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so who is religous here? |
joebmc
Joined: Jan 03, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Kent
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How do Muslims know the Quran as never been changed. None of them here today were there when it was written so how do you know its exactly the same.
Because you've been told? Is there any evidence that its never been changed?
Who ever wins the war rights the history.
I'm sure if Hitler had won he would be made out the be a great person now. Rather than an evil sh1t.
So how do we know that a great leader/king (not saying hitler was) did'nt change the Quran many years ago like the bible was changed (by king solomon)?
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[ This Message was edited by: joebmc on 2005-10-20 17:52 ]
[ This Message was edited by: joebmc on 2005-10-20 17:55 ] |
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PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
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From: The Ummah
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The evidence is the fact that wherever you go in the world you will find the same copy of the Quran which has not altered. In the month of Ramadhan the Quran is repeated in Taraweeh Prayers all over the world in the arabic language (click the link in my sig after 6:30pm to watch live prayers from mecca). This has been ordained since the days of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and will remain till the day of judgement. This is one way of knowing that the Quran is still the same and has been for over 1400 years.
Allah says in the Quran that he himself will protect the Quran from any change and this is why it cannot be changed. If the Creator himself guards his book then no human can alter his book and this is hard proof on why it can never ever change.
Verse 9 from Chapter 15 states:
We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it from corruption.
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solidsingh
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
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From: india
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muslims tried to burn our holy book a long time ago..
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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From: UK
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@solidsingh
I'm sure many holy books have been burned by various people. What exactly is your point?
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
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From: The Ummah
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Quote:
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On 2005-10-20 21:55:42, solidsingh wrote:
muslims tried to burn our holy book a long time ago..
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The Holy Quran gets burnt all over the world. But if the holy Quran is in peoples hearts totally verse by verse then burning the holy books is not the end of the faith. If Hitler was to burn all the Holy Qurans all over the word for example, it does not mean that it's the end o the Quran as thousands possibly millions of humans around the world know it verse by verse. Just here in my locality within a 20 mile radias i know at least 200-300 students who know the full Quran by memory. Imagine how many know it all over the world.
This is the beauty of The Holy Quran, when Almighty Allah says he will look after it he means it.
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[ This Message was edited by: PeterKay on 2005-10-20 22:25 ] |
joebmc
Joined: Jan 03, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Kent
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You say the Quran has never been changed and is the same all over the world yet in the link about "the contradiction in the Quran" its says "Wrong translation" and "Incorrect interpretation" of the Quran all the time.
So as I see it the Quran has changed. Maybe these same wrong translations and incorrect interpretations happened again many years ago, in which would create a non-original Quran!
Obviously the “The evidence is the fact that wherever you go in the world you will find the same copy of the Quran which has not altered.” is not true as there are many different ways in which the Quran is translated/interpreted. For example, the Muslims who think there doing right buy killing innocent people (suicide bombers and that).
Plus if you get a copy of the 2005 edition (?) of the bible I’m sure that’s the same all over the world. They is no real hard evidence that the Quran is exactly the same as it was when first written.
[ This Message was edited by: joebmc on 2005-10-20 22:43 ] |
PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
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Believe what you want to but deep down i think it hurts you to know that the Quran has not changed, question is why?
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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From: UK
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@Peter
joe makes a valid point there, in translating the Quran it will go through some changes. No two languages are exactly the same and a word in one language may not have a direct equivalent in another. Hence interpretation comes into play.
The original Hebrew of the Old Testament doesn't read the exact same as the modern English Old Testament. Pardon the pun, but some of it has been lost in translation. So where the original Hewbrew speaks of God in the plural sense the modern English version speaks of God in a singular male sense.
Has the Quran survived intact in the original Arabic that was spoken 1400 years ago or has Arabic itelf changed?
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"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2005-10-21 15:42 ] |
gelfen
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Melbourne, Australia
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the other question i was going to ask, which relates to scotsboy's question, is something that is often asked of the bible:
is the quran copied from the original writing, or a subsequent copy or copies of that writing (which may or may not have been subject to error) and is it the same as those copies?
for my own general interest - does the orginal version of the quran still exist, and if so has anyone in modern times actually read it?
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[ This Message was edited by: gelfen on 2005-10-21 03:45 ] |
PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
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From: The Ummah
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The original text Quran is still available in Turkey which is over 1400 years old which is still the same as the Qurans available today. The language is the same, the text is the same, the paper used may have been different but the context is exactly the same. It is available in Istanbul for those interested.
Why Turkey? well, the turks left mecca and were allowed to take alot of the belongings of the holy prophet (pbuh) and they took the Holy Quran, some of the Holy Prophets garments and many other items.
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solidsingh
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: india
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why would he be hurt that the quran has not been changed, its no skin off his nose
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dealer3
Joined: Apr 11, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: London
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Quote:
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On 2005-10-20 23:00:19, PeterKay wrote:
Quote:
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On 2005-10-20 21:55:42, solidsingh wrote:
muslims tried to burn our holy book a long time ago..
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The Holy Quran gets burnt all over the world. But if the holy Quran is in peoples hearts totally verse by verse then burning the holy books is not the end of the faith. If Hitler was to burn all the Holy Qurans all over the word for example, it does not mean that it's the end o the Quran as thousands possibly millions of humans around the world know it verse by verse. Just here in my locality within a 20 mile radias i know at least 200-300 students who know the full Quran by memory. Imagine how many know it all over the world.
This is the beauty of The Holy Quran, when Almighty Allah says he will look after it he means it.
_________________
"Verily in the heavens and the earth, are Signs for those who believe"
Watch 'ISLAM CHANNEL' Live wherever you are in the world
[ This Message was edited by: PeterKay on 2005-10-20 22:25 ]
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like peterkay says solid...
altough people try the Qur'aan will always be in its orignal version...
many people like myself know it off by heart...word to word...verse to verse...front to back...
whereas many of the other scriptures which muslims should and do believe are also the word of God have been changed and that is the reason why muslims dnt follow fully other holy books...
e.g.
muslims belive the Holy Bible WAS sent down by god to Jesus (peace be upon him) however we belive and know that it has been changed as there are many contrdictions within it...and God doesnt make mistakes, so the Bible has been alterred which is why many many people know the Holy Qur'aan off by heart...
hope that answers your questions and confusions |
PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
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From: The Ummah
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100% correct.
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joebmc
Joined: Jan 03, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Kent
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Muhammad couldn't read or write could he?
So he recited the Quran to people who then wrote it down for him.
So how could he have verified its truth?
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PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
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From: The Ummah
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Muhammad (pbuh) did have memory, soon as a verse was revealed via angel Gabrael it was written down by the Companions of The Holy Prophet (pbuh).
@Joe, whether you believe it or not The Quran has not changed. If you don't want to believe it don't but us Muslims do believe this and its a fact.
Why is it so painful to know that the Quran is still the same?
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Posted: 2005-10-20 18:49
