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Dell developing Google Android handset |
@ftyk
Joined: Apr 20, 2008
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@aksd,
LJ?
is it short for latoya jackson, michael jackson's sister?
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aksd
Joined: Nov 11, 2005
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From: UK, India
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Is that supposed to be funny?
LJ = Linux Java or MotoMAGX, the OS thats on present generation Motorola phones, its based on LiMo which is the Linux Mobile FOundation, the SDK(Software Development Kit)for MotoMAGX should release next month and it looks great.
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WhyBe
Joined: Apr 02, 2008
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From: Ohio, USA
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A bunch of Android questions:
What will be the strengths of Android as opposed to WM? IOW, what features will Android bring to the market that WM may lack or doesn't do as well? Or is it merely a viable alternative to Microsoft?
What about the upcoming WM7 ? Would WM7 and Android be on par with each other as far as market and capabilities?
Another question is "Will Android handsets be targets for Google advertising?"
...and one more ? Does Android specify a required platform (chipset) or will Google have to manage the code translation to all of the various current and future chipsets?
[ This Message was edited by: WhyBe on 2008-05-19 05:24 ] |
aksd
Joined: Nov 11, 2005
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Excellent Question 
Firstly Android is basically a Linux core, BUT the applications installable on it are a type of Java, more similar to J2SE than J2ME, using googles own Virtual Machine known as Dalvik(google proprierty).
Regarding Android Vs WM
1. Out of the box supposedly Android does not support Native apps, but there have been people who have been able to write native apps for the Android platform in its current form, if theres no Native suppport it might be an issue for some people. From the way things are looking it should'nt be much of a problem, the Dalvik implementation looks powerful enough. What you could do with a WM phone you'd be able to do with Android as well.
2. Due to its linux core and open source nature it will be a lot more stable and you will have continuous updates fixing issues and adding new features. The support will be far better than for WM. The OS is far more moddable to make it more personal .
3. The UI is far less intimidating when compared to the current WM interface, it feels more end user oriented, how this compares with WM7 we cant say till final product of both platforms are released.
4. Android will be quite nice out of the box, with google talk clients with VOIP and the whole google family of apps preinstalled.
5. The developer base for Android will be quite large as Google have targeted both Linux and Java devs with this product which constitutes to quite a large majority of the developer world.
6. In my opinion the only area where WM will still trump Android are the Today screen plugins that WM offers.
7. Windows mobile offers a great deal of freedom to the end user from a modding and programming perspective, Android will actually be better than that, but offer the user experience offered by Symbian, with a lot more animations and transitions etc.. Therefore with Android you get the best of both worlds , but wrt to WM7, its really difficult to tell at this point.
8. And now for the best part, Android is designed with the MSM architecture in mind although it will run on other processors as well. So speaking on a very generic level you actually might be able to dual boot Android and WM on say the X1 or diamond, but other hardware components would need drivers and other such problems might arise. But as Android is supposed to be open source you might have developers working on drivers for the above models, people at xda-developers have got Android running on the TyTnII and Polaris.
Usually WM phones are bit over priced, while Android are targeting from low end to high end of the market. We should see if the same happens with WM(but to effectively target entry level smartphone buyers they need to improve product design and the UI). It also comes down to if you're a google user (the vast array of services offered by google), then Android would be a googd way to go. Personally I'd go android in the current market scenario, but I may change my mind when WM7 is announced.
As far as Android being a google advertising base, I think not, google have announced as far they strategy goes, Android is just another OS to them such as WM or Symbian(S60/UIQ)
Hope this answers your question.
Regards,
Akshay
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WhyBe
Joined: Apr 02, 2008
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From: Ohio, USA
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So how does Google profit from Android? Licensing?
If Android is on top of a virtual machine and Java apps sit on top of Android, isn't this an inherent inefficiency (just like Java is inherently inefficient compared to C++). IOW, games or CPU intensive apps would suffer or be scarce, wouldn't they? |
Residentevil
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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It is not about efficiency, customer satisfaction or functionality. It is who makes money 
Tough times don't last, tough people do!
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WhyBe
Joined: Apr 02, 2008
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I just want to see how it all turns out for Google. By it's open-source nature, it seems very messy. Device driver issues, UI inconsistencies, lack of powerful yet CPU efficient apps, etc. Seems great for techies, but, off-putting to non-technical users. I'm sure these issues will be addressed, but how? Since other platforms already have access to Google app API's (such as maps/search), what is Android's trump card? |
aksd
Joined: Nov 11, 2005
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Licensing from the short term perspective. But regarding long term benefits, its a fact that the future of computing is in handhelds, so this is google's first step into the world of handhelds.
Android is'nt on top of a VM, android is the name for the package, you have a Linux kernal with a Virtual Machine on top of it.
Of course the Dalvik Java on the Android is a bit slower than native, but it can be implemented well eg: Blackberry uses a complete Java application. Google have made certain modifications to the JVM to make it a lot more efficient than the usual JVM.
Video of Quake on an underclocked MSM7200 better than any WIndows phone out there. http://www.gsmarena.com/android_os_shows_new_tricks-news-446.php
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aksd
Joined: Nov 11, 2005
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On 2008-05-19 08:31:30, WhyBe wrote:
I just want to see how it all turns out for Google. By it's open-source nature, it seems very messy. Device driver issues, UI inconsistencies, lack of powerful yet CPU efficient apps, etc. Seems great for techies, but, off-putting to non-technical users. I'm sure these issues will be addressed, but how? Since other platforms already have access to Google app API's (such as maps/search), what is Android's trump card?
Are you talking about Android or WM? Inefficent apps and missing drivers sound more WM to me than Android . Android is actually more efficent from an end user point of view, more security and no resource leaks.
OpenSource, messy LOL, what a bloody joke ! What UI inconsistencies?, and I fail to understand how you came to that conclusion without seeing a final product. How do you solve driver issues? by writing the drivers, thats upto the manufacturer and not your problem or mine. But if I wanted to port Android for a device not running android then I'd have to program the drivers.
If Maps and search is all you use in Google thats fine, use something else then. There are quite a few users who would like VOIP via Gtalk, there gmail, google docs etc..
ANdroid is targeted more towards the end user as Symbian is, its meant to give an intuitive experience to the user, and the best part is the modders to can have their fun with it. So in reality its targeting a whole lot more users than any single platform till date. But that is to be seen if the sources are released or not.
BTW The reason Quake plays on a 300Mhz MSM7200 processor on Android is because:
1. It is less resource hungry than WM, a 400 Mhz processor of the smae MSM7200 cannot play quake at 30fps more like 9-15fps.
2. It ACTUALLY has the drivers working
[ This Message was edited by: aksd on 2008-05-19 09:11 ] |
WhyBe
Joined: Apr 02, 2008
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On 2008-05-19 10:02:11, aksd wrote:
Are you talking about Android or WM? Inefficent apps and missing drivers sound more WM to me than Android . Android is actually more efficent from an end user point of view, more security and no resource leaks.
OpenSource, messy LOL, what a bloody joke ! What UI inconsistencies?, and I fail to understand how you came to that conclusion without seeing a final product. How do you solve driver issues? by writing the drivers, thats upto the manufacturer and not your problem or mine. But if I wanted to port Android for a device not running android then I'd have to program the drivers.
If Maps and search is all you use in Google thats fine, use something else then. There are quite a few users who would like VOIP via Gtalk, there gmail, google docs etc..
ANdroid is targeted more towards the end user as Symbian is, its meant to give an intuitive experience to the user, and the best part is the modders to can have their fun with it. So in reality its targeting a whole lot more users than any single platform till date. But that is to be seen if the sources are released or not.
BTW The reason Quake plays on a 300Mhz MSM7200 processor on Android is because:
1. It is less resource hungry than WM, a 400 Mhz processor of the smae MSM7200 cannot play quake at 30fps more like 9-15fps.
2. It ACTUALLY has the drivers working
Maybe I'm not understanding what is meant by "open-source". When I hear open-source, it reminds me of 10 contractors trying to build the same house . Are we talking open (source) to all of the Google partners or open to all of the bedroom programmers? I was assuming the latter. Therefore, I was saying messy in terms of the OS code coming from so many different authors with their own ideas of how the UI should be. Is there going to be a governing body for "quality control?"
Aren't all of Google app API's available to other platforms? I was just wondering what sort of exclusive features would be on Android that would compel manufacturers to adopt it in their hardware.
By inefficient, I mean the whole Java to Android to Chipset translations that have to take place. Or is one of those steps compiled instead of translated? I mean, all else being equal, compiled code is always faster than translated code, right?
Thanks for answering,
sorry to be so lengthy |
aksd
Joined: Nov 11, 2005
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Those "bed room" programmers are the ones who'll be getting WM7 on the Xperia, if its possible. THose bedroom programmers are the ones releasing apps worth releasing not the manufacturer remember that. The source code is expected to be open to all.
Suppose HTC and Samsung release two Android phones, they're running a standardized OS by Google, but it can be altered with the usual apps etc.. or particular hardware optimization and software localizations, just like WM, BUT if theres an issue with the software say the P990 was android and the memeor leak was'nt being addressed by SE then you'd have a few hundrer devs working on fixing it, wheather you want to install the fix or not is upto you. Just like any other software. The "bed room" programmers over at xda-dev have actually made WM phones worth owning, there are fixes for SDHC on devices that do not have it, finger friendly apps and the works.
Once you buy your X1 trust me, its those bed room programmers you'll be thankful to.
Theres no such thing as translation, Java program is complied and then byte code is interpreted, but the Dalvik VM works a little different you can actually run multiple instances of the VM which is not possible on a JVM, read up on google about it or you can look http://www.dalvikvm.com/ and here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalvik_virtual_machine for a little info. The slight delay wont even be noticable, like a blackberry, nobody says a blackberry is slow now do they? And the entire OS is in Java
Like I said, Android is something special because it is opensource and because of its strange Java implementation. Its extremely resource efficent therefore you're going to have an extremely quick phone, the interface is quite friendly and theres going to be more choice for the end user, more choice is actually better for the market, it keeps the market on its toes, if any other manufacturer was on the same level as Nokia from a tech point of view we would'nt have this hardware lull that we've been having for the bast few months.
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WhyBe
Joined: Apr 02, 2008
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From: Ohio, USA
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...Suppose HTC and Samsung release two Android phones, they're running a standardized OS by Google, but it can be altered with the usual apps etc.. or particular hardware optimization and software localizations, just like WM, BUT if theres an issue with the software say the P990 was android and the memeor leak was'nt being addressed by SE then you'd have a few hundrer devs working on fixing it, wheather you want to install the fix or not is upto you.
This was where I was not understanding--of those "100 devs" working on the fix and assuming they are all taking different approaches to the fix, wouldn't there be a potential for "breaking" the system because a particular software may not be compatible with one of the particular fixes? Or would the 100 devs all agree on the best fix and only implement that 1 fix?
Also, I didn't mean bedroom programmer in a negative way. I just meant the guys that don't work for any of the participating corporations...the do-it-yourself-ers.
Thanks
[ This Message was edited by: WhyBe on 2008-05-19 15:50 ] |
aksd
Joined: Nov 11, 2005
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They'd all work together through Mailing lists, you can check out the Android Mailing list as an example. Or sometimes 1 person fixes it and another builds up on it so on....but the reason for making things opensource is to have more developers working on it, its always benefical to have several perspectives in solving a problem.
Sometimes, those bedroom programmers are secretly working for the parent company
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WhyBe
Joined: Apr 02, 2008
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From: Ohio, USA
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Gotcha, thanks. |
@ftyk
Joined: Apr 20, 2008
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@aksd,
i was unaware that you do not like to smile.
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Posted: 2008-05-19 04:16
