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SE and Nokia neck and neck in reliability |
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Australia
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I'm not actually relying on either survey. I believe SE handsets are reliable, based on my own experience and that of many friends and associates.
However I accept both survey's general findings, but don't accept that either are entitled to claim to have fully exposed the problems.
I posted this thread a little tongue in cheek, I admit  because I thought it fair to show another interpretation, not necessarily because I think it is more right than the which survey. (Mib, you generalised the which survey to SE with your thread title,  ) And from what I understand the Connect survey is reader reported faults also, so I'm guessing that the 38 models of phone is the total number of different model phones recorded by all participants of the survey. Models reported in statistically irrelevant numbers may have been exluded form the figure of 38.
Once I gave my handset to a friend and he deleted two video clips I'd taken because he kept pressing "delete" to try and get to the next clip. WTF? The button said "delete", is that not good enough for someone to avoid deleting stuff accidently? I'm careful now who I hand my phone to, but I'm not gonna jump on the kick SE bandwagon just because the interface didn't prevent the loss of my video footage. At some point users have to accept their inadequacies and move on.
Likewise with the software issue. Sure it's a pain if you are unlucky and have to update your phone a day after buying it, but SE is by no means alone in this. It hapens to many brands of phone. The fact that the phone can be repaired with software and doesn't need a lengthy wait for a replacement, means to me that the phone is more reliable than one for which you need to wait for a replacement. Especially when the update has turned the phone into a virtual linux server - it never crashes (in my case, a K750 crashing on the first day of ownership, fixed with a SEUS update to R1L). In all my experience with SE phones it's the only time I've had to "repair" an SE phone.
That to me is reliability.
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mib1800
Joined: Mar 18, 2004
Posts: > 500
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max_wedge:
Quote:
| I believe SE handsets are reliable, based on my own experience and that of many friends and associates. |
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You know your (and my) experience dont have any significance in any statistics. We are dealing with averages and variances here (i.e. some data will be fall outside the bell curve). Like I told scotsboyuk, the statistics is valid only within the premise of the data that was collected. If the data collected is "general" in nature then the statistics show performance in generality (or vice versa). Once you try to change the premise, the statistics is no longer valid.
btw: I (plus my family/friends) have used many Nokia phones (mostly smartphones) and some Samsung and I/we did not need to "repair" them in any way (not even a phone reset). Does this count as excellent reliability? Well, I wont go as far as that.
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numb
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
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Well, in Norway several of the largest store chains are now refusing to sell nokia phones because of to many problems with quality.
The second largest mobile seller Expert pulished its repair statisticks to a consumer television show called FBI
According to their repairstatisticks every third sold Nokia phone comes back for repair which is a significantly larger fault share than any other mobile brand.
In a number of Expert stores during a specific period there were sold 20.250 nokia units, and 11.406 units of Siemens, Sony Ericsson and Motorola.
Of those 20.250 sold nokia units, 7.330 were returned for repair within 6 months.
Of the 11.406 sold units from other brands only a total of 1.047 units were returned for repair in the same 6 months period.
Several other major mobile dealers in norway confirm these problems.
I have absolutely no use for stupid surveys like the which survey that basically says nothing concrete about faults and repairs, but are only based on user opinions and includes operator/network errors.
I like numbers, real numbers, and just like I have experienced from our own servicecentre, the numbers speak their own clear language.
[ This Message was edited by: numb on 2005-09-10 13:57 ] |
mib1800
Joined: Mar 18, 2004
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@numb:
Could you provide some links to some websites which may have carried this piece of news? This should be significant news since the biggest stores in Noway refused to sell Nokia because reliability problem.
btw: if you google the Which? survey, many links are found (i.e. many sites carried the news).
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numb
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
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It was broadcasted in Norwegian television, in the consumershow called FBI and mentioned in Norwegian and atleast one Danish newspapers (something called Jyllandsposten).
I havent searched for websites with this info |
slattery69
Joined: Jan 03, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: north east england
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agian the problem from the info numb has posted is that the resluts dont show why the phones went in for repair, again it could be user error, firmware problems operator problems etc
so te results are no more reliable than the which survey. i personally believe there isnt much between the 5 or 6 main players even though personal experience has shown me se to be less reliable. i still think a lot of that was just luck or lack of it |
numb
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
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No, these were phone errors, not user or network errors, thats why the dealers were tired of Nokia |
slattery69
Joined: Jan 03, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: north east england
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what i dont get and its the same with the which results is that most of se and nokias phones are made at a few factories then shipped round the world.
i would image that the phones that are in the norway results would the same phones used in the which survey ie from the same factory and yet these problems dont seem to manifest in other parts of the world. for example why are nokia so poor according to your survey yet in the uk only a few hundred miles away the results are the opposite
that indicates to me that both surveys are fundementally incorrect |
Kryptik
Joined: Jun 24, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: Port Elizabeth, S.Africa
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I agree that a phone's reliability is limited only to the usage it's subjected to. Somebody owning a 5140 and expecting 6600 capabilities from it would ultimately find fault with the phone, just as somebody owning a K750 and only using it for calls would find it utterly reliable... Different strokes...
This message was posted from a Nokia |
numb
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: > 500
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Quote:
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On 2005-09-10 19:16:30, slattery69 wrote:
what i dont get and its the same with the which results is that most of se and nokias phones are made at a few factories then shipped round the world.
i would image that the phones that are in the norway results would the same phones used in the which survey ie from the same factory and yet these problems dont seem to manifest in other parts of the world. for example why are nokia so poor according to your survey yet in the uk only a few hundred miles away the results are the opposite
that indicates to me that both surveys are fundementally incorrect
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No, the which survey has nothing do with any concrete repair cases, its not a statistical from any servicentre of the number of phones of different brands that needed repair. You cannot compare the Which survey to service centre repair statistics
The which survey is a survey asking a number of users, "have you ever had any problems with your mobile phone"
It doesnt ask if the problem was related to hardware that needed repair, or related to difficulty in using the phone, or related to any kind of networkerrors. Its as waque as can be, and only indicates that a great number of people find using a mobile phone to be "troublesome"
Theoretically it could mean only user errors, or it could mean only network errors or it could mean only hardware errors. Or any combination of above. It doesnt deal in specific documented repair numbers from any repaircentres, it doesnt take into account that some people cant distinguise what type of problem they are having, it doesnt take into account that some people just dont know how to use the technology. The which survey is as useless as surveys can be. It could have gone either way or any way.
The numbers from Norway are not a user survey with all the flaws of these types of investigations, these are actual numbers taken from their servicecentres repairstatistics of which phones needed to be taken into the servicecentre for repair. It doesnt deal with userfeelings, it doesnt include all those where the problem related to user error or network error because these cases dont make it to the actual workshop for repair. These cases should be routed out at the servicedesk.
Theres nothing to say that similar numbers doesnt exist in other places, usually these servicecentre statistics are just not public information. The manufactures are not interested in these numbers going public and will make contracts with servicecentres preventing them to publicise such info.
In the rescent incident in Norway a very large mobile distributor simply just got tired of the problems and publicised their numbers in this consumer televison show.
[ This Message was edited by: numb on 2005-09-10 19:50 ] |
slattery69
Joined: Jan 03, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: north east england
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well according to the norway report 1 in 3 nokias were in need of repair
that would be a figure very hard to cover up around europe and i assume norway gets the same nokias that the uk france etc gets unless the people at nokia really dislike norway and wish to piss its people off |
Kryptik
Joined: Jun 24, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: Port Elizabeth, S.Africa
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;-) Must be a conspiracy against Norway then... 33% sounds rather excessive.
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numb
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
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Well Finns and Norwegians generally dont like eachother, so whos to say, perhaps the Finnish Nokia do dump all their poor samples in Norway - hehehehe
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max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
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From: Australia
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I posted this thread because I felt mib was using the which survey to back up his own experience or perception of SE phones, whereas my experience was different so I searched for a survey that matched my experience. I didn't do this to prove anything other than the fact that no one need go around claiming SE are any more unreliable than any other phone.
I also feel that many people (not you mib, atleast you are prepared to argue the point, I respect that, but many other posters don't even bother) are claiming SE's are a piece of shit on the basis of one phone they have had a problem with plus every negative comment they can find about that phone. For example their phone needs an update and they can't get SEUS working (probably due to a virus/malware infected windows system - get AVG antivirus and Spybot Search and Destroy guys - they work), so they jump on the forums and read every single bad report about SE phones but don't read any of the good reports.
So they then get on the forums and say "in my experience" SE phones are crash monkeys. Whereas it seems to me that everytime someone on a forums says "firmware version such and such crashes all the time" about ten people post follow-up comments to the affect "I have that version and my phone don't crash dude". And generally peeps won't jump on a forum to report good things, they post when they are pissed at something, so forum reports are going to be skewed towards negative experiences in the most part.
I am fed up to be honest. If I have played with hundreds of phones in the last two years, and haven't found any significant failure rate with SE phones, then I think that my anecdotal evidence is strong enough that it's gonna take more than one or two "reader surveys" to make me think any different.
I know my experience isn't proof, but it is a very good basis for the hypothesis that SE phones are reliable.
Numb's report IS more relevant because it involves repair centre statistics (and a bigger sample than both the which and connect surveys). Numb, it is truly scary if Nokia are that bad. If it's true, I wouldn't be surprised that the reason they do so well in the reader surveys, is due to the average Nokia user being more interested in the status value of owning a Nokia phone, and therefore they aren't overly critical of phone problems since they don't want to tarnish the cool factor! They don't notice little problems, or think of it as insignificant, where more demanding SE users will complain about the same problem  (ducks flaming) (okay now I'm just stirring the pot!!)
But Nokia are very definitely perceived as cool by young people, and many of my younger friends have been surprised when they have played with my SE phones because they just assumed Nokia had it all. They say things like "WOW I didn't know SE phones could do all that!" because all they have experience of are Nokia bricks. But yet they have assumed that Nokia are so good that their phone is better than mine. I know quite a few 18-25 year olds who have swapped from being diehard Nokia lovers, to SE once seeing my K700 or K750.
SE are becoming the "new Nokia"! (ducks more flaming - now I'm just being a prick for the sake of it!!)
Look, I've made some jokes here (flame your heart's out ), but really all I am trying to do is offer a legitimate alternative perspective.
Numb's report is a concern, but I certainly wouldn't have thought that from my experience. I myself have found Nokia phones to be reliable. I just don't think SE phones are any less reliable. That is the only point I'm trying to make (jokes aside).
[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2005-09-11 03:19 ] |
Muga
Joined: Sep 09, 2005
Posts: 33
From: Jamaica
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Yes all of wat ur saying is true. Take for instance modles like t2*0/t3*0/t68i. There all g8 phns bt persons jus tink tht b/c thy dnt built in camera an those tings there no gud! I av my t310 for two years nw n the only prob i av wit it is tht the joystick is begining to stick bt still its a g8 phn.
This message was posted from a T310 |
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Posted: 2005-09-10 07:36
