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No edge support in SE phones |
turt
Joined: Dec 31, 2004
Posts: 236
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BTW SE has announced a PC Card GC95 ( http://www.sonyericsson.com/s[....]5_1&zone=pp&lm=pp5_1&pid=10237 )
which is UMTS/EDGE/GPRS quadriband! Wow
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On 2005-05-14 11:59:49, Super G wrote:
@scotsboyuk
Yes, quite.  is selling EDGE/WLAN data cards for european market (900,1800 + 1900 for USroaming). And without 3G support. Check website if u like. Just to prove u wrong that in fact does sell EDGE products intended for european market. Now, why they dont sell phones, I dont know. At the same time, it is interesting to note Nokia is not having data cards anymore. EDGE is coming in laptops as a de facto technology (e.g sony vaio, so far targetttedfor US market), along with eg BT, WLAN that must be the reason.
Edit: and yes, having EDGE-only data cards wouldnt make sense, but my post referred to EDGE products for Europe (Not having WLAN in a datacard wouldnt make any sense, obviously)
[ This Message was edited by: Super G on 2005-05-14 11:06 ]
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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On 2005-05-14 11:25:37, Prom1 wrote:
This isnt and shouldn't be considered a stop gap. Their implementing EDGE for the same reason I've posted as a QoS option, and wider presence of data service options. Your post mentions that the telco chose EDGE because the very nature of WCDMA cannot reach rural areas without the added cost of repeaters & their leases for those locations. Then the cost of licensing... yes they may already have 3G license but for what spectrum & how many towers per area - by spectrum I mean by purchase spectrum not 3G 2100mhz bandwidth, but the actual purchase band 30Mhz or whathaveyou.
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The rest of that quote (quite a short one so readily readable) explains that Swisscom's UMTS service currently covers approximately 90% of the Swiss population. The quote also mentions that Swisscom are comitted to UMTS as the future.
It seems entirely sensible to me that to expand their fast data covereage into areas where their UMTS service hasn't reached yet they should use EDGE. I have stated this previously and I wish that more European networks would follow suit.
Having said that EDGE is not a long term option for them. Continuing with the Swisscom example they are committed to UMTS, not EDGE, not GPRS, but UMTS; the same is true for all the major European networks. Hence EDGE is a stop-gap measure, which some networks have sensibly utilised to fill the void until they can create universal 3G covereage.
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I wish I could explain it better but I cant. Only example is in Canada Rogers Wireless along with every other carrier purchased new licenses for the next year, even though GPRS & EDGE operates at 850/1900Mhz here their actual purchased license mentions 20/30Mhz for certain areas of the country; this is what I'm refering too.
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I could be wrong, but aren't you referring to the amount of bandwidth purchased as opposed to the actual frequency?
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Besides in other European country's where EDGE is trialed, why is it trialed if 3G is so successful & EDGE isnt wanted? For stop gap reasons? Or until more leases for more umts towers could be purchased.
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Licences for towers isn't really the issue in Europe since the UMTS networks have already purchased their licences. The various EU governments (and non-EU governments) then mandated certain levels of covereage the networks had to achieve by certain dates.
Quite why people keep saying UMTS is 'so succcessful' I'm not sure. 3G is doing well at the moment, with a sharp rise in uptake last year and a bigger rise expectex this year. 2.5G will still be the dominant technology used for a few years yet at least. It takes time to persuade (or force) everyone to switch to 3G.
At the moment the networks are primarily concerned with expanding their covereage of urban areas where the bulf of the population is concentrated. This makes perfect sense from an economic standpoint of course, but it obviously doesn't do much for rural customers. Some networks (quite sensibly in my opinion) might consider utilising EDGE as a stop-gap measure for the enxt few years to shore up their rural covereage until their UMTS networks can catch up, in geographic terms, with their population covereage.
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EDGE has its place, to co-exist with wcdma; currently as QoS implemention, video calls or live video voicemail - a feature that will soon be widespread - wont work with gprs data rates, this is where EDGE would help.
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EDGE has its place in the here and now, it has no viable long term future in Europe. The networks are determined to create a single standard e.g. UMTS that customers will use for all their communication needs e.g. calls, data, etc. EDGE should have been implemented in Europe a few years ago, but of course the reason is politics on the part of the networks. If they already had a service offerring fast data then it is all the harder to persudae people of the need for UMTS.
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btw lovely points of views this thread has produced. I hope no more insults arise as we're all more mature.
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I rather hope they shall, it's what makes this sort of thread interesting. 
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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On 2005-05-14 11:59:49, Super G wrote:
@scotsboyuk
Yes, quite. is selling EDGE/WLAN data cards for european market (900,1800 + 1900 for USroaming). And without 3G support. Check website if u like. Just to prove u wrong that in fact does sell EDGE products intended for european market.
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Ah so pettiness is the name of the game! Well perhaps you should keep up with the thread old boy, since I was speaking of handsets, but no matter. You may also be interested to learn that those products aren't sold in every European country.
The fact still remains that SE could be selling a million EDGE enabled products, but they would still be coasters in much of Europe earning them about as much as benefits cheat with a bad back.
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Now, why they dont sell phones, I dont know.
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Because they would be useless to most of their customers and make them very little money. That was an easy one!
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At the same time, it is interesting to note Nokia is not having data cards anymore. EDGE is coming in laptops as a de facto technology (e.g sony vaio, so far targetttedfor US market), along with eg BT, WLAN that must be the reason.
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Possibly or perhaps there could be that little known factor of other companys being more successful in an market segment? Perhaps PC cards just aren't economically viable for Nokia? With the networks releasing PC cards themselves it puts more strain on the manufacturers in trying to compete.
Integrated Wi-Fi is certainly endangering the future of Wi-Fi cards just as integrated Bluetooth is doing the same with Bluetooth dongles, but there will still be a market for GPRS/EDGE.UMTS PC cards for some time to come.
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Edit: and yes, having EDGE-only data cards wouldnt make sense, but my post referred to EDGE products for Europe (Not having WLAN in a datacard wouldnt make any sense, obviously)
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One wonders why you bothered mentioning it all then. EDGE products are never going to be major sellers in Europe for anyone. If EDGE were any great selling point I imagine that we would have seen a plethora of EDGE enabled products from all the major manufacturers by now. Instead what we see are the manufacturers releasing ever more UMTS enabled products.
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
mario2002
Joined: Feb 15, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Jeffrey's-Bay ,South Africa
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One point which no one mentioned is : UMTS needs about twice as many repeater towers compared to GSM. Now in urban areas isn't a big deal to erect towers all over the place, but in rural a poses some problems.Here in South Africa the cell company can't get a so called 'enviormental licence' in some places. Eventually they will sort things out but it may add another year or so till the intended area is covert.Now I grew up in Germany and I can assure you the cell companies will battle even worse there to erect tonyers all over the landscape ! On the other hand WIMAX is really going to get implemented - and please if you are technicaly minded please look on the net to see how elegantly WIMAX solves many problems UMTS still battles with ! Not only less connection overheads but the ping times are around 20% less then umts. And at the bandwith WIMAX operates you could make a HD-duplex videocall ! Also because the frq. is not regulated yet no licence is needed! (same as wifi)
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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@mario
The problem with Wi-Max of course, is that it requires a an infrastructure to be built from scratch as well as convincing people to use it. I don't think Wi-Max will ever be a serious contender in the mobile phone market with WCDMA and CDMA 2000 set to dominate in the near future.
Wi-Max does have a potentially important role to play though, but how long that will take to be realised is another matter entirely.
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
some_1_100
Joined: Jan 13, 2005
Posts: 46
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Yah right
I agree
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mustafabay
Joined: Sep 27, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Egypt
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In adition to the fact that Wimax is designed to replace wired broadband, which means its main purpose is for static users. |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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From: UK
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@mustafabay
I read an article, which envisaged Wi-Max covering whole cities in a giant 'hot spot'. Quite a nice vision ... 
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
Super G
Joined: Mar 07, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: France
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@scotsboyuk
I was just highlighting that does make EDGE terminals, albeit datacards alone, targetted for European market.
Anyway, I bet my 2 cents we will see in the near future some EDGE-capable handsets from for Europe/Asian markets.
You might wonder why I posted it (feel free), but its I believe relevant to this thread. Anyway, not my problem. |
mustafabay
Joined: Sep 27, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Egypt
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@scotsboyuk
I hope your right.
@Super G
I wouldn't complain if they do, just hope your gut is accurate 
With companies like Huaewi, or whatever its called its chinese, making 3G and 2.5G base stations I'd think some companies wouldn't care about edge, afterall they don't want you to have a cheap alternative to 3G. Of course I'm talking about countries that aren't already covered by 3G and have patchy networks outside cities. |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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From: UK
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On 2005-05-15 15:46:32, Super G wrote:
@scotsboyuk
Anyway, I bet my 2 cents we will see in the near future some EDGE-capable handsets from for Europe/Asian markets.
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There are already EDGE enabled handsets available in Europe, but they are almost useless in that respect. The manufacturers can really only follow the networks in such circumstances and the big networks are unlikely to deploy EDGE to any great extent in Europe.
Until the likes of Vodafone, O2, Orange, T-Mobile, etc implement EDGE on a broad level the manaufacturers are unlikely to make EDGE a major design concern.
SE are more likely to release EDGE enabled handsets for Asian markets than they are for European markets.
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
mario2002
Joined: Feb 15, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Jeffrey's-Bay ,South Africa
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Hello buddy.Thanks fors the chat on IM :-) How many countries in europe do you think already offer EDGE ? In your previous post you mention something about EDGE enabled cellphone availability in Europe.I agree with you there.But you carry on stating - edge is almost useless in europe,now I have quite a few IM buddies nicelly spread all over Europe. I speak english,german,dutch and romanian all european languages :-) the info I get from them and what you are saying is 'a bit' different.Most don't even bother about 3G but happily embrace EDGE.It seems to me that in Europe as in the rest of the world,pricing is very important when marketing a product.Please don't get me wrong buddy, I am not rude with you or anything. 3G is more advanced and wonderfull and all that,but I think some time will pass till everybody accepts it. I am a bit worried thou,it may take to long and competing technologies may make it obsolete by the time everybody accepts it. Greetings from South Africa. Mario.
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REO
Joined: Nov 21, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: U.S.A.
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Below is a pic of an SE PC card made by SE. My cell Phone provider has a good deal here. Read below
Sony Ericsson GC83
Operates on 850/1800/1900 MHz EDGE/GPRS Networks
Compatible with Windows 98/SE/ME/2000/SP2/XP
EDGE PC Card for wireless online surfing as fast as DSL
View Accessories
FREE AFTER MAIL-IN REBATE
Online Price:
$149.99
Contract: 2 years
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REO
Joined: Nov 21, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: U.S.A.
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Sony Will Ship EDGE Laptop In June
Wednesday, 1:40 PM source: Engadget / AP
Sony yesterday launched the T350, an ultraportable-class laptop with built-in GPRS / EDGE data capabilities as well as Wi-Fi and Bluetooth. The T350 ships with software from Cingular that makes signing on to their data service simple, and features SmartFi, a new technology to make switching between cellular and Wi-Fi data services effortless. The T350 does not support HSDPA, the 3G data technology that Cingular intends to launch, however it does have a PC Card slot to add a 3G data card. Sony has said they are looking into developing laptops with UMTS / HSDPA data capabilities, but have not made any formal decisions on a product yet.
http://www.phonescoop.com/
iphone rocks... |
orange
Joined: Mar 13, 2002
Posts: 397
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On 2005-05-13 15:41:32, scotsboyuk wrote:
Well the standard formatting used in English (the language we are all using here) is to put the slowest one at the left and work your way to the right where the fastest should be. Certainly that's how it is written most often as far as I can see.
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I don't know what standards do you use in UK or if you had math in school. Those things that I used between technologies are mathematical symbols.
">" means "greater than", ie. the clause on the left side of the sign is bigger, or in this case faster, than the one on the right side.
It's good to learn something new every day...
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On 2005-05-13 15:41:32, scotsboyuk wrote:
You suggested that networks should use EDGE because it is not a competing technology with WCDMA.
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Can't recall saying that. Could you point me where I have said that? I only said that those are not competing technologies. Period.
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On 2005-05-13 15:41:32, scotsboyuk wrote:
To be fair to the networks, 3G does roll off the tongue a little easier than WCDMA and 3.5G is in a similar position with HSDPA. It's all about buzzwords, the networks love buzzwords.
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That's not exactly what I meant. For end user they should use something non-technical buzzword marketing, no 3G's, WCDMA, EDGE's. Something else.
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On 2005-05-13 15:41:32, scotsboyuk wrote:
Make no mistake about it, 3G covereage is definitely on the rise and I would say that within the next decade all EU nations at least will have some level of 3G covereage. This covereage will be at blanket levels in many nations and likely at near blanket levels in many others.
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I think we have a bit different idea what is rapid. For you it seems that decade is rapid, but for me it's not. Also the vendors, who are actually delivering the infrastructure and devices, are saying that the development of 3G hasn't been as fast as expected.
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On 2005-05-13 15:41:32, scotsboyuk wrote:
One wonders then why you have such trouble in understanding the relatively simple arguments being forwarded here as to why EDGE is not supported by either SE in anything but a minority of their products.
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One also wonders why Nokia has implemented it succesfully...
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On 2005-05-13 15:41:32, scotsboyuk wrote:
Ironic that you do believe your own hype though.
Anyone who believes that any mass technology involving the building of infrastructure on national and even continental levels will be smooth sailing is quite probably asking why gullible was removed from the dictionary at the moment.
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I don't quite get what you're implying here. I wasn't hyping anything, quite opposite. You're the one who's hyping the rapid growth of 3G.
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On 2005-05-13 15:41:32, scotsboyuk wrote:
It is? As far as I can see the 3G market is heavily dominated, across Europe at any rate, by LG, NEC and Motorola as well as considerable input from SE. This is in no small part due to the fact that these manufacturers (with the exception of SE) have been used by 3, which was one of the first 3G networks in Europe.
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I recall this funny thing about 3, when they launched 3G services. They didn't take Nokia 3G devices to their portfolio, because it didn't have video call capability. A short while after, probably because of low sales, they were kind of forced to took Nokia 7600 to their portfolio. The results of that can be read all over, here e.g. http://techdigestuk.typepad.c[....]t/2004/03/threes_hit_phon.html . I couldn't find the news, but I remember reading somewhere that when 7600 sold 7000 - 10000 units per week, the second most sold device (some motorola) sold around 1000 units per week. Hence I wouldn't call it's dominated by those you raised.
[ This Message was edited by: orange on 2005-05-16 07:58 ]
[ This Message was edited by: orange on 2005-05-16 08:03 ] | |
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Access the forum with a mobile phone via esato.mobi
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Posted: 2005-05-14 16:36
