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No edge support in SE phones |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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@shyam335
Video calling can be somewhat jittery with 3G, so I don't imagine that it would be at all good using EDGE even if it were possible to do what you suggest.
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC | |
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shyam335
Joined: May 25, 2004
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From: 127.0.0.1
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something is better than nothing , huh  , nevermind,my crazy idea.
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mib1800
Joined: Mar 18, 2004
Posts: > 500
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I always think that video-calling (3G only) would not take off as fast as the data part (3G or EDGE). We are so used to the internet so a natural progression is to enable the same on the phone. Video call is new so it will be some time before people accept this (if they ever will).
In Europe, operators sunk so much money into 3G, they cannot introduce EGDE eventhough benefit outweighs the cost as this would cannibalise their 3G investment.
In the rest of the world, it is different. Many operators are now wait and see on 3G as they want to see how it plays out in Europe. So many are looking at EDGE as a cheaper alternatives to roll out broadband services on the phone.
So whichever way you look at it, it is still foolish for SE to ignore EDGE.
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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From: UK
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@mib1800
Not at all, SE only really concentrate on two markets, which are both 3G. I would agree with your statement in relation to manufacturers like Nokia, Samsung, etc.
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Super G
Joined: Mar 07, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: France
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On 2005-05-11 17:49:41, goldenface wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong but from what I know so far, Edge does not support Video calling and if this is so then a Video call would not transfer to Edge. Compatibility may be an issue also.
Whether it will in the future I cannot say.
[ This Message was edited by: goldenface on 2005-05-11 16:51 ]
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Packet video is not supported in EDGE.
CS video is, but is not deployed. |
goldenface
Joined: Dec 17, 2003
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From: Liverpool City Centre
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@Super G. Thanks. Whats CS Video? |
orange
Joined: Mar 13, 2002
Posts: 397
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On 2005-05-11 16:29:34, scotsboyuk wrote:
A lot of blaah blaah...
Operators who implement both EDGE and 3G will eventually find themselves having to choose between the two; it is inevitable.
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This is the point we have different views. You're saying that those two are competing technologies ie. networks/operators would have to choose one. But I'm still saying that those are complementary and you don't (wan't to?) understand why. I'll try to explain it more clearer:
The data speeds in the network goes like this in Europe at the moment, WCDMA > EGPRS > GPRS. Operator/network has the power to control it's own network, not the user. Operator can force the user to WCDMA, when available. When there's no WCDMA coverage, EGPRS comes in and when there's no EGPRS coverage, GPRS comes in. So, user always uses the fastest possible network available and has no control which one is used. Operator controls that. This is why I see those are not competing technologies.
And I don't see why it would make marketing to the end user difficult.
"Dear Customer, Welcome to use our 3G network! Our 3G coverage area at the moment is not covering the whole country yet. You still don't have to worry about the data speeds outside the 3G area where we have EDGE network available for you enabling fast data speeds. If you have anything to ask, please do not hesitate to contact our custormer service."
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On 2005-05-11 16:29:34, scotsboyuk wrote:
EDGE has a limited shelf-life and it will no doubt serve certain operators well who are either operating in smaller markets; poorer markets; markets with 3G implementation problems; markets where EDGE has already been implemented or a combination of these factors. Each individual market has its own needs of course, but in the context of Europe those needs need to eb taken together as a whole too. Simply put, EDGE ha sno long term future in Europe, it may exist in various forms in the short-term, but in the long term it is defunct in Europe.
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This is like saying that GSM networks has no short term future in Europe?! EDGE runs on GSM networks. WCDMA networks will have a very limited coverage in Europe for quite a while still. Only a handfull of countries in Europe will have full WCDMA coverage in some phase. You're speaking like England is Europe and will have full coverage at some phase. That's not the case. |
Super G
Joined: Mar 07, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: France
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On 2005-05-12 10:07:51, goldenface wrote:
@Super G. Thanks. Whats CS Video?
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Circuit-switched video, as opposed to packet-switched video.
Video telephony deployed today in 3G is using a circuit-switched bearer (64kbps video).
You could compare this -to some extent- in the same manner between circuit-switched voice (the one we know in GSM, WCDMA e.g. AMR) and Voice over IP (packet-switched voice). |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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On 2005-05-12 11:54:29, orange wrote:
On 2005-05-11 16:29:34, scotsboyuk wrote:
A lot of blaah blaah...
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I'm sorry, but I don't keep up to date with street speak, is this the new euphamism for I shall ignore those points I find inconvenient?
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This is the point we have different views. You're saying that those two are competing technologies ie. networks/operators would have to choose one. But I'm still saying that those are complementary and you don't (wan't to?) understand why. I'll try to explain it more clearer:
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You can explain it until its transparent for all I care, the fact still remains that you are ignoring the underlying fundamental issue, which completely negates your argument, however, we shall leave that for below ...
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The data speeds in the network goes like this in Europe at the moment, WCDMA > EGPRS > GPRS.
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In reverse, but yes.
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Operator/network has the power to control it's own network, not the user. Operator can force the user to WCDMA, when available. When there's no WCDMA coverage, EGPRS comes in and when there's no EGPRS coverage, GPRS comes in. So, user always uses the fastest possible network available and has no control which one is used. Operator controls that. This is why I see those are not competing technologies.
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Hence why your argument is flawed. What you are not factoring in here is that the operators do not want to offer EDGE to their customers. It isn't a case of them not being able to to, they just do not want to do it.
I fully agree with the theory behind your point, that would be a wonderful short-term solution and I am sure the customers would love that. The majority of the networks, however, are not going to do that.
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And I don't see why it would make marketing to the end user difficult.
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The vast majority of customers could care less whether they are using WCDMA, CDMA 2000, EDGE or two tin cans strung together; as long as they can make and receive calls; send texts and download content they are happy. This is how the networks are able to offer 3G exclusively without EDGE. The actual selling of EDGE to the public wouldn't be all that difficult I imagine, but again it isn't a case of what is possible. The simple fact of the matter is once again the networks' unwillingness to implement EDGE.
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"Dear Customer, Welcome to use our 3G network! Our 3G coverage area at the moment is not covering the whole country yet. You still don't have to worry about the data speeds outside the 3G area where we have EDGE network available for you enabling fast data speeds. If you have anything to ask, please do not hesitate to contact our custormer service."
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Replace 'EDGE' with 'GPRS' and you have the information currently being given to customers by the networks.
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This is like saying that GSM networks has no short term future in Europe?! EDGE runs on GSM networks. WCDMA networks will have a very limited coverage in Europe for quite a while still. Only a handfull of countries in Europe will have full WCDMA coverage in some phase.
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Actually 3G covereage is expanding very rapidly, far faster than GSM did at the same comparative stage in its lifespan. The networks main priority at the moment is to expand their 3G covereage as fast as possible so as to capitalise on as much data revenue as possible. Then there is also the matter of government mandates, which set covereage targets for 3G networks, targets which many networks are already beating.
The 'handful' of countries that will have full 3G covereage first e.g. UK, Italy, France, Austria, Germany, etc are also SE's most important markets, further ostracising EDGE from SE's strategy.
To give you an example, 3 UK started up approximately two years ago and they already have 80% 3G covereage. This was a network built from scratch, not upgrading towers as the other networks have done, but building it from the ground up. This is just one example of the determination of these networks to implement 3G at all costs.
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You're speaking like England is Europe and will have full coverage at some phase. That's not the case.
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Ah the little island of Europe off the coast of continental Great Britain.
Seriously though, you are wrong. The whole point of implementing WCDMA is to replace GSM. There will be certain markets, which will have 3G covereage at current GSM levels first of course, but at some point the entire EU will be using the same system. The EU already includes most of Europe, with more countries likely to join within the next ten years, 3G is the future EU standard for mobile communications, of that there is little doubt. The whole reason GSM works so well in Europe is because of that very same fact, EU standardisation.
I'm not sire what it is you have against 3G, but you certainly underestimate its impact. 3G is replacing GSM in Europe, with some analysts talking of 2.5G network terminations by 2010. I believe that there has already been an announcement in Japan to the effect that 2.5G there will be finished by 2012.
The whole matter comes down to simple economics and politics. The networks want more money, both as profit and to pay for their 3G licenses. The politicians want standardisation across Europe. Both will get what they want.
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"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2005-05-12 14:53 ]
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2005-05-12 15:03 ] |
Super G
Joined: Mar 07, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: France
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China Mobile launched EDGE in Guangdong 
EDGE is conquering the whole world bit by bit!  |
goldenface
Joined: Dec 17, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Liverpool City Centre
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@Super G. There may be Edge all over China but I think I prefer 3G. There is a bigger push for 3G.
How does this look to you?
EDIT: Ericsson is also one of the companies participating. Imagine 100Mbps. 
[ This Message was edited by: goldenface on 2005-05-12 16:00 ] |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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From: UK
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@Super G
It's a shame it isn't conquering core SE markets or we might have seen some SE EDGE handsets by now!
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
whizkidd
Joined: May 14, 2004
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From: India
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http://www.3gnewsroom.com/3g_news/may_05/news_5844.shtml Just saw this news item on the same site..does it mean anything?? It says, almost 80% of britons dunno what 3g is! Hope i got the link right!
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goldenface
Joined: Dec 17, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Liverpool City Centre
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Thats scary
Does that make us all geeks? 
It doesn't surprise me at all. The average Joe Public would not know what the hell it was. |
dave_uk
Joined: Mar 06, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: London, UK
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I wonder how many know what EDGE is. I would think you are talking less than 0.1%.
I find it hard to believe that statistic, given the vast quantity of advertising from 3, Vodafone and Orange. We may be geeks, but are the general British public blind?!
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Posted: 2005-05-11 18:12
