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Explosions on London Underground! |
absinthebri
Joined: Feb 11, 2004
Posts: 476
From: London, UK
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On 2005-07-09 14:22:25, slattery69 wrote:
bush and blair has killed more people than saddam has ever killed in decades.
i think the families of the 250,000 kurds who were killed by saddams regiem may disagree with that statement
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Where did you get the figure of 250,000 from?
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axxxr
Joined: Mar 21, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Londinium
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On 2005-07-09 14:07:49, scotsboyuk wrote:
@axxxr
There really is no need to use bad language and I don't really think this particualr thread is appropriate for such intense debate.
You have your opinions and that is fine. Having studied the history of this particualr subject for a number of years I am familiar with the issues and themes involved. The terrorists didn't attack the West before because the West was the lesser of two evils. Communism was a bigger threat to them than the West, indeed the West supported them. Now that their greatest foe is gone they turn to others. The history of the subject is easy to research and, with respect, your points seem to indicate either a deep seated bias or a lack of familiarity with that history.
I have absolutely no interest in debating any of these issues in this thread (or any other thread for that matter) and I do apologise to everyone for my part in the recent off-topic course of this thread.
Once again, there is a thread dealing with politico-religious issue, which you can find here.
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I rarely use bad language but this subject really frustrates me because we in the west blame muslims and these countries and their religion for the all the problems that we are resonsible for..everything that is happening today is our own doing and not theirs...
I to do not want to make this thread into a political debate but if your going to make such unfair statements then you should expect a reply.
I don't think you need to be a genius to undertsand and know the history of the Middle east...even a fool knows how Israel was reated and dare i say who started the gulf wars...We have been seeing the histoy of the middle east being played out on the media day after day and has been doing so for the last 15 years...so you dont need a masters in political history to know this.
The so called terrorists did'nt attack us before is not because of the exsistence of communism its because we did'nt choose to pick a fight with them before..Why is it so difficult to understand such an easy for point?..Its baffles me how people blame these muslim states for the problems which mostly america has created...Whatever the situation we in the west better learn not poke our nose in mainly muslim states otherwise i fear we may have a situation we can no longer controle.
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[ This Message was edited by: axxxr on 2005-07-09 13:35 ] |
slattery69
Joined: Jan 03, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: north east england
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On 2005-07-09 14:26:41, absinthebri wrote:
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On 2005-07-09 14:22:25, slattery69 wrote:
bush and blair has killed more people than saddam has ever killed in decades.
i think the families of the 250,000 kurds who were killed by saddams regiem may disagree with that statement
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Where did you get the figure of 250,000 from?
it was from the united nations.
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soulframe
Joined: May 23, 2003
Posts: 225
From: London
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@ scotsboyuk
Mate unfortunaltey neither of are mods (afaik) so as much we'd like people to stick to the topic at hand, it ain't gonna happen.
@ axxxr
People like you and me are labeled as nuts or conspiracy theorists, because the the majority of the planet have been brainwashed into believing those in power have no 'agenda' or alterior motive and that the media reports the 'truth'. Let the those who think they know it all beleive what they want to beleive. We try to educate them, get them open their eyes, read between the lines, but they won't listen. We should leave them to their fate, God please forgive them for their naivety and ignorance.
Yet again I totally agree with you mate but please for the respect of other users, lets continue this in another thread.
I think you should read the following: http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-[....]cy_theory/fullstory.asp?id=249
and
http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-[....]full_story.asp?service_id=9212
@upper
I know what your talking about and you should read the following:
http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-[....]full_story.asp?service_id=9212
P.s. sorry for all the spelling mistakes!
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[ This Message was edited by: soulframe on 2005-07-09 13:44 ]
[ This Message was edited by: soulframe on 2005-07-09 13:45 ]
[ This Message was edited by: soulframe on 2005-07-09 13:45 ] |
axxxr
Joined: Mar 21, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Londinium
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On 2005-07-09 14:22:25, slattery69 wrote:
i think the families of the 250,000 kurds who were killed by saddams regiem may disagree with that statement
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So that make it ok then for Bush & blair to go an murder 100,000's of innocent iraqis then does it?...To any sensible man this would seem like they were as bad as Saddam.
[addsig] |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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@axxxr
You will see from my earlier posts that I at no time blame any Muslim state nor do I seek to assign blame to any particualr religion or country. As I said, you are entitled to your opinions. As a historian I have to say that your statements seem to subectively ignore certain aspects of the history of this issue, which is why I would urge you to research the issue from both sides, but that is just my professional opinion.
As I have previously stated, I am not interested in debating this issue and quite frankly I don't know why it is being debated by anyone on a mobile phone website. There are dedicated political and/or religious forums on the internet that would probably have dedicated areas for such debate. I daresay that you, and anyone else wishing to discuss such matters, would probably find people wishing to take up such a debate there.
There is one that I am currently a member of, which you may like to take a look at. You can find it here.
Can this thread now be allowed to return to its original purpose of discussing the events in London?
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
slattery69
Joined: Jan 03, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: north east england
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On 2005-07-09 14:45:01, axxxr wrote:
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On 2005-07-09 14:22:25, slattery69 wrote:
i think the families of the 250,000 kurds who were killed by saddams regiem may disagree with that statement
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So that make it ok then for Bush & blair to go an murder 100,000's of innocent iraqis then does it?...To any sensible man this would seem like they were as bad as Saddam.
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are you unable to read where did i say that they where not a bad please point it out. all i was doing was bring some balance to it. people make it sound like the west just decided to bomb saddams happy little paridise were everyone was happy and there were no problems.
i have said many time i did nt agree with the war on iraq however neither did i agree with the way saddam treat his people. while he lived in gold palaces and drove around in the best western cars money could buy . i dislike any place were people do not have the freedom to chose who governs them or be able to speak freely.
this thread like many others on esato wouldnt be possible in certain parts of the world and that i find extremly sad
[ This Message was edited by: slattery69 on 2005-07-09 13:59 ] |
axxxr
Joined: Mar 21, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Londinium
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On 2005-07-09 14:45:18, scotsboyuk wrote:
@axxxr
As a historian I have to say that your statements seem to subectively ignore certain aspects of the history of this issue, which is why I would urge you to research the issue from both sides, but that is just my professional opinion.
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What aspects might they be then i dare ask?...The fact that we started a illegle war with Iraq which was not sanctioned by the U.N and that this whole war was based on Lies and Deceit i.e: Fake Dosier,No WMD's,45 mins attack warning..Murdering their people for what exactly??...removing 1 man saddam??.I think that is a pretty solid and fair reason for the Iraqi's to attack us don't you think?
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[ This Message was edited by: axxxr on 2005-07-09 13:58 ] |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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@axxxr
As I have said on two previous occassions in this thread, I am not going to debate the matter with you. First of all this thread is not the place for it and the author of the thread has specifically requested that people try to stay on-topic plus there is the fact that I have absolutely no interest in debating the issue anyway.
You should follow the link I posted earlier, there are people on that forum who will be quite happy to debate this with you.
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
axxxr
Joined: Mar 21, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Londinium
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Thats fine and understandable that you no longer want to debate this here...However i was just trying to get into the finer details of how and what was responsible for the attacks in london.
[addsig] |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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@axxxr
Well the current thinking seems ot be that it could have been a small independent cell acting of its own violation. This is certainly very plausible and does not bode well for the interception of future atatcks I have to say.
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
upper
Joined: Apr 17, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: London UK
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On 2005-07-09 14:21:26, Sammy_boy wrote:
All I know is that the Middle East has been a problem for the last 2,000 years at least, they were problems in that area in Biblical times, there were the crusades in that area in the 11/12th etc. centuries, and the current troubles.
And I wondered how long before the consipiracy theories started, we've already gone one person with something so 'secret' he can't post it - let me guess, it's the British secret service/CIA/the French?
I agree with scotsboy, this has gone a bit too far off topic, it is getting too political! 
And degenerating into a flame war - best stop now, eh, before it gets locked?
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hehehe are you trying to read my mind are you?  well great job in doing that. as you guys no as after the 9/11 bush and blair were desperately trying to bring in the id cards for the NEW WORLD ORDER but fortunately they were unsuccessful, people thought it will invade there civil liberty and that the government will play big brother on the people of GB. so people what is the best way to make people crave for the id cards? for them to want the id cards? you no last week or 2 60% or more of british people rejected the idea of id cards that went up sharply 4 yrs later after the 9/11. so the best way for the british people to beg the government to bring in the id cards is to make another terorist attack like the 9/11 style in london. now i am sure that the people rejected the id cards before 7/7/05 will now fully want the id cards to be brought into place, but if they are smart they will no what bush or blair is upto.
lol i think i am going to get fried for this lol
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[ This Message was edited by: upper on 2005-07-09 21:46 ] |
peeta
Joined: Apr 14, 2003
Posts: 147
From: Scotland
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Charles Clark has said himself that he doesn't believe that i.d. cards would have prevented the attacks on thursday (which suprised me cos i was waiting for them to make the opposite statement...call me skeptical, cynical whatever)
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upper
Joined: Apr 17, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: London UK
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On 2005-07-09 18:50:52, peeta wrote:
Charles Clark has said himself that he doesn't believe that i.d. cards would have prevented the attacks on thursday (which suprised me cos i was waiting for them to make the opposite statement...call me skeptical, cynical whatever)
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yes i no, but its not about him its about the pm blair he believes it will work, lets pray that the skull and bone poeple will fail in there devil ideas. remember not everyone works for the government no's whats happening around them. tell me who wants to be spied on where ever they go?
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[ This Message was edited by: upper on 2005-07-09 18:00 ] |
PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: The Ummah
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Big question for me is why is ISLAM the first to be blamed at all times when any terrorist/violent act occurs in the world today??
This is my opinion: ISLAM which means PEACE is officially the fastest growing religion in the world today, more non-muslims converted to ISLAM after 9/11 in America alone. "WHY" you may ask, well a few friends of mine in America told me that after 9/11 the public in America wanted to know more about this religion ISLAM that has been on the news daily, so they all went to the librarys and book stores and all started purchasing the ISLAMIC bible named the HOLY QURAN to find out exactly what is mentioned by GOD almighty. After reading the holy book many many Americans coverted to ISLAM.
The HOLY QURAN does no allow any MUSLIM to kill another Human/s as every human has a purpose for being created.
Another very important factor which the media hides from us all today is that when the TALIBAN captured the BBC reporter Yvonne Ridley after 9/11, the british media said that the Taliban treated her very badly and when she was released her name was no longer mentioned, question is WHY!! Well, the reason is because wen she was released she was told by the Taliban to read about ISLAM and the HOLY QURAN, after doing this she officially converted to Islam and now presents on Islam Channel on Sky TV channel 836.
My point is that Islam is today the most misunderstood religion today because of the media but the truth is that it is the most peaceful religion.
Read about Islam, Read what the HOLY QURAN tries to explain to us and then judge for yourselves what is right and wrong.
[ This Message was edited by: PeterKay on 2005-07-09 18:11 ] |
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Posted: 2005-07-09 14:26
