in the sense that they show at a glance if there are messages waiting, and so on. So when I unlock the phone, I can immediately see the status of, and select any of my 20 most used apps, instantly, and have it open in front of me in the exceptionally short time it takes that app to load. Another 16 apps are just a flick away, a further 16 in two flicks, and so on.
With the Panels, you have a choice of what - 9? Maximum? At least some of which will be taken up not by useful apps in themselves, but secondary UIs, menus and desktops, through which you must transit on the way to accessing the function you want. Perhaps you can explain to me how that can possibly be quicker, easier, or more efficient than the iPhone's home screen?
Regarding different panels - they have their specific functionality and it's serves great. Nobody uses panels just the same way as app launchers.
You miss the point a bit here.
Still a choice of 9 versus 20 though, right?
As for iPhone again, I don't argue (and care) if it's good or not,
It can be great or whatever.
But discussing different UI's concepts and giving the example of device which actually has no UI (besides apps) and is completely non-customizable, is hard to be regarded as reasonable.
Is describing the iPhone as "a device which actually has no UI" reasonable? Or sane?
Sorry, are we writing about the same device??
'Cos the completely wrong info you give here is not making a discussion sensible in any way and is not validating your comments.
SE Panel itself has completely customizable active elements, which you can re-orgranise or delete.
What "9"? Sorry but get informed better before you write things out-of-the cloud.
SE Panel can contain 50 apps icons. Or no icons at all etc...
Launching the app from it is a breeze.
As I wrote, Panel is not only an app, but the organization of apps/shortcuts what makes oprations faster. You organize yourself few panels and they provide a needed working pattern of your choice.
It works like a computer.
Writing "iPhone has no UI" - well, as I wrote, besides the pages with icons it has NO UI! No plugins, no menus, folders, nothing, you can add nothing there. Just reorganize the order. So where is the UI there really?
BTW, my argument that "some like it" is absolutely valid since you used the same phrase before, also adding yourself who also "likes" something. We always write about "some".
I use daily 4 different Panels which are organized in completely usable way.
Instead of reverting countless pages of apps....
In the end your argument that SE Panels don't give what was advertised made me a bit funny - what was your reaction to iPhone not meeting basic demands, opposed to what was advertised?
I ask this silly question just because you just can't stop your Apple "religion",
on X1 forum.
[ This Message was edited by: doministry on 2009-04-21 13:55 ] a w a r e |
anonymuser
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On 2009-04-21 14:52:40, doministry wrote:
Sorry, are we writing about the same device??
Yes, we are. The difference is I'm talking the SE Panels interface in its totality, and you're choosing (at a late stage) to switch tack and start comparing other UIs to the possibilities of a single Panel. Which is nonsense, since none of the individual Panels are actually any more functional than a standard Windows Mobile app, they're simply framed to sit within the overall Panels interface.
SE Panel itself has completely customizable active elements, which you can re-orgranise or delete.
What "9"? Sorry but get informed better before you write things out-of-the cloud.
SE Panel can contain 50 apps icons. Or no icons at all etc...
Launching the app from it is a breeze.
9 = 9 Panels. I think you, and the rest of this thread, already understand that perfectly well. The multiple Panels (9 of them) are, after all, the single differentiating factor between the X1 and any other WM phone. The point I'm making is that Panel selection is simply an unnecessary complication. You don't need to choose between 9 UI's when you have just one that works fine.
It's quite telling that you don't want to talk about the Panels interface itself, and just concentrate (pointlessly) on the possible attributes of a particular single panel. I might as well choose to compare the iPhone interface to Windows Mobile's default Today screen, that's a single panel too..
As I wrote, Panel is not only an app, but the organization of apps/shortcuts what makes oprations faster. You organize yourself few panels and they provide a needed working pattern of your choice.
It works like a computer.
No, it works like a horribly overcomplicated imitation of a desktop computer, crammed into a phone with a 3 inch screen. The analogy doesn't work in any sense, it just gets in the way.
Writing "iPhone has no UI" - well, as I wrote, besides the pages with icons it has NO UI! No plugins, no menus, folders, nothing, you can add nothing there. Just reorganize the order. So where is the UI there really?
The letters "UI" don't stand for "plugins, menus, and folders" - they stand for User Interface. As it happens, the iPhone is quite famous for having a very well regarded user interface, which of course does include many menus, but is also laid out in a logical and intuitive way, and actually helps the user literally interface with the phone and all its functions in the most accessable, efficient, and pleasurable way.
On the iPhone, I don't need to wade through a selection of Panels to see if I have a text message, it's right there on the screen. I don't need three different clocks (complete with Goldfish) as the time is permanently present on the title bar. Everything from the single button on the front that closes apps and takes me back to the homescreen, to the way the screen shuts off when I hold the phone to my ear, to the way I can answer a call with one swipe of my finger, is the "UI" of the iPhone. And yes, I'll take the 20 immediately available shortcuts to my favourite apps over 9 separate ways to look at the same thing any day...
BTW, my argument that "some like it" is absolutely valid since you used the same phrase before, also adding yourself who also "likes" something. We always write about "some".
No, your argument that the realisation of the Panel concept couldn't be poor because some people liked it wasn't valid, the fact that they liked it doesn't change the fact that it doesn't work as advertised.
In the end your argument that SE Panels don't give what was advertised made me a bit funny - what was your reaction to iPhone not meeting basic demands, opposed to what was advertised?
I ask this silly question just because you just can't stop your Apple "religion",
on X1 forum.
Not just a silly question, a nonsense question, since the iPhone's met all the claims of its advertising. Yes there are some extra features that some people would have liked the iPhone to have, no those features have never been advertised or promised by Apple (aside from those actually coming in the next OS release in June).
But as for my Apple "religion", I may as well point out that I started out talking about HTC, Touchflo and the Touch Pro vs the X1. It's telling how quickly you yourself dropped any interest in that and set about failing to prove your X1 superior to the iPhone.
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doministry
Joined: Apr 13, 2007
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No, it works like a horribly overcomplicated imitation of a desktop computer, crammed into a phone with a 3 inch screen. The analogy doesn't work in any sense, it just gets in the way.
That's the point - it does NOT work "like a horribly overcomplicated imitation of a desktop computer".
It's again your personal-tasty opinion, not a "fact".
It acts like a highly practical working environment.
As I said before, I use everyday up to 4 different panels and it's NOT the same as app or it's not the same as having ONE today screen.
On the iPhone, I don't need to wade through a selection of Panels to see if I have a text message, it's right there on the screen. I don't need three different clocks (complete with Goldfish) as the time is permanently present on the title bar. Everything from the single button on the front that closes apps and takes me back to the homescreen, to the way the screen shuts off when I hold the phone to my ear, to the way I can answer a call with one swipe of my finger, is the "UI" of the iPhone. And yes, I'll take the 20 immediately available shortcuts to my favourite apps over 9 separate ways to look at the same thing any day...
The same simplicity goes on X1 so again what are you talking about?
Or even better, 'cos I cam answer the call one handed without any (IMO useless) swipe,
but just click one button.
The time is also permanently visible on my title bar..
Etcetera.
Who told you those "horrible" stories about WM complicated operation on X1?
It's out of the cloud again. Without any facts.
[ This Message was edited by: doministry on 2009-04-21 21:48 ] a w a r e |
anonymuser
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On 2009-04-21 22:24:37, doministry wrote:
That's the point - it does NOT work "like a horribly overcomplicated imitation of a desktop computer".
That may be your point, but it's not the point. You're simply countering my opinion with your own, which is fine, but doesn't get us anywhere. I've used Windows Mobile, I've tried out SE's Panels, I know what you're saying is a massively exaggerated glorification of what Panels ultimately fail to be, but if its what you want to believe that's ok. It's just pointless to be banging on about "facts" all the time (a word that you chose to bring into this by the way) when you have zero facts of your own to contribute, only more of your own highly biased opinion.
The same simplicity goes on X1 so again what are you talking about?
But you're just ignoring facts, here. The X1 is not as simple. The X1 interface presents you with 9 different UI options before you can even get near any other apps and functions. It is by design more complex, there's simply no getting away from that fact.
Or even better, 'cos I cam answer the call one handed without any (IMO useless) swipe,
but just click one button.
What's the difference between a one-handed swipe and a one-handed button press? Only that the button press is more likely to happen in your pocket by accident.
The time is also permanently visible on my title bar..
Etcetera.
Only by losing the battery indicator - very convenient and well thought out I'm sure!
Who told you those "horrible" stories about WM complicated operation on X1?
It's out of the cloud again. Without any facts.
I don't know where this cloud is that you're so fond of, but it's a "fact" that I've been using WM a lot longer than you...
[ This Message was edited by: Boinng on 2009-04-22 07:58 ] |
doministry
Joined: Apr 13, 2007
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Boinng,
I see.
Well, good luck than with producing the horrible "truth" about X1.
iPhone will win always anyway. Even if the solutions they give are hilarious.
If the fact that something is actually productive and works fine,
opposed to YOUR biased opinion of another person (I mean you're not God...) is not considered here BUT your statements work fine,
stops any possible conversation.
What's the difference between a one-handed swipe and a one-handed button press? Only that the button press is more likely to happen in your pocket by accident.
Yes, the iPhone religion.
You really still keep on giving this device as something as a role model,
while it still fails to give a basic functionality.
This is very convinient indeed.
[ This Message was edited by: doministry on 2009-04-22 09:58 ] a w a r e |
anonymuser
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On 2009-04-22 10:56:10, doministry wrote:
This is very convinient indeed.
Isn't it just - convenient like not addressing any of the points raised in a debate and ranting on about "religions" is a convenient way to finish an argument you can't win, and defend a flawed product that's already failed. You go for it..
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doministry
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You still repeat the theories about a flawed product which just isn't flawed.
That's the problem.
It's for me like discussing why I'm a human, not a monkey.
And actually I don't care about defending since it's not a "war".
It's rather something I observe from your input here and there - no matter what we discuss,
fruit phone appears in the end. You just can't stop it?
I gave you all the possible input - if saying that a device and
it's solutions give a good and sufficient working environment is not valid,
but your missed points are - where are we?
What are we really discussing? Your 100% correct statements, right?
You don't even use the device yet have full set of opinions on it.
[ This Message was edited by: doministry on 2009-04-22 11:30 ] a w a r e |
anonymuser
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On 2009-04-22 12:27:40, doministry wrote:
You still repeat the theories about a flawed product which just isn't flawed.
That's the problem.
It's for me like discussing why I'm a human, not a monkey.
Are the panels on the production X1 "active" in the sense that the original panels concept was advertised and clearly intended to be by SE? Here's a clue - read the start of this thread - the answer is NO.
That, in itself, makes the X1 a flawed product.
Moving on from there, it's easy to argue that without that realtime updating of multiple at-a-glance desktops that might really have made the panels useful, the whole panels concept is flawed. It simply brings nothing to the table but added complication, and an uneccesary choice of 9 user interfaces (or in effect, 9 different takes on the same WM user interface) where one decent one would have done.
And that brings us back to what this conversation between us was originally about, before you got obsessed with the iPhone - the Touch Pro versus the X1, the fact that it really just comes down to software, and the fact that for many TouchFlo on the TP is a far superior WM add-on than the panels.
And actually I don't care about defending since it's not a "war".
It's rather something I observe from your input here and there - no matter what we discuss,
fruit phone appears in the end. You just can't stop it?
I didn't start it. You chose to concentrate on my personal preference, rather than address the straight comparison between two WinMo phones we started with.
I gave you all the possible input - if saying that a device and
it's solutions give a good and sufficient working environment is not valid,
but your missed points are - where are we?
You've given nothing but a wall of opinion and waffle - and my "missed points" are simply those which you've ignored.
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doministry
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Moving on from there, it's easy to argue that without that realtime updating of multiple at-a-glance desktops that might really have made the panels useful, the whole panels concept is flawed. It simply brings nothing to the table but added complication, and an uneccesary choice of 9 user interfaces (or in effect, 9 different takes on the same WM user interface) where one decent one would have done.
And that brings us back to what this conversation between us was originally about, before you got obsessed with the iPhone - the Touch Pro versus the X1, the fact that it really just comes down to software, and the fact that for many TouchFlo on the TP is a far superior WM add-on than the panels.
How long this mantra will be repeated?
Don't you get it - it works and gives a great functionality?
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anonymuser
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What I've written above isn't a "mantra", it's a reasoned argument for why the Panels concept isn't that great.
An example of a mantra might be the repetition of a simple phrase like "it works and gives a great functionality" without actually giving anything to justify that.
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doministry
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On 2009-04-23 13:17:18, Boinng wrote:
What I've written above isn't a "mantra", it's a reasoned argument for why the Panels concept isn't that great.
An example of a mantra might be the repetition of a simple phrase like "it works and gives a great functionality" without actually giving anything to justify that.
"Isn't that great" is completely different than "flawed" or "gives nothing to the table".
While the first phrase is more of a personal feel, the other ones can be rather considered as objective statements. Which I argue with.
The arguments which "defend" my view are in my previous posting.
Maybe read carefully.
It gives you the required homescreens - with the favourite pattern or set of apps or plugins you need instantly - with the whole functionality of a smartphone under preserved and available instantly. So in front there's what ones like - pure wallpaper, calendar, set of apps, or other stuff like multimedia, on the road short action panel etc.
But it doesn't change the whole device's functional availability - it's available as always.
It works great,
and in opposition to all other manufacturers which basically offer just ONE homescreen/plugin environment availble at a time. Everything else is available through complicated setup process.
In reverse in X1 case you can SWITCH between homescreens in just a few seconds, without any "turn on/off" complicated actions.
It works simple as hell, with a dedicated button.
In my case - as I said as a valid point - I use 4 -5 different panels set to have the best functionality needed in my working/entertainment patterns.
So - I have no idea why this simple fact is not visible for you.
Especially when as you say - you used so many devices before.
P.S. The iPhone was brought by you, not me. You couldn't stop with "it triumphs this all" phrase. What for?
P.S.2 And of course some will hate panels - we live in the world of personal taste too.
[ This Message was edited by: doministry on 2009-04-23 13:42 ] a w a r e |
Astral1
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From what i read in the last few pages, i dont believe that Boing has actually used an X1 for longer than , say, 10 minutes in a shop, before making up these opinions.
I have to agree with Doministry, here. The X1 to me is incredibly versatile in the way that you can set up the panels .
Just my opinion, and i dont care about the i phone, before anyone starts.
Tried it for 2 weeks, and for me, its a pretty and slick piece of shite, that gets boring to use in a short time.
At the end of the day, every one will have a different opinion. Its horses for courses.
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anonymuser
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At the end of the day, I didn't start this thread asking where the "real" panels were - X1 owners did that.
I'm not an X1 owner and have never claimed to be. I know Windows Mobile very well, and I fully understand the (quite straightforward) concept of the panels in their current form. In my opinion they're simply not a great addition to WM, and going by the minimal impact the X1 has had on the WM market it's pretty clear I'm not alone in that opinion.
Perhaps we're all terribly misguided. But I don't think so.
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Posted: 2009-04-21 13:11
