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Can mobiles cause cancer? |
arvinlad
Joined: Mar 26, 2005
Posts: 447
From: A P1iW [8Gb] in Lancs UK ;-)
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Are the studies carried out with controls...
ie - if you sat chatting away for an hour with a piece of wood held to the side of your head - would it not be the case that your head and ear would get flushed and warm due to:
1) being covered
2) being continually knocked by the object
3) being in proximity to a warm hand
Just my tuppence worth 
Another thing is that just because the skin on the outside of your skull get warm/ numb (probably due to the 3 items listed above  ) it doesn't mean that anything is happening inside (take that comment how you want  )
Anyway... why speak on the phone for an hour?  - go round and see the girl - give her a kiss for goodness sake  - no more than that mind... 'till you're married!
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max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
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they were serious studies and using control groups is standard practice so I don't see why not.
In the cell tissue culture experiments, they actually bombarded cell cultures in the laboratory with mobile phone radiation, not people's heads, so they had full experimental control of the environment.
You can take it for fact that Cell phone radiation heats livings cells, this is not something that there is scientific disagreement upon. What's under disagreement, is whether that kind of heating will lead to tumours or not, and if so at what levels of exposure.
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carkitter
Joined: Apr 29, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: Auckland, NZ
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Brain Tumours/Cancers are relatively rare considering the widespread use of mobile phones. However Lung cancer, Skin cancer, and Bowel cancers are very common due to exposure to Cigarette smoke, direct sunlight and certain foods all of which WE choose to expose ourselves to.
Cancer in the majority of cases is a result of lifestyle chioces, brought about by Western life expectancy in the 20th century doubling from 33 to 70 yrs.
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Miss UK
Joined: Jan 11, 2003
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My N80 gives me headaches if using it to call for ages,
however Wi-Fi is a bigger headache most times,
do those cause cancer?
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max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
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On 2007-12-30 23:32:27, carkitter wrote:
Brain Tumours/Cancers are relatively rare considering the widespread use of mobile phones. However Lung cancer, Skin cancer, and Bowel cancers are very common due to exposure to Cigarette smoke, direct sunlight and certain foods all of which WE choose to expose ourselves to.
Cancer in the majority of cases is a result of lifestyle chioces, brought about by Western life expectancy in the 20th century doubling from 33 to 70 yrs.
that's the bottom line. I think that it's possible in rare cases for tumours to form in response to excesive mobile phone use, but you'd have to be pretty unlucky. Nuch better chances are you'd get something from passive smoking
However I still reckon it's prident to avoid that "numb" feeling, especially if you get headaches as well from using the phone. You may not get tumours, but there is evidence of other affects for example concentration and ability to think clearly have been shown to be affected by such brain cell heating affects, as well as general mood swings.
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[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2008-01-02 08:17 ] |
carkitter
Joined: Apr 29, 2005
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From: Auckland, NZ
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On 2007-12-31 02:46:46, Miss UK wrote:
My N80 gives me headaches if using it to call for ages,...
This could be because of long priods of concentration, Volume levels being too low or high for comfort, Perhaps too much treble in the speaker earpiece? None of these causes are carcinogenic however.
On 2007-12-31 02:46:46, Miss UK wrote:
however Wi-Fi is a bigger headache most times,...
Do you mean that literally or metaphorically?
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max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
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From: Australia
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On 2008-01-04 23:24:28, carkitter wrote:
On 2007-12-31 02:46:46, Miss UK wrote:
My N80 gives me headaches if using it to call for ages,...
This could be because of long priods of concentration, Volume levels being too low or high for comfort, Perhaps too much treble in the speaker earpiece? None of these causes are carcinogenic however.
It is proven through studies that eliminate other factors (such as volume levels, phone pressure against the ear etc) that many people DO get headaches and or a numb sensation after using the phone for half an hour or more. Other factors such as dizziness, fatigue etc are also reported.
http://omega.twoday.net/stories/296447/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/314363.stm
"I do not see that mobile phones used normally pose a health problem, but some people are using them for 20-30 minutes or more at time, and there is overwhelming scientific evidence that there is a hazard to health from that kind of use. "
Also, there is evidence of connection between brain tumours and mobile phone use. No hard proof, but evidence nonetheless that deserves more study:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/ne[....]ews/2007/10/08/nmobiles108.xml
http://www.epidem.com/pt/re/e[....]c!1390229169!181195629!8091!-1
And also there has long been strong evidence that emr affects can cause health problems and physiological effects to humans (and is proven in laboratry animals such as mice):
http://www.electrosmog.com.au/otherarticles.htm
http://www.abc.net.au/health/thepulse/s1285335.htm
Essentially, it seems that if their is a risk of tumour, it is quite low. Other health affects are more common, such as numbness and dizziness, but whether these lead to tumours is unknown.
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carkitter
Joined: Apr 29, 2005
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From: Auckland, NZ
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I've read though all your links, I remain unconvinced that there are any serious ill effects.
The Saudi link was least scientific of the lot. Providing a questionaire to people on this subject simply collects data on peoples fears and apprehensions.
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max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
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From: Australia
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fair enough But I'm still not using a mobile phone for more than half an hour without a headset.
For a few weeks I had a very mild toothache, and everytime I used a phone without the headset for more than 15-20 minutes, the nerve started to really hurt, and I mean to the point I was writhing in agony. I just had to stop using the phone until I worked out it didn't happen if I used the headset. I tried this about 5-6 times before giving up trying to use it without the headset.
As soon as I stopped using the phone, or plugged the headset in, the pain went away.
That's enough evidence for me that emr affects from mobiles phones can have health affects
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d3nja
Joined: Oct 19, 2007
Posts: 2
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Those links really arn't good sources of information. Newspapers are great at sensationalist reports but very bad at reporting actual hard science. If you want to find out more about this issue then google scholar is the best tool I can advise since it will get you peer reviewed journals (or abstracts at least).
This abstract from a review of current literature sums up much of the evidence:
http://www.ingentaconnect.com[....]005/00000081/00000003/art00001 |
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
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It has been showing that thermal affects cause numbness, dizziness, headaches and other affects when used for more than 20-30 minutes at a stretch. This is proven. The extract you linked to only says that there is no evidence that non-thermal affects cause cancer. Non thermal affects include emissions from base stations and emissions from handsets at a foot or more distance.
Thermal affects however include holding the phone within inches of your head, or standing within a foot of a base station. Thermal affects from close range radio emissions have been shown to induce problems with cell replication in tissue cultures at these proximities over periods of 30-60 minutes. This is a fact and not news paper sensationalism.
Cell replication problems over time = tumours. Because the human body is very good at repairing itself, it may be that substantial exposure over extended periods of time is needed before tumours will form. This would explain why the evidence (which does exist) only shows a weak link and not a substantial one.
This would also mean that it's possible to get a cancer from mobile phone use, but also very unlikely for all but the most excessive users.
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carkitter
Joined: Apr 29, 2005
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From: Auckland, NZ
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@max
Aha, that's precisly the point!
Non-thermal effects cannot be proven to cause cancer.
Thermal effects are where heat causes a change in the behaviour of the cells. Mobile phones, especially the digital devices which are common for quite some time now have not been proven to cause thermal effects.
Sunburn is a thermal effect, caused by radiation from the sun. The result can become skin cancer. No-one gets skin cancer from a cell phone.
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[ This Message was edited by: carkitter on 2008-01-09 13:36 ] |
d3nja
Joined: Oct 19, 2007
Posts: 2
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Carkitter is right. No destructive thermal effect has been demonstrated using mobile phone frequencies and intensities (usually the temp increase is around 0.01 degrees celsius) . Most reasearch points to non thermal effects as the cause of damage. This includes the non themral and chronic activation of heat shock protein pathways which some hypothesis could cause cancer under certain circumstances: Long frequent exposure (in the extreme). This is still a hypothesis, not fact, and research is still being carried out. If any more information is required then a google scholar search for 'mobile phone thermal effects' will bring up a list of abstracts (which are full summaries of the paper btw).
As a side note. The last I read about mobile phones causing nausea was related to the workings of the ear and effects of loud volume for long periods of time.
[ This Message was edited by: d3nja on 2008-01-09 14:46 ] |
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
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On 2008-01-08 22:32:20, carkitter wrote:
@max
Aha, that's precisly the point!
Non-thermal effects cannot be proven to cause cancer.
Thermal effects are where heat causes a change in the behaviour of the cells. Mobile phones, especially the digital devices which are common for quite some time now have not been proven to cause thermal effects.
Sunburn is a thermal effect, caused by radiation from the sun. The result can become skin cancer. No-one gets skin cancer from a cell phone.
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[ This Message was edited by: carkitter on 2008-01-09 13:36 ]
Cell phones have been proven to cause thermal heating of human cell tissues, and also replication faults after periods of half an hour or more. Frustratingly I can't find that particular research, but I have read it before, I'm certainly not making it up.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11206998?dopt=Abstract
Also the evidence of headaches, nausea and other affects is also well documented
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12445512?dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9441959?dopt=Abstract
http://electricwords.emfacts.com/ch142393.html
http://electricwords.emfacts.com/index-Head.html
The fact is, there is lot's of research to suggest health implications related to the use of mobile phones. Just because there is no "proof" as yet of doesn't mean it's not happening.
Personally I believe the risk of getting a tumour from mobile phone use is very slim. However other problems such as headaches, dizziness, confusion and other reported affects are I think quite common. And people suffering these effects deserve to know if it is their mobile phone or not.
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[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2008-01-10 00:09 ] |
carkitter
Joined: Apr 29, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: Auckland, NZ
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On 2008-01-10 00:38:41, max_wedge wrote:
The fact is, there is lot's of research to suggest health implications related to the use of mobile phones. Just because there is no "proof" as yet of doesn't mean it's not happening.
The fact is, medical research is an industry where scientists and medical researchers need to think up a potential problem which needs to be studied further and then present this as a public danger in order to convince Public Health authorities to part with government money to fund their research. In other words, their jobs are at stake here. It doesn't take much to get the alarmist media onside either...
If negative effects haven't been proven then some researchers will tell you more research (which means more money) is needed until proof is found.
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[ This Message was edited by: carkitter on 2008-01-11 06:27 ] |
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Posted: 2007-12-28 13:50
