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No edge support in SE phones |
Super G
Joined: Mar 07, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: France
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On 2005-05-11 11:49:37, goldenface wrote:
@Orange. UMTS/WCDMA is 4 times faster than EDGE, so in my eyes it is far superior.
So if  wants to commit to 3G in Europe then good on them. They are showing they want to lead the way, which can't be a bad thing.
Also, although Edge can utilise existing base stations it DOES cost money in implement. You cant just give people handsets and the Edge speeds are already there. It has to be inplemented, managed and the handsets have to be promoted.
This is extra finance spent implementing something which is already inferior to 3G in terms of what the end user receives. Slower speeds.
Yes we all know 3G coverage is still patchy, just like GSM coverage was a nearly decade ago. But at the end of the day the consumer will receive better quality, quicker download/upload speeds giving rise to more powerful and a wider array of services and applications and more money for the operators.
The end results of this great push for 3G should be well worth the wait. 
I understand what you are saying about the two technologies being complimentary, but from a politcal point of view I can see why would want to commit to 3G.
Whether this is right or wrong is not for us to judge as we do not now what their exact strategy is.
[ This Message was edited by: goldenface on 2005-05-11 11:04 ]
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4 times faster?
Current 3G dual mode handsets have maximum speed of 384kbps.
With my 9300 EDGE handset (class 10) I get a maximum speed of 236kbps. | |
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goldenface
Joined: Dec 17, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Liverpool City Centre
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@Super G 3G technology allows the transmission of data well above 2Mbps.
Ericsson has already introduced enhancements to its standard that will enable up to 10Mbps to be transmitted.
In fact this is already used by some mobile users in Japan where 3.5G is on the verge of being rolled out and 12Mpbs upgrades are being prepared. |
orange
Joined: Mar 13, 2002
Posts: 397
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On 2005-05-11 11:49:37, goldenface wrote:
@Orange. UMTS/WCDMA is 4 times faster than EDGE, so in my eyes it is far superior.
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You should've read my post more carefully. I said, if device/operator/network have BOTH EDGE and WCDMA, is it less superior than device/operator/network ONLY with WCDMA? |
goldenface
Joined: Dec 17, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Liverpool City Centre
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On 2005-05-11 13:19:03, orange wrote:
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On 2005-05-11 11:49:37, goldenface wrote:
@Orange. UMTS/WCDMA is 4 times faster than EDGE, so in my eyes it is far superior.
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You should've read my post more carefully. I said, if device/operator/network have BOTH EDGE and WCDMA, is it less superior than device/operator/network ONLY with WCDMA?
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I did. I know what you said. But you said that in response to:
On 2005-05-10 16:31, goldenface wrote:
As has already been posted, SE is commited to 3G because it is superior to Edge and that is where it predicts its future lays.
I was simply stating that there may be political reasons why is not going down the edge road in Europe and that it may be because it views 3G as a superior technology.
[ This Message was edited by: goldenface on 2005-05-11 13:11 ] |
Super G
Joined: Mar 07, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: France
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On 2005-05-11 12:58:58, goldenface wrote:
@Super G 3G technology allows the transmission of data well above 2Mbps.
Ericsson has already introduced enhancements to its standard that will enable up to 10Mbps to be transmitted.
In fact this is already used by some mobile users in Japan where 3.5G is on the verge of being rolled out and 12Mpbs upgrades are being prepared.
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I'm not arguing 3G allows higher data rates than EDGE. That's a fact
Release 99 UMTS is supposed to reach up to 2Mbps, in theory. But Release 99 products so far only support up to 384kbps.
HS[D/U]PA will make this 2Mbps upper bound better.
As to 3.9G.... not quite there yet.
Also, EDGE is being evolved further at the moment for good reasons: see e.g. http://www.nokia.com/nokia/0,,63950,00.html and find the EDGE evolution white paper from there
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goldenface
Joined: Dec 17, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Liverpool City Centre
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Well if this great push for 3G is successful in Euroland then there is no reason why we cannot enjoy the 2.4Mbps flat rate some KDDI subscribers can enjoy in Japan.
This handset is called the W21SA and sold as 3.5G handset and was released last year. (themarques has one )
Currently most networks there are being upgraded to the 2-10Mbps range which should pave the way for some pretty amazing handsets which hopefully we will see the likes here.
[ This Message was edited by: goldenface on 2005-05-11 14:55 ] |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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@orange
Since you appear to have misread AYA's comments when hurling an insult at me I shall refrian from my normal course of action in such circumstances. Perhaps you might like to read others' posts a little more carefully before insulting people?
@all
This thread is going around in circles with the same people bemoaning SE's lack of EDGE implementation.
The matter is really very very simple; SE do not want to implement EDGE in their handsets. That is how simple the matter is. If you don't like it, tough. Either send complaints to SE in the hope that they will change their policy or buy from another manufacturer who meets your needs.
Whether you like it or not, Europe and Japan are more important to SE than India, China or any other market on the face of the planet. SE make most of their sales in Europe and Japan, it is simple economics.
SE see 3G as being the future in Europe and Japan as well as other markets, they want to follow that route, not EDGE. At the end of the day it is basically tough chips if you want an EDGE enabled handset from SE, because they have relatively few of them on offer.
EDGE is too much of a competing standard for the European networks. EDGE would allow relatively fast data speeds, which is the main selling point of 3G. The networks have paid tens of billions of pounds for their 3G licences, they are not going to sit around and let them collect dust on the shelf whilst everyone uses EDGE. What would there be to differentiate between EDGE and 3G, in practical terms, for customers? Video calling? Faster data rates? Video calling has already proved to be something of a lame duck in that it hasn't taken off to the extent the networks hoped for yet. Equally how fast do most customers need their mobile data connections to be? The majority of customers don't even have any real use for mobile data other than to download ringtones etc, which would be handled quite well by EDGE.
If EDGE were made cheaper than 3G then this lack of substantial difference would, in effect, kill 3G as a viable technology for the networks. If 3G were made cheaper then EDGE would be killed off as a viable technology for the networks. If they were made the same price then EDGE would suffer because the few benefits that 3G does have over EDGE at this stage would probably be heavily promoted by the networks in an effort to increase revenue sources.
EDGE is never going to be a dominant technology in Europe, the major networks just will not allow it. It isn't just SE who abide by this, look to the other manufacturers. Of all the different handsets currently on sale in Europe at the moment, how many have EDGE support? Not very many!
As hard as it may be for some of you to accept, SE won't give any sort of real consideration to the actual needs of Indian users (or anyone else for that matter) until India is spending on the same scale as Europe is. What many fail to realise is that SE advertisments in India do not constitute any major interest in the Indian market. SE will advertise anywhere it thinks it can get sales, it does not mean to say that they are falling over themselves to push into that market. The Indian market only had 44.51 million mobile phone users by October 2004 as can be seen from this website. That is nowhere near the European level! No manufacturer is going to risk its core market based on the needs of a relatively small market elsewhere. The Indian market has the potential to grow very large indeed, much larger than Europe, but until that time SE is going to focus its business strategy on what is making it the most money.
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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On 2005-05-11 09:52:33, orange wrote:
How? Does the investment to the other one make them competing technologies, as you seem imply? From operators point of view, both are just channels for the revenue. The other one is extremely costly and the other one is pretty cheap to build. You're still not explaining why would it hurt operators (or SE) to implement both? There are a lot of operators which have both and more to come. Are those operators stupid because they have implemented, as you say, competing technologies? Maybe someone should've told them not to do that...
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Puerile attempts at flippancy aside, your question is a valid one. It isn't a question of how cheap EDGE is to implement, it could be free for all the like sof Vodafone, O2 et al care. The big European networks have decided that 3G is the future and they want to protect their investment.
EDGE would represent a direct challenge to their 3G networks. Relatively fast data speeds from EDGE would directly compete with the main selling point of 3G. As I mentioned in my last post, there is comparitively few differentiating factors between the two for the vast majority of the public who do not need data speeds that are as fast as possi ble or who are not heavy data users.
More to the point, why should we have EDGE? 3G serves us well, the covereage is expanding rapidly and subscriber numbers are steadily increasing, so why should we bother with EDGE here? I can understand why networks in less affluent areas of the world may wish to implement EDGE, especially when it allows costs to be kept low for a market that has relatively little disposable income in global terms.
Before 3G the Japanese market used (and still does) a form of CDMA completely seperate from the rest of the world. I may have liked Japanese handsets at the time, but I was not calling for the Japanese handset makers to alter their products for the European market. I understood that the markets were different and that the Japanese were never going to accomodate many European wishes. To those manufacturers Japan was far more important than Europe and they built handsets accordingly, just as SE is doing with Europe/Japan.
Operators who implement both EDGE and 3G will eventually find themselves having to choose between the two; it is inevitable. EDGE has a limited shelf-life and it will no doubt serve certain operators well who are either operating in smaller markets; poorer markets; markets with 3G implementation problems; markets where EDGE has already been implemented or a combination of these factors. Each individual market has its own needs of course, but in the context of Europe those needs need to eb taken together as a whole too. Simply put, EDGE ha sno long term future in Europe, it may exist in various forms in the short-term, but in the long term it is defunct in Europe.
SE and other manufacturers releasing handsets in Europe simply do not put any great emphasis upon EDGE, as I have said before; look at the number of EDGE enabled handsets available in Europe as part of the overall handset compliment.
The whole issue is very political, the major European networks simply do not want EDGE as a long-term option. Too much money is involved to allow anything to stand in the way of 3G as the dominant standard across Europe.
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"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2005-05-11 15:29 ] |
shyam335
Joined: May 25, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: 127.0.0.1
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allright,i have a question for u guys,in my country 3g has not reached as of yet,so pardon my ignorance,suppose u were having a video call with someone in 3g network,and suddenly u looses the 3g signal and gets switched to gprs,what will happen to the video call,will it disconnect or will it still continue under low quality in gprs?
There are a terrible lot of lies going around the world, and the worst of it is half of them are true - Winston Churchill
We shape our buildings; thereafter they shape us - Winston Churchill |
goldenface
Joined: Dec 17, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Liverpool City Centre
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Only voice calls may seamlessly transfer from 3 - 2.5 (GPRS). Video will cut out.
Which country are you in? |
shyam335
Joined: May 25, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: 127.0.0.1
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so video will be compleatley cut out and gone?
well,im from india.
There are a terrible lot of lies going around the world, and the worst of it is half of them are true - Winston Churchill
We shape our buildings; thereafter they shape us - Winston Churchill |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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@shyam335
If one moves from 3G covereage to GPRS covereage during a video call the call will drop. Supposedly Vodafone should transfer the call straight to voice though.
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
shyam335
Joined: May 25, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: 127.0.0.1
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okay,maybe itll sound a bit crazy,but here is what i was thinking,in above case,if it was edge,would it be possible to continue video call with lower quality,ie stream via edge(since edge has better speed)?
thanks for the info scotsboy and goldenface.
There are a terrible lot of lies going around the world, and the worst of it is half of them are true - Winston Churchill
We shape our buildings; thereafter they shape us - Winston Churchill |
goldenface
Joined: Dec 17, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Liverpool City Centre
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Correct me if I am wrong but from what I know so far, Edge does not support Video calling and if this is so then a Video call would not transfer to Edge. Compatibility may be an issue also.
Whether it will in the future I cannot say.
[ This Message was edited by: goldenface on 2005-05-11 16:51 ] |
shyam335
Joined: May 25, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: 127.0.0.1
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ya,edge doesnt support video call,but look at ptt,i was thinking in that way.
There are a terrible lot of lies going around the world, and the worst of it is half of them are true - Winston Churchill
We shape our buildings; thereafter they shape us - Winston Churchill | |
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Posted: 2005-05-11 12:14
