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What's wrong with Esato? |
masseur
Joined: Jan 03, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Sydney, London
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I'm not convinced at all that throwing more moderators at this is really the solution and this idea suggests the problem is lack of moderators rather than the level of tolerance of the existing moderators assuming that we are fairly aware of what is going on in Esato
as we know, I am here quite alot and tranquil and GOwin is fairly visible while other moderators may not be posting so much and hence not visible but they are certainly doing their bit so I think there is plent of coverage. Therefore I suggest that the number of moderators is not the question but perhaps the limits of accepability vs freedom of speech that the moderators allow is the question
also its very hard to find reliable, relatively frequent and somewhat knowledgeable members with the right temprement to deal with all situations in a fair and unbiased way which is what laffen must look for when appointing moderators
The time to assign more moderators is when the current moderators can no longer deal with the volume of work required and certainly for the number of complaints I receive and threads I deal with this is not yet the case
I still go back to the statement that Esato is a dynamic and fluid environemnt with a constantly changing membership base where the current moderators do a good job to keep the worst out of Esato while still giving people a reasonable level of freedom to express themselves within fairly acceptable limits.
I'm sure there are quite a few members who would have received warnings from me, for example, about their posting style who could confirm that we do take this issue seriously but perhaps the balance I myself have strived for is a little more liberal that some would perfer?
I do agree that the search could be made better by providing a setting to exclude non mobile related forums and I also agree with some of the other points but I do feel that the thrust of this discussion is that more control is required over threads and I just don't agree that any more moderators or individual forum moderators etc will be effective if they also cause resentment from the members wishing to express their opinion while at the same time not excceeding the limits of forum rules.
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bart
Joined: Feb 03, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: Flanders
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i'm considerd an oldie here. and in my time i've seen several of these threads. many good points are told here, but sadly hardly any of them is done.
laffen should take some time to think everything over, talk to the mods and some other members and try to restructure esato. alot of the things suggested here could make many members here feel more at home, or back at home.
With Ericsson and Nokia gone: we must keep their spirits alive and buy JOLLA or YOTA |
mustafabay
Joined: Sep 27, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Egypt
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One thing I'd like some of the funny guys here to know is, people on wap don't apretiate seeing posts of endless smilies that their phone can't display.
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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@masseur
Valid points, but I must disagree with you in some respects. I really do feel that more moderators would be a good idea. I don't think it is a question of the volume of work, but rather capacity. More moderators would mean more chances to weed out threadjacking; threads going wildly off-topic; utter nonsense, etc. It would allow the implementation of policies to restrict the more stupid posts and threads because there would be more manpower.
More moderators may also allow for an opportunity to try and tackle the 'mob culture' that exists here. I am fed up with seeing conformist hordes jumping on someone because everyone else is! I believe the 'Esato mob' actually has a bit of a reputation amongst other forums!
I suppose I would be something of a 'conservative' here in my wish to see a stricter policy adopted, but I really do think Esato would benefit immensely from a 'clean up'. Why can't we have some of the really old nonsensical threads deleted? Is there a need for them?
I realise that the moderators can only do so much as it is laffen who has the final say on policy decisions, but I would have to agree with bart in asking laffen to perhaps consider some of the points raised here. I am a great beleiver in the saying 'if it isn't broke, don't fix it', but I really do think Esato could do with an overhaul.
I don't really expect many, if any, of my suggestions to be taken up, but they are all relatively easy to implement. Some simple practical measures could go a long way to restoring the balanced and healthy forum that used to be.
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"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2005-05-22 16:44 ] |
lastride
Joined: May 03, 2005
Posts: 91
From: Vic, Australia
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@musta
I agree with you there it takes 4eva to get 2 bottom of page all i can say to this topic is if you don't like the way Esato is well piss off i can see your point scott but tell me have you ever seen a forum that is as old as Esato that dosen't have all the garbage in it xbox is a good example u see about 20 threds asking about the x360 specs when they could all looked & seen there was a sticky stating the specs so no matter what forum u go to u are going to see crap on top of crap
Cheers!!
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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Quote:
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On 2005-05-22 17:43:10, lastride wrote:
... all i can say to this topic is if you don't like the way Esato is well piss off ...
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A prime example of what is wrong with Esato! Instead of a civil response look what we get! Perhaps some people actually like Esato enough to want to make sure she runs well instead of simply giving up? No offence old boy, but you appear to have been in the door five minutes, perhaps you have been a lurker for longer, but rudeness really is not becoming.
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i can see your point scott but tell me have you ever seen a forum that is as old as Esato that dosen't have all the garbage in it ...
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Actually yes I have. If you take a look at this you will see a forum that is actually a little older than Esato I believe with no where near the levels of tosh that we have here.
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"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2005-05-22 16:51 ] |
Aalpha001
Joined: Mar 21, 2005
Posts: 20
From: South Africa
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@ scotsboyuk Really. I have nothing personal against you. We are saying the same thing. Personally, I am not suprised at all because this can only the expected when a forum like Esato has grown so much. The way out is for the moderators to be a little stricter with whoever the rules, whatever the rules are. There should be law and other in any civil society. This is my opinion...
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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@Aalpha001
Hear! Hear! I quite agree with you old boy.  A firm hand at the tiller is needed.
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
Wuz
Joined: Nov 01, 2002
Posts: 319
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I've been visitng Esato daily since 2001, a member since 2002 and have donated to the site.
In my opinion, the site we helped save a few years back is the same entity as it is today. No fundamental differences at all.
Sure there are more members, sure sentiments sway back and forth (often dictated by the development stages of SE... ie rumour stage, excitment stage, its out stage, bugs then a lull again).
But I can tell you one thing for sure:-
We have had this exact thread many times over the years in different guises. This is nothing knew.
The site has got bigger and fewer members stand out. However, it still remains a place to discover and discuss.
Really, whats all the fuss about???
[ This Message was edited by: Wuz on 2005-05-22 17:54 ] |
Wuz
Joined: Nov 01, 2002
Posts: 319
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...I would make one further point.
If members insist there is a problem, fell that things really must change - you are going about it all wrong. This whole thread is dedictaed to whY Esato isn't working. Surely, the sensible place to start is to define what it is you wish Esato to be. |
batesie
Joined: Feb 13, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: London, UK
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I can see a little bit of this in you Scotsboy...
The Complainer: These people have a bit of a chip on their shoulder. They will complain about everything and anything, usually extremely petty matters, which really ar eof very little importance." (Well i can see that this IS of importance to you mate, thats why youve brought it up )
But you talk about these things like theyre bad? without complaining how do we know when something is wrong, its just some people find it their mission if life to complain, and i'm not complaining about that!
I think the majority of people can see through the cr*p on esato and dont have a problem with it.
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[ This Message was edited by: batesie on 2005-05-22 18:19 ] |
batesie
Joined: Feb 13, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: London, UK
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BTW not having a go at you scots, i can actually see you genuinely care about the future of this forum...
I appreciate that 
[addsig] |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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@Wuz
One wonders why such threads keep appearing though ...
You are perfectly correct in what you say about this sort of thread having been created before, but I would argue that that is actually indicative of the importance of the matter to more than I.
@batesie
I think each of us has certain aspects of those categories I defined, within us. No one is perfect and we all have our little idiosincracies, but there comes a point when it goes beyond that.
Perhaps masseur is right, perhaps I am nostalgically seeking an Esato that has long since gone or perhaps never really existed at all. There seems to come a certain time for particular members when they realise how much Esato has changed for them. They realise that they no longer fit in as they once did and that they are foreign in their own land.
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
tranquil
Joined: Dec 15, 2001
Posts: > 500
From: Oslo, Norway
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I don't have much to add here. Masseur has said pretty much what can be said from Team Esato's side.
I wrote a metaphor on Esato a while back. I believe it fits in this topic as well:
Esato is like a ship; it goes from port to port, picks up new passengers and lets others off. In the open sea there might be rough weather sometimes but most of the time it's calm and comfortable.
Then we go back to a port where we have been before and pick up some new passengers, and some old, whilst some from the last journey decide to go ashore.
The journey continues with Laffen as captain, the mods as his closest coworkers, the "veterans" as crew to look after the passsengers and report up the ladder if anyone gets "drunk in the bar" and missbehaves. Then we eigther throw them over board or put them in a life boat in a rope behind the ship for a while to sober up.
The long time "crew" of this ship knows how it is and try to teach the new passengers where the bar is located, where the cabins are, where to do your shopping and where to join conferences and lessons of education.
The best thing about this ship is that there is no 1st, 2nd or 3rd class cabins. Everyone on the ship is equal and are treated the same way. The crew is there to guide not rule and the passengers are here to share and learn equal to the crew.
All in all Esato is a butifull cruice ship that needs it's crew and passengers to keep sailing and stay afloat.
I do want to add one litte thing though;
Moderators being stricter is a sensible issue. What has become a trend is a bit annoying actually; We lock a topic and a new topic asking why we did it pops up! "Why was that topic locked?" "Who locked that topic?" What sort of answer is expected to a question like that? "He, he... I locked it just for fun"?
How can we be stricter when everything we do is being questioned?
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slattery69
Joined: Jan 03, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: north east england
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i think esato goes through cycles ive been bored with it for a while so havent been coming as much but i keep an eye on it as its done this before then comes full circle and get interesting again.
i think with the k750 been out and a few bugs and some good experiences with it it will start to get lively again |
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Posted: 2005-05-22 16:44
