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W800i - Napster and iTunes Support? |
sapporobaby
Joined: Sep 14, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Finland. Kuwait maybe :)
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Sapporobaby. I very much hope that you aren't implying that there is insanity in the other posts. Can we keep the posting on a civil level please.
Simon
Just poking a stick.
Anyway, you are correct. iTunes is not for you unless you want to use it to encode your music. You can use the Lossless encoder. It makes smaller than .wav files but larger than a standard .mp3 or .aac. Maybe I am wrong but no one I know that has the choice would choose .wma as a codec for encoding due to the less than superior sound quality when compared to .mp3 and .aac. Soooo, if space is a premium your best bet would be to encode with .aac (better sound quality at a smaller file size), and then use the supplied softare that came with the phone to transfer them to the phone. You might also consider trans-coding your files to .acc as the .mp3 standard is old and on the way out anyway.
P.S. There is one more time consuming and pain in the but way to do things. Get Music Match. Trans-code from everything into .wav, then trans-code into .acc and thus have one final library.
_________________
"Einstein was right. Einstein was probably one of them" - Close Encounters of the Third Kind
*edited on a Mac PowerBook, of course. Mac: There is no substitute*
[ This Message was edited by: sapporobaby on 2005-08-24 18:41 ] | |
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siwatkins
Joined: Aug 19, 2005
Posts: 31
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Sapporobaby,
WMA Lossless is what my library is encoded in, and there are no quality issues, as there is no lossy compression - it is as per the source. It suits me because I use Windows Media Connect to stream to a Roku Soundbridge located with my Hi-Fi, and WMA is the best supported lossless format on that platform. I actually like Windows Media Player 10 very much, and the library capabilities are excellent, and with Windows Media Connect, everything just works. Just my opinion, but the library is also much nicer and better implemented than the iTunes library (which insists on me converting from WMA  )
My library is too large to import into a duplicate iTunes library as well, and everytime I ripped a CD to WMA Lossless for the other reasons I mentioned, I'd have to do the same in iTunes for the phone. Not going to happen
The best I've found so far, is to use Winamp for the phone. I can keep my master library in WMA, and continue to use Windows Media Player/Windows Media Connect for the Roku and the hifi. When I want to put files on the phone, I just use the Transcode plug in within Winamp, and tell it to transcode to the phone at the bitrate and format I choose. It maintains folder structures, doesn't require me to re-rip my library, and in fact, does all that I want, bar offer the Sync functionality that WMP would offer if the phone supported WMA. The only drawback is that I have to use Winamp, rather than WMP. It would be nicer to use WMP for everything, but c'est la vie.
So, I'm almost there really. The other program worth watching, is MediaMonkey. I've received an email from the developers, that it will offer full transcoding in the next release, which is about to go into beta. Until then, I guess I'll stick with my Winamp solution which is by far the slickest solution I've found.
Cheers,
Simon
[ This Message was edited by: siwatkins on 2005-08-24 20:14 ] |
sapporobaby
Joined: Sep 14, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Finland. Kuwait maybe :)
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@siwatkins,
You did not mention the Soundbridge. Makes sense now. I use a Airport Express to run to my Rotel pre-amp via fiber. I can see you problem much clearer now. Yes, the lossless codec is right for you while the phone requires a different solution.
iTunes, well, it sucks as a library. Bottom line but I think this is because of the iPod. It mimics the menu structure so, keep it simple. If you had a Mac, you could write a script to select some songs, transcode them, then delete them after they were uploaded to your phone.
*edited on a Mac of course. Mac: There is no substitute*
N82(YES), iPhone 3G, Shure es530, Nikon D300, more stuff. No more SE stuff, why am I still here? |
siwatkins
Joined: Aug 19, 2005
Posts: 31
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Yeah, I the Roku is an important part of the equation, so I should have mentioned that previously
You mentioned scripting - I could I guess, use Windows Scripting Host to do something similar, but given my current laziness, I'll stick to Winamp for getting tunes to the phone for now lol
Cheers for your input,
Simon |
sapporobaby
Joined: Sep 14, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Finland. Kuwait maybe :)
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Quote:
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On 2005-08-24 21:49:19, siwatkins wrote:
Yeah, I the Roku is an important part of the equation, so I should have mentioned that previously
You mentioned scripting - I could I guess, use Windows Scripting Host to do something similar, but given my current laziness, I'll stick to Winamp for getting tunes to the phone for now lol
Cheers for your input,
Simon
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Get a Mac and just download a script that someone already has written.
*edited on a Mac of course. Mac: There is no substitute*
N82(YES), iPhone 3G, Shure es530, Nikon D300, more stuff. No more SE stuff, why am I still here? |
Gigs
Joined: Jan 19, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: The planet Snibertron!
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@simon:
It kinda helps now you've described your situation as well as the original complaint.. 
Since you have your library encoded, itunes won't help. I keep my music library quite seperate however, especially since its scattered across 4 odd drives at the moment. (it's also due to be completely re-encoded again from my cd's since some of the mp3s are shocking now hehe)
If you're encoding specifically for the phone then its VERY simple to use itunes to encode and save direct to the memory stick. (All you do is change the itunes music folder to the Memorystick (removable drive)\MP3 folder and then encode until its full.
This doesn't negate the fact that it makes it blisteringly simple to put the music directly onto the phone though as the thread seemed to imply it was hard. (The same could also be done with Music Match)
Again this is for PC users, I believe mac users also have to script it. Makes you wonder why its so easy on a PC  
Unfortunately in your case you're sunk until  decides if they'll support WMA or not.
Of course WMP doesn't help the fact that it encodes everything to WMA. The amount of friends I've had that have encoded music expecting it to be in MP3 (because thats what they hear the most about and think that when you rip music thats what it becomes) and have had to change it, well its alot.
If there was a piece of software that centrally managed everyones music programs, then this would all be easy I'd hazzard. |
sapporobaby
Joined: Sep 14, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Finland. Kuwait maybe :)
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Quote:
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On 2005-08-25 00:11:45, Gigs wrote:
Again this is for PC users, I believe mac users also have to script it. Makes you wonder why its so easy on a PC
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I thought the only thing easy on a PC was to get viruses and the amount of daily crashes.
I do not think SE will support .wma. Does not support their biz model. Sony wants to get their offering off the ground and MS is a competitor. Can not see it happening anytime soon. I could be wrong. Also, as .mp3 is on the way out, I went ahead and made the switch to .aac as this looks it will be the audio standard in the future. More and more devices are moving to .aac. Having an iPod was also a reason.
*edited on a Mac of course. Mac: There is no substitute*
N82(YES), iPhone 3G, Shure es530, Nikon D300, more stuff. No more SE stuff, why am I still here? |
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Australia
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sapporobaby, sorry buddy but the windows machines I setup, that have up to date virus scanners, adware protection etc, don't crash everyday and don't get viruses. Both My windows 2000 machine and XP machines haven't been shutdown in atleast 3 months. I don't know when any of them last crashed, it was so long ago.
Last night I was working on a friends ibook, it had an exception error three times! Later, I had to restart it to install a PRINT DRIVER for gawd's sake 
The fault with any computer crashing is with the user or the machine setup (or faulty hardware of course), not with the os in my view (and I've maintained 200 windows machine corporate networks for years where crashing everday is simply not an option).
Simon, I see now where you are coming from. You are sorta locked into wma. But if you prefer it that's a good thing; variety is the spice of life!
The inconvenience of proprietary systems is what gets me, and that's why I have never considered an ipod, and have kept to mp3, and now aac. AAC is a very good codec, better than MP3, and thousand times better than ATRAC. (I've given up on my MD player - never should have bought it, but then again it was before mp3 players)
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MINDSCRIBE
Joined: Jun 26, 2004
Posts: 37
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@MAX_wedge 1. MP3 & AAC do not sound better than the latest versions of ATRAC! ATRACs problems are to with DRM, which you should know if you have ever used a mini disc! 2. SE are avoiding the pitfalls that sony fell into with its digital audio players, by ensuring the W800i is DRM free! That means no WMA, Apple iTunes and the like, thank god!!
This message was posted from a K700i |
sapporobaby
Joined: Sep 14, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Finland. Kuwait maybe :)
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Quote:
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On 2005-08-25 04:16:58, max_wedge wrote:
sapporobaby, sorry buddy but the windows machines I setup, that have up to date virus scanners, adware protection etc, don't crash everyday and don't get viruses. Both My windows 2000 machine and XP machines haven't been shutdown in atleast 3 months. I don't know when any of them last crashed, it was so long ago.
Last night I was working on a friends ibook, it had an exception error three times! Later, I had to restart it to install a PRINT DRIVER for gawd's sake
The fault with any computer crashing is with the user or the machine setup (or faulty hardware of course), not with the os in my view (and I've maintained 200 windows machine corporate networks for years where crashing everday is simply not an option).
Simon, I see now where you are coming from. You are sorta locked into wma. But if you prefer it that's a good thing; variety is the spice of life!
The inconvenience of proprietary systems is what gets me, and that's why I have never considered an ipod, and have kept to mp3, and now aac. AAC is a very good codec, better than MP3, and thousand times better than ATRAC. (I've given up on my MD player - never should have bought it, but then again it was before mp3 players)
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@Max
What is a virus scanner? We Mac guys don't need that. To install ANYTHING on a Mac, you have to be "root". Viruses can't install unless I install them myself. I did for fun, finally turn on the firewall.
You are wrong about the iPod though. iPod's can plan back anything, even .wma as long as they are not DRM'd .wma files. You must be talking about an older version of iTunes. The new version supports everything (forgot, not Real, but this is crap anyway). I have a friend that has his entire library in .mp3 and another using lossless and they are quite happy. I have a mix of .aac and .mp3.
*edited on a Mac of course. Mac: There is no substitute*
N82(YES), iPhone 3G, Shure es530, Nikon D300, more stuff. No more SE stuff, why am I still here? |
sapporobaby
Joined: Sep 14, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Finland. Kuwait maybe :)
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Quote:
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On 2005-08-25 05:04:23, MINDSCRIBE wrote:
@MAX_wedge 1. MP3 & AAC do not sound better than the latest versions of ATRAC! ATRACs problems are to with DRM, which you should know if you have ever used a mini disc! 2. SE are avoiding the pitfalls that sony fell into with its digital audio players, by ensuring the W800i is DRM free! That means no WMA, Apple iTunes and the like, thank god!!
This message was posted from a K700i
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@Mindscribe,
Could you post some info on ATRAC sounding better, because according to the white paper, it can not simply because it throws away music above 20K hz and below 20 hz. I am not aware of .mp3 and .aac doing this. This is one of the major reasons why ATRAC was attacked when it first came out and continued to now. As for you berating iTunes, it is nothing more than a library. It does not do any actual encoding as this is done through Quicktime, or did I misunderstand?
*edited on a Mac of course. Mac: There is no substitute*
N82(YES), iPhone 3G, Shure es530, Nikon D300, more stuff. No more SE stuff, why am I still here? |
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Australia
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sapporobaby, your points about viruses and mac are valid to an extent, but while there are advantages in the mac os's in terms of immunity to threats, it's partly due to exposure - mac's with much smaller market share are not a target. As mac's become more popular, they will become a big target for virus writers and weaknesses will be discovered. Currently viruses are mostly written for the windows platform, so of course mac will be immune. If every user accepts the need for virus software and firewalls (of which there are many good free options) then windows is as safe as a mac.
Wth XP SP2, with default firewall and popup blocking standard, has actually made a huge difference to the number of screwed over virus/malware ridden home user machines out there. Microsoft is responding, slowly, to these issues. I believe the next step they will take, is to create a default user account that functions similar to Mac in user mode. But in pure technical terms, viruses and poorly written software and drivers aside, windows is very stable compared to Win9x and many of the myths regarding mac versus windows no longer apply.
But BACK TO TOPIC , I agree with you about ATRAC. In fact in recent releases of ATRAC, the compression has been further increased (as a means of increasing the transfer speed to NetMD recorders), and they do this by throwing away increasingly more of the sound signal deemed "invisible" to the human ear. Trouble is, not all of us fit into the lowest common demoninator of hearing ability that ATRAC developers code for to get that increase in transfer speed. To me, ATRAC sounds clinical, lifeless, and has very strange compression artifacts compared to mp3 or aac, especially in complex music pieces. Even SP ATRAC (let alone MDLP) sounds dead. I actually believe the atrac engineers are getting it very wrong in their analysis of what sounds the human ear actually pick up. In doing so they seem to have eliminated cross frequencies that make the music so deep and involved. I don't like it.
I also don't understand peeps problem with itunes, but I myself prefer dbpoweramp encoding for it's better compression. Once I get 2GB ms duo pro, I guess I won't be so worried about that! And it is a great way to organise music.
Oh and I do realise ipod can run normal mp3's etc, I was more getting at the way they push drm through the online music store, it leaves me feeling negative about it. That is unfair I admit, but I guess I feel the ipod offers nothing better than any equivalent but cheaper third party hard disk player. For example, peeps around here who complain that they can't get their m4p's onto W800 .
[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2005-08-25 11:37 ] |
MINDSCRIBE
Joined: Jun 26, 2004
Posts: 37
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You guys are speaking of iTunes the program on your computers, while i am on about Apple iTunes the download service which sells digital rights management(DRM) protected music files in the AAC format which only iPod owners can use. Any company wishing to use iTunes with their digital player would have to buy into Apples DRM technology, if SE had done this with the W800i, they would have made the phone less attractive to many customers. ATRAC, MP3, AAC, WMA, all sound similar at high bit rates.
This message was posted from a K700i |
sapporobaby
Joined: Sep 14, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Finland. Kuwait maybe :)
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Quote:
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On 2005-08-25 16:03:56, MINDSCRIBE wrote:
You guys are speaking of iTunes the program on your computers, while i am on about Apple iTunes the download service which sells digital rights management(DRM) protected music files in the AAC format which only iPod owners can use. Any company wishing to use iTunes with their digital player would have to buy into Apples DRM technology, if SE had done this with the W800i, they would have made the phone less attractive to many customers. ATRAC, MP3, AAC, WMA, all sound similar at high bit rates.
This message was posted from a K700i
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Thanks for the clarification but I still disagree with you about ATRAC. How can music sound the same when ATRAC throws away sub and infra-sonic music? I have not seen this as sounding better in practice. Could you provide documentation or is this your personal opinion?
*edited on a Mac of course. Mac: There is no substitute*
N82(YES), iPhone 3G, Shure es530, Nikon D300, more stuff. No more SE stuff, why am I still here? |
slattery69
Joined: Jan 03, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: north east england
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i did some testing not so long ago as i was always against mp3 players as i thought they just couldnt cut the mustard against my hifi set up (which they cant).
but i decided that the gym s music was becoming to much to bare so decieded to bite the bullet and get an mp3 player.
i did test with most of the major brands and sound formats including mini discs aac mp3 etc
what i found was acc was by for the most reveling musically of all the compression systems and if you used the apple lossless it was quite superb.
so i bought an ipod and could nt be happier, i convert everything to aac wouldnt dream of using most of the the other formats as they just dont seem to convey the music properly
maybe im been a bit snobby but i guess its what your use to. its a pain for original poster as he has his collection in wma format ,but its really only 2 chooses youve got. buy a compatible player or reconvert from the cds to aac for your w800/k750 | |
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Posted: 2005-08-24 19:37
