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What's wrong with Esato? |
Oogamous
Joined: Aug 14, 2004
Posts: 401
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Well said masseur.
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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@masseur
Far from calling the moderators dictatorial I think you are probably well aware of my thoughts on the matter!
I agree with your points, but I would like to add that something can be done about it. Now I shall probably sound like an old fogey now, but I remember when Esato used to be about mobile phones and mostly SE phones at that! The odd thread about non-mobile related matters was fine and taken in a good light because we weren't swamped with them.
I would very much welcome a stronger stance from the moderators. I don't say that imply criticism of current policy, just that I think a stronger line is needed.
I ask myself where my friends from Esato are and I have to answer that many of them are gone; pachy, MixiN, fijbert, bacanito, MaThIbUs, Little Jon, scouser_75, Spondas, etc. (I just realised how much I miss those people as I read through my pms, especially pachy.) Why have those people left? I have asked many people this question and there seems to be a general consensus amongst many that they felt Esato had drifted away from what it was supposed to be i.e. a Sony Ericsson mobile phone forum. Many are put off by the peurile threads on politics or religion or endless petty arguments over the silliest of things.
Gone are the days of healthy debates where people didn't take offence if you said 'hello' to them! Where are the threads of old discussing new features without the heavy sarcasm and cynicism we see today? Where are the wonderful threads helping people with their problems that didn't turn into petty flame wars because someone ommitted a small (irrelevant) point? Where are the threads appreciating SE (it is still a SE fan forum isn't it?)? Where are the threads where one wasn't attacked and/or ridiculed for defending SE (again I thought this was a fan forum!)?
I say it's high time we had a return to the way things used to be!
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
masseur
Joined: Jan 03, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Sydney, London
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unfortunately, and without being specific, one or two of the names you mention are members who I would have put into some of the categories you list in your opening post so what is good for you is not neccessarily good for me or another member and therein lies the problem on Esato with so many members
attempting to make Esato something it isn't so that members who are fondly remembered will remain or return is not a realistic goal IMHO and I wonder how much different Esato would be today if the mentioned members were still here? I personally doubt there would be much that was different. People come, people go and thats the nature of a large forum such as this. One day you and I wil also not be here for whatever reasons we might have and if that reason is that Esato no longer suits our needs then that is as good a reason as any but not a reason to try to make Esato something it is not.
Of course I'd also like to see less antagonism, less agressive attitude, less posting just for the sake of it etc but these will never be eradicated. Its also worth mentioning that I receive very few complaints from members about other members suggesting that many issues are taken to PM etc to resolve between the members themselves
finally, the suggestion of moderators taking a stronger stance is fine but in what way? I have scratched my head long and hard trying to figure this one out. do we go around deleting posts that we consider not fitting for the thread for whatever reason and constantly sending PMs to such members? do we apply bans if our advice to such members is not heeded? we average 1500 posts a day and thats just in mobile related threads so this task would be quite enormous. I'd be interested to hear what specifically you might suggest in regards to taking a stronger stance?
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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I understand that some of those people I mentioned would quite likely fit into some of the categories I defined, but that wasn't my point. My point was that many people who have left Esato have left, not because they didn't like SE or Esato anymore, but because they felt that Esato had become something it wasn't supposed to be.
As for taking a stronge rline I have several suggestions, most of which are probably not going to be very popular, but then I don't really care. I have never been interested in popularity contests and I'm sure most people will know that I mean it when I say that I couldn't care less what people think of me. With that in mind I would suggest the following:
1.) More moderators! A forum this size needs more than the current moderator levels in my opinion. I understand that members have a part to play too, in reporting anything that breaks the rules, etc. However, this isn't really a substitute for a fully fledged moderator and I think Esato would be better served if there were more moderators. I am not going to bother justifying the fact that I am not intending this as a criticism of the current moderators because I am sick of people assuming that such things are. I would also like to point out before some smart Alec makes the charge, that I am not thinking of myself for a moderator position. I can think of a number of people who would make fine moderators and who I would nominate for the post before myself.
2.) This isn't a democracy! Lock, move, delete and archive threads that are bothersome and annoying to other members. If a thread is going offtopic warn the people involved and if they don't heed the advice lock it. Threads carry on too long like that.
3.) Delete the really silly threads that are locked, it just throws up more rubbish when one uses the search.
4.) An active campaign against serial posters who contribute bugger all to any discussion apart from gormless smilies and aggravating mono-syllabic senetences. Getting rid of the post count would probably be a good idea to help such a campaign. (Incidentally I have the 9th highest post count so I would be one of the one's 'losing out', if you can even say that with a straight face, from scrapping the post count.)
5.) In conjunction with point 1, individual forums could be given moderators who would be able to devote more time to each forum with 'super moderators' taking overall charge of moderating.
6.) Merge the 'Mobile Free Zone' and the 'General' forums, why have two forums full on non-mobile related threads when one would focus it all in one place?
7.) Allow people to create threads in the Rubbish forum, that way the real tosh might be created there more often than in other forums. This would hopefully free up the merged Mobile Free\General forum for relatively sensible non-mobile threads.
8.) Institute a trial period for politico-religious threads. I am fed up with seeing innane arguments over religion or politics; if people can discuss either subject without petty flaming then fine, if they can't then ban such discussions. It has worked well on another forum I am a member of, there is no reason it can't work here. As for people's right to freedom of speech, they can post about politics and religion on a dedicated forum; I know many people who would rather not have what is supposed to be a mobile phone forum burdened with this sort of thing. As I said, Esato isn't a democracy!
9.) An aggressive policy on merging threads that are basically dealing with the same thing, either that or faster redirects, locks and deletions of such threads.
10.) An active campaign to promote the naming of threads. I know that some of the moderators do this already, but if a member does name their thread in a way that is misleading (as we all know this happens frequently) then a moderator should just change it to something appropriate. Again this isn't a democracy.
11.) A user ranking system to be administered by the moderators. This would involve granting those members who have specialised knowledge a short title indicating their specialised field. This would then allow other members to quickly identify those people who may be best suited to help them should replies via threads not be forthcoming.
12.) The search should be modified to allow users to exclude the non-mobile forums (especially the Rubbish Forum!) from searches. I know you can find a needle in a haystack using the search feature masseur  , but many cannot. It would be useful to be able to search through all the mobile forums at once, or a combination thereof, without turning up results that include half the Rubbish forum!
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"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2005-05-22 08:38 ] |
whizkidd
Joined: May 14, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: India
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Scots, afaik we can already create a new thread in the garbage section....albeit on wap! I have created quite a few threads in the garbage section without a helping hand by the mods.  . Also i agree with you that there needs to be more moderators. I've seen quite a few forums where there are seperate mods for each section! It would only help current mods who are doing their best..but a forum as big as esato needs more people to keep things under control.
T230 >> T610 >> Ngage QD >> N73 >> N85 >> Omnia HD >> And countless other review units |
BobaFett
Joined: Jan 06, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Kamino (wish it would be Lund)
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Why more mods? Instead of it WE have to behave more constructive and wise according what and where we post imo. We arent kids...
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mustafabay
Joined: Sep 27, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Egypt
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I agree with the call for more mods, M-R has more mods and they have a lot less members. In addition to the fact they don't have as many non-mobile topics.
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Cycovision
Joined: Nov 30, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: England
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Whilst I agree to a great extent with Scots and Masseur, I think it's a subject that we have to be careful on. The question here is, 'just how serious do you want esato to be?'
I probably shouldn't name names here but I used to contibute heavily to Experts-Exchange. They are supposedly very intollerent of off-topic discussion, joke threads etc. which is the main reason why they have the points system for rewarding accepted answers. The site is almost purely a question and answer forum, not really a place for like-minded people to chat together and help others when asked.
What happens there? All that happens now is that the 'experts' spend more of their time slagging each other off and trying to be the cleverest person on there than they do actually suggesting answers to peoples' problems. They sneer at 'newbie' questions more than some people do on here, and very often people go away from there without any help at all, just a thread-full of insults. Very often indeed.
All I'm saying is that even if something was done to stop all of the silliness on Esato, it wouldn't necessarily make Esato a better place. I refuse to accept that newbie questions get overlooked because they're hidden in a sea of garbage, anyone who's been around esato for any length of time can scan the latest posts or esato bar pages and pick out the wheat from the chaff just by looking at the thread titles.
I think the the most effective course of action would be, as Scots has already suggested, to get rid of the post count and 'faded avatars' system. It's meaningless, and it definately contributes to garbage posting just to get the post count up.
I don't think that some members should be singled out in some way for having specialist knowledge though. That would be the first step on the path towards an Experts-Exchange style system and it really doesn't work, believe me. I was consistently in the 'top ten experts' list in two different sections on EE but it didn't make people try to 'find' me nor any of the others in the lists to get help more quickly. It just doesn't work like that.
So yes, let's try to cut out the crap a bit but please don't make Esato too serious or it could end up being like a mini Experts-Exchange, heaven forbid!
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'He who laughs last, laughs longest. Or didn't get the joke...'
[ This Message was edited by: Cycovision on 2005-05-22 12:15 ] |
Davo_169
Joined: Sep 06, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: perth/thredbo
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i think it all started when i joined  .....i rest my case
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*Jojo*
Joined: Oct 15, 2003
Posts: > 500
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I totally agree with Scotsbrite and Masseur here! Though my very SHORT and SIMPLE comment is that: With or without US all here, Esato will LIVE as it was before (unless Laffen will file for bankruptcy here, just like that of the 'dire strait' issue it had in 2002 or was it in 2003? ) Old ones will go as the newcomers will fill in the vacancy it left . . . . that's why there are the so-called, NEWBIES at Esato!
[addsig] |
Davo_169
Joined: Sep 06, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: perth/thredbo
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i found this interesting
Quote:
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On 2005-05-22 13:16:29, some random guy that isnt me wrote:
i am a little disturbed about this new thread putting esato members into categories....last time i checked that was called discrimination and should be subject to the full extent of the law.....next we will see the serial posters keeping the celebrity posters as slaves to work their land on minimal pay.....
the complainers will be fighting with the political fanatics over land rights and the know it all will create the largest political power in the world and search for posts of mass disruption in the jokers territory....
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Aalpha001
Joined: Mar 21, 2005
Posts: 20
From: South Africa
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Interesting...
The author of this thread also seems to have forgotten that he is himself not posting about mobile phones.
The funniest part of this thread is that those who are guilty of these accusations are here again. Pounding ferociously at their keyboards, and attempting to answer every post they could see with their eyes.
It's one of those things. |
satan89
Joined: Oct 26, 2004
Posts: 52
From: Hell
PM |
Alpha is right and i noticed it too. This thread does not have anything to do with phones. @ davo interesting quote , but i still think you wrote that stuff....
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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Quote:
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On 2005-05-22 14:14:21, Aalpha001 wrote:
Interesting...
The author of this thread also seems to have forgotten that he is himself not posting about mobile phones.
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No I have not forgotten. What exactly is your point? I haven't said people should not discuss non-mobile matters and discussing Esato itself is vitally important to the development of this forum.
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The funniest part of this thread is that those who are guilty of these accusations are here again. Pounding ferociously at their keyboards, and attempting to answer every post they could see with their eyes.
It's one of those things.
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Again you seem to misread the situation. There is nothing wrong with people posting a lot and taking part in debate and contributing to discussions; it is when people post just for the sake of it that it becomes annoying.
Perhaps you would like to offer something other than glib replies to this debate? Whenever a sensible thread, discussing an important and/or interesting issue arises there always seem to be people who feel the need to comment in a smug way, why is it? Why not just try and participate in a reasoned and civil manner?
@Cycovision
I agree fully with you in saying that Esato's community spirit should be protected and I am definitely not in favour of banning non-mobile related discussion. What I would like to see is non-mobile discussion limited to one forum (plus the Rubbish forum) and fewer serial posters or people posting utter tosh.
When I first joined this forum people used to actually have fun in the mobile related threads. We could incoporate a joke or two without the thread veering wildly off-topic and being locked. Far from that level of general good will there seems to be a pervasive air of cynicism and petty minded squabbling throughout Esato.
@Boba
Members are not substitutes for moderators.
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
OluYom
Joined: Oct 27, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Nigeria
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I agree with a number of suggestions Scots made. More mods would be fine.
Let's scrap the post count for sure, and no, no special points for reasons someone else has given.
Having said that, any reforms implemented are not going to erase even 50 percent of Esato's rubbish, as human beings can be very unpredictable. But maybe it'll achieve something.
We obviously left out a category of people: the wise-cracking smart-asses, who hardly ever contribute anything useful but have taken it upon themselves to take snipes at every other person's posts.
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[ This Message was edited by: AYA on 2005-05-22 14:45 ] | |
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Access the forum with a mobile phone via esato.mobi
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Posted: 2005-05-22 07:45
