Forum &gt; Sony Ericsson / Sony &gt; General &gt; Memory issues with T300

Joined: Dec 06, 2002
Posts: 17
From: CA, USA
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Posted: 2002-12-07 02:20

Ok, I just did another master reset. Immediately after the reset, checking the memory status, I get the following:
Free 586k
My Sounds:88k
My Pictures:74k
Themes:63k
MMS templates:111k

This brings the total to 922k.

Strange thing is, right after that, setting my theme to Spring, the amount of free memory decreases, to 577kb. I lost 9kb just for activating a theme!

Joined: Dec 05, 2002
Posts: 88
From: Wales, UK
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Posted: 2002-12-07 03:13

I see all these great messages regarding the T68/T300 on these boards, and then I come here.

So...when I get my T68i for Xmas, if I was to delete the MMS templates, I wouldn't get the memory used returned to the free memory pool??

Even If I do a master reset, the phone will still not have those messages back,yet are still taking memory yes??

Thanx

Joined: Dec 06, 2002
Posts: 17
From: CA, USA
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Posted: 2002-12-07 04:37

I can't speak for the T68i, since I have the T300. The T300 will have all the MMS templates retained even after a reset. I have reset mine a couple of times already, trying to figure out the memory usage of the T300, and after each reset, I still have all my MMS templates. What I still can't figure out is what makes it take up all the memory.

One additional thing I just found out. If I reset the phone, I get 111kb for the MMS templates. After I browse all the pre-installed pictures, so that they all show up, the MMS templates size increases as well. Yes, I said the MMS template size increases after viewing pictures! It jumped to 139kbs! Makes no sense what so ever...

Joined: Nov 21, 2002
Posts: 68
From: USA, Fort Worth, TX
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Posted: 2002-12-07 07:11

Inq8us,

After a master reset do you actually HAVE the MMS templates available to you? If you just do a master reset and go into the MMS Templates directory do actually see the 9 or so pre-installed templates that your phone came with?

On mine I get 111KB used, but no templates available except for the Recording and Blank one which are not really templates. I miss my real templates of Postcard, I'll be late etc......

If you actually get your templates back (not deleted but still usable) then your problem is different than mine. I would not mind if the templates would come back and I could still use them.

Please post your exact firmware and customization versions so we can compare them. Mine is a T-mobile customized T300....

Thanks!

BTW I have since then tried to contact SE customer service but they are idiots and don't even listen to me. I told them that their web support page does not even work, you can't submit anything from it it has a Java script error. I also told them about the memory eating and they told me to go back to T-mobile and check with them. I'd just hate to return a perfectly fine phone for a new one that has the exact same problem.

I have also tried to check if they have the latest firmware available at their service center so I could send in my phone for a firmware upgrade that would hopefully fix my problem to no avail. The lady could not tell what was the latest firmware available and could not tell me if it would fix this issue or not. Also she refused to transfer me to anyone else who might know what the problem is.

I have also talked with T-mobile's data specialist group and the guy there told be that Ericsson writes the customization code as well T-mobile only gives them the specs.

So this is where I'm standing, I have a phone with not usable MMS templates wasting space and no response from SE in the matter or what to do.

So if anyone has a newer firmware on the T300 and can verify that it fixes the MMS memory problem please let me know wo at least I can be assured that there is already a fix for the problem and all I need is a firmware upgrade from SE!

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!

georgi_martev

Joined: Dec 06, 2002
Posts: 14
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Posted: 2002-12-07 07:49

OK , I Have the same f... ing problem with T300. My memory was almost full so i tried to delete some originally installed stuff but it didn't freed any.Finally I have almost no memory left and no factory tones and pic which is f.. up. So I decided to do master reset and i get all my stuff back. I had about 550kb free but as soon as I open the picture folder 100kb were gone. I open the games folder and I see that I have 1 game instead of 4 like when I got the phone and have the same 468kb free like I originally got the phone But with 3 games less:(So I lost abou 150 kb which I had before. now I got :
Free: 468kb
My sounds: 86kb
my pictures:171 kb
themes:63kb
mms tmplates: 139 kb
total of :927kb and witth that games I had more than 1mb which is sopposed to be.
Hope some here will solve that problem, cause I wanna use my memory for sth. else not for the factory installed ugly pics and...

georgi_martev

Joined: Dec 06, 2002
Posts: 14
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Posted: 2002-12-07 08:07

here is what GTakacs posted :Here is my speculation on how the memory system actually works on the T300 (and on the T68 too probably)

The phone comes with 1MB total memory. From this 1MB a certain amount is already preloaded with pictures, ringtones MMS templates and incoming e-mail samples that were loaded with the flash firmware orignally.

So after a Master reset your only available memory is roughly 576K on a T300. The rest of it is already pre-occupied and there is nothing you can do about it.

However if you actually go into the my pictures you will see that at this point the pictures are not loaded into the phones dynamic memory, all you see is white blocks instead of pictures. However as soon as you start viewing them the phone copies these pictures from the preinstalled memory into the free memory area to display them.

Also if you have a theme installed and you activate it, it gets copied into another location, the current theme location. So even if you delete a theme when it's in use, the phone will alert you that the theme is in use but when you delete it, the theme will be gone and the memory that it occupied will be freed. However the memory where your currently selected theme resides is still occupied by the theme and this is why you can still use the theme even when it's been deleted from the phone. To verify this just download a theme to your phone then actuvate it. Then look at your memory usage. Then delete the theme while still active and look at your memory usage. It will be less. Then change back to the classic theme and the memory occupied will be even less.

Also the phone is pretty smart about not saving duplicates twice. So if you have a picture on the phone and then you end up sending it via MMS, it will be stored in your sent items folder as well as in the my pictures folder, but it will only take up real space once. But in the Memory data screen it will count it twice, once in the sent items and once in the pictures directory. So you can actually get the memory total up to even 1200K, if you send a ton of pictures via MMS as it will show the pictures in the sent items and in the pictures directory and it will count them twice. (beleive me, you didn't actually gain more memory it just looks like it) And this is when you delete a MMS mesage it will say freed 0, since the phone still need that picture for your pictures folder and could not really delete the picture all it deleted was the link to that picture from the sent MMS folder.

Also screensavers (animated gifs) are written so the first frame is saved as a full frame then the successive frames only store changes from the previous one (kind if like mpeg, but without compression). But for the phone to be able to animate it, it actually has to generate each successive frame as a whole so it will take up a lot more space when an animated gif is in use. This has been written down in the T300 white pages and MMS specifications......

And this is where the good things end and the issues begin.

1) why does the phone need to copy the preinstalled pictures from the already taken up memory space into the free memory when you open them and view them in the pictures list? This is a bug.

2) When you delete a picture it does not delete its "cached" version and it will not free up the memory that it occupied. (In essence each preinstalled picture ends up taking up twice its size as soon as you look at it even once, yet neither gets deleted when you remove it and I think at least the second copy should be deleted)

3) After a master reset the MMS templates are still stored in the phone wasting 111K but they are no longer available. So its written somewhere that the memory is occupied yet the links to the MMS templates are not restored in the MMS templates directory.

4) The phone should free up this cached memory locations as the images are not used from time to time to make room for more things. Once you look at a picture there is no way to free up its cached value.

I am pretty sure I'm right on the money with these assumptions (I am a software engineer working with complex data structures every day so I know some about how data is stored on systems), I just wish one of the SE morons who wrote this buggy POS would take a look over here, admit their problem and fix it ASAP!

_________________
That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!

[ This Message was edited by: GTakacs on 2002-12-07 06:38 ]

Joined: Dec 06, 2002
Posts: 17
From: CA, USA
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Posted: 2002-12-07 08:28

Yea, I reset it again, and I still have all of my 9 MMS templates. Here is my firmware info

R1C001
prgCXC125636

Customization MS
CDA102086/8 R3A

I believe georgi's assumptions are pretty accurate. All the pre-installed items are located in internal ROM, then they are loaded to the 1MB or so memory when in use. However, these things should be removed from memory when they are no longer needed, since they are still in ROM. The QA dept didn't seem to have spend too much time with all the memory functions. For some reason, the themes are swapped in and out of memory ok, but why didn't they do this for the pictures?

Another wierd behavior that doesn't factor in is the MMS template memory footprint. Upon reset, this is at 111kb. After viewing all the pictures, this increases to 139kb. What I don't understand is why loading the pictures would affect the MMS template size???

At any case, their sw seems to still have a lot of bugs. Wonder if any of this is fixed with the firmware upgrade, assuming it exists...

Joined: Nov 21, 2002
Posts: 68
From: USA, Fort Worth, TX
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Posted: 2002-12-07 08:43

Inq8us,

I HAVE TO GET THIS STRAIGHT!

I have the EXACT same firmware version as well as customization version as yours (I guess you're in the US on T-mobile jsut as I am).

However when I do a master reset my MMS templates directory takes up 111K but I don't have any of my 9 templates in there except for the two that are red, the recording and blank. I have lost my others completely!

I don't know what I did differently than you to make my templates completely gone.... Before I ddid the master reset I have already looked at all my MMS templates before and even sent some to another phone.

My phone has a build date of 02W44 and a hardware revison 2575/59 R2B.

I have no idea if it has anything relating to the issue, but this is where I'm standing at the moment....... And I am stupmed that your templates came back while mine are completely gone.....

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!

Joined: Nov 21, 2002
Posts: 68
From: USA, Fort Worth, TX
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Posted: 2002-12-07 10:03

OK, I have done somre more investigating and here is what I finally came up with!

The Master reset procedure is defective, that is the reason why we're having these issues.....

I started my whole investigation by using a tip from another thread that outlined how to get rid of annoying operator personalization from any phone. It pretty much instructed to remove the battery in the middle of a master reset.
I was kind of reluctant to do such thing, but someone posted that it actually worked for them and no personalizations were on the phone what-so-ever after the reset.

So I decided to follow those instructions and did a mster reset and as per instructions I have removed my battery at about 10 seconds into the master reset.
After I have turned my phone back on sure enough there were no pictures, no tones, no backgrounds, no WAP profiles, nothing on the phone, even the little Tzones icon was replaced by a phone icon saying "WAP", the actual original name for the icon from SE that T-mobile customized to T-zones.

However here is the catch: The total available memory was still 580K only. So this proves that the phone still used up over 400K already yet it has showed no signs of it as everything showed 0 K used; completely empty.

So I did several more master resets just to see what else can be done and I here is what I've found out further more:

If I let it go through the complete master reset procedure and get back to the menu I have the following memory usage (the ones with 0K were omitted):
Free: 579K
My sounds: 88K
My pictures: 74K
Themes: 63K
Mms Templates: 111K

This adds up to a total of 915K. I also had a welcome e-mail in my inbox.

However my MMS templates directory would be completely empty even though it was showing 111K. Otherwise the phone was back to normal it had the standard T-mobile "get more..." background picture.

So I did another master reset. But before I did that I set my display text size to small, and when the master reset got to the point where it reset my text size to normal and right before the sandclock would show I removed the battery.

Then restarted the phone and when it came up it did not have the background picture at all and this is what the Memory usage has shown:
Free: 579K
My sounds: 88K
My pictures: 70K
Themes: 63K
MMS Inbox: 39K
Mms Templates: 75K
Games: 149K

This adds up to a total of 1063K
This is where the interesting part surfaces: The MMS Inbox had the original 2 welcome MMS in it. Also the MMS Templates only took 75K yet they had all 9 Templates in them. The games directory showed 149K usage, yet it was completely empty. My e-mail showed 1 message in my inbox yet it was completely empty.

Here is how I can explain the difference between the 70K and the 74K in the picture directory. On the first reset the background picture got loaded so it took up the extra 4K in the user memory.

The above also shows that the standard memory stored the original 3 games in it (149K total) but it was not available at either of the two master resets so it is 149K waste of space it's just well hidden in the first reset.

It also shows that the final steps of master reset set up links to the files in the different directories and they get messed up, hence hiding stuff that was supposed to show in the first place.

Also if I start to go into the Myu pictures directory and the blank boxes start to convert into pictures they start to take up memory from the 579K. To prevent this, you'd have to delete this pictures before they even get a chance to be loaded ever. To do that, you have to go into Fun&Games then Themes then context menu and go into Memory usage from there. Click on the pictures line in the memory usage display and delete the images that you know you'll never need. Note that you're only deleting the link to these pictures they will still be stored in the non-accessible (preloaded) area of the memory that's above tthe 579K user memory. But this way there is no way they could ever be hogging the 579K user memory.

Also note that ringtones do not actually have the issue that the pictures experience meaning it does not matter if you listen to them or not, they will not get copied over into the user memory from the permanent memory ever. so there is no point in deleting any of them, you wil not gain extra space.

So to sum up my findings:
- The 1MB of memory in the T300 is broken into pre-loaded memory and user memory. The T300 has 579K user memory given my firmware and the rest of it is pre-loaded memory that cannot be erased and/or used for anything else.
- Only pictures and MMS templates (they have pictures) get copied into user memory if ever viewed. So if you'll never use them, best thing is to delete them without ever loading them. This I consider a bug, as it is redundant data storage. Note that you don't really delete them, they will still reside in the pre-loaded memory but at least they will never have the chance of migrating into user memory.
- ringtones, themes, and games do not get copied into user memory ever.
- The T300 current fimware does not allocate the proper pointer links to the game and MMS resources upon master reset. This is why it will show that memory is used by it (it really is used by it) but it is not user memory but pre-installed data memory and there is nothing you can do about it, but the best you can get is at least use the games and have access to the templates (which we currently don't)
-If you do a partial master reset (remove the battery in the middle of it) you get random results (I even ended up with duplicate copies of the MMS welcome messages in my MMS inbox on one occasion).

I've also heard in another thread that the latest firmware fixes the game problem, meaning that the games become available after a master reset and Erix is gone from the selection. I have yet to confirm that it also fixes the MMS Template memory problem and the picture memory duplication issue.

For now, I only have lost 149K due to no games being availabe, but at least I got my MMS templates back!

I hope you got to the end of this reading and appreciate the write-up!

Cheers!

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!

Joined: Dec 05, 2002
Posts: 88
From: Wales, UK
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Posted: 2002-12-07 13:44

I am getting a T68i soon, which I presume will have the latest version of firmware already loaded onto the phone...

Does this bug when master resetting losing all MMS yet still using memory exist in the T68i

Thanx

Cytech

Joined: Feb 19, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: Stockholm, Sweden
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Posted: 2002-12-07 13:47

Quote:

On 2002-12-07 13:44, LadFromWales85 wrote:
I am getting a T68i soon, which I presume will have the latest version of firmware already loaded onto the phone...

Does this bug when master resetting losing all MMS yet still using memory exist in the T68i

Thanx

yes... the example MMS messages are deleted when doing the master reset on the latest firmware

Joined: Dec 06, 2002
Posts: 17
From: CA, USA
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Posted: 2002-12-07 19:15

GTakacs, so you were able to get your MMS templates back after you did a partial master reset? I never tried that, I have always done a full master reset (not removing the battery). I still have all my MMS templates, I just no longer have my games.

I can load all my games back, but they will now take up additional memory compared to before, which sucks. But I guess I will just have to get by with that for now.

Thanks for the writeup! I just hope that somebody at SE is working out the kinks and will have a new firmware that addresses these problems for us real soon...

Joined: Dec 05, 2002
Posts: 88
From: Wales, UK
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Posted: 2002-12-07 20:08

So basically, doing a master reset ruins the phone as you will never be able to get the MMS's back...

Is there any way to get it back?

Joined: Nov 21, 2002
Posts: 68
From: USA, Fort Worth, TX
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Posted: 2002-12-07 20:20

Yes, there is a way to get your MMS Templates back.

1) You phone might give them back to you after a normal master reset.
2) If it doesn't then you can do a parital master reset that I have outlined above and it will give your MMS Templates back.

The only thing that you will use with the master reset which has been confirmad is the 3 pre-installed games besides Erix. Those will be gone, but they actually still exist in your phone but they can't be accessed.

Overall the phone has 579K user memory besides all the pre-installed stuff, and if you do a master reset the same 579K will still be there but the part of the pre-installed things will be gone (MMS Templates and/or games) And to get them back (add them to your phone) it would take up extra space from the 579K.

So if you've had no need for your MMS templates and the games to start with you don't lose anything with a master reset, only the capability to use them, no extra memory is lost.

I hope that makes it clear for everyone!

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!