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The Danish Mohammad cartoon row - what do you think? |
absinthebri
Joined: Feb 11, 2004
Posts: 476
From: London, UK
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Free speech means I can say what I want. I can be offensive, untruthful and even deliberately malicious, should I choose.
Free speech doesn't have to be 'good' speech.
As I've said, I think those cartoons were a foolish enterprise, but I will defend the right to be foolish.
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JK
Joined: Feb 24, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: S. Africa - JOZI
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Quote:
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On 2006-02-06 08:52:14, absinthebri wrote:
Free speech means I can say what I want. I can be offensive, untruthful and even deliberately malicious, should I choose.
Free speech doesn't have to be 'good' speech.
As I've said, I think those cartoons were a foolish enterprise, but I will defend the right to be foolish.
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And then you can get arrested and bring your coutry name down just like this "fool" has! |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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@absin
That is exactly it. I don't think those cartoons were a particularly good idea either, but I will defend the author's right to publish them. As you say, free speech isn't necessarily good speech; very well put!
The right to say what we please, hold our own opinions and discuss, question and debate issues is a fundamental principle of our society. No one or no thing should be out of reach of people to discuss and debate, whether it be a religious matter or not. We don't need to agree with everything that is said, but we do need to respect the person's right to say it.
@786
The author of the cartoons has not been arrested and Denmark may only have had its reputation sullied in some Muslim countries. Fellow Europeans will not be blaming Denmark for anything because it wasn't Denmark who published the cartoons, it was a man working for a Danish newspaper; there is no connection to the Danish government.
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"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2006-02-06 08:02 ] |
gelfen
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Melbourne, Australia
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Quote:
| On 2006-02-06 08:42:54, 786KBR wrote:
@ Scots I dont believe theirs another cartoonist out there daring enough to pull another stint like this! |
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don't bet on it 
http://www.coxandforkum.com/
another interesting website (a more serious if no less relevant one):
Mohammed Image Archive
"Controversy over the publication of images depicting Mohammed in the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten has erupted into an international furor. While Muslims worldwide are calling for a boycott of Denmark and any other nation whose press reprints the cartoons, Europeans are trying to stand up for Western principles of freedom of speech and not cave in to self-censorship in the name of multiculturalism and fear.
While the debate rages, an important point has been overlooked: despite the Islamic prohibition against depicting Mohammed under any circumstances, hundreds of paintings, drawings and other images of Mohammed have been created over the centuries, with nary a word of complaint from the Muslim world. The recent cartoons in Jyllands-Posten are nothing new; it's just that no other images of Mohammed have ever been so widely publicized.
This page is an archive of numerous depictions of Mohammed, to serve as a reminder that such imagery has been part of Western and Islamic culture since the Middle Ages -- and to serve as a resource for those interested in freedom of expression."
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JK
Joined: Feb 24, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: S. Africa - JOZI
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@ scots yes you right, it was the Jordanion editor that was arrested, A Danish newspaper is a danish brand! |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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@786
Yes the newspaper is Danish, but it has nothing to do with the Danish government or the Danish people. It is a privately owned company and therefore chooses what it publishes itself. If the newspaper had been state owned then one would have reason to take the matter up with the Danish government, but as it is the Danish government has nothing to do with the newspaper's editorial policy and can only refer people to the apology made by the newspaper.
_________________
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2006-02-06 08:28 ] |
steele
Joined: Dec 27, 2003
Posts: 329
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In our country, if a press person writes something bad (meaning untrue, offensive, and degrading comments) about a person, the person concerned normally sues the writer for libel. Yes, there's freedom of speech but there's also what you call MALISCIOUS spreading of FALSE information. And when that happens, you should be responsible for your thoughts and actions. However, Rule of Law should always apply. Not Violence and Killing.
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JK
Joined: Feb 24, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: S. Africa - JOZI
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Our government banned our newspapers from publishing the pics!
But I get what you saying, but still Coke is a company, but its american, and Mcdonalds and Nike are all american BASED companies.. |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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@786
So what if they are? Just because a company is based in a particular country does not make the government or people of that country responsible for it. The newspaper is privately owned, it could be based in the UK, Australia, New Zealand, France or wherever else for all it would matter.
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
JK
Joined: Feb 24, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: S. Africa - JOZI
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Quote:
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On 2006-02-06 09:57:53, scotsboyuk wrote:
@786
So what if they are? Just because a company is based in a particular country does not make the government or people of that country responsible for it. The newspaper is privately owned, it could be based in the UK, Australia, New Zealand, France or wherever else for all it would matter.
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I know that!
But in the eyes of the Islamic world its joined the likes of the US, Israel and others alike! |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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From: UK
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Quote:
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On 2006-02-06 10:07:30, 786KBR wrote:
I know that!
But in the eyes of the Islamic world its joined the likes of the US, Israel and others alike!
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Let me get this straight, because an independently owned newspaper exercised its right to free speech and published cartoons that Muslims find offensive you are blaming Denmark as a whole? The irony is flooding out of your post!
Westerners have been accused of lumping Muslims together and as seeing Muslims as being terrorists because of the actions of extremists. Now it appears that you are doing something similar in blaming the the nation of Denmark for the actions of one newspaper.
_________________
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2006-02-06 09:18 ] |
JK
Joined: Feb 24, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: S. Africa - JOZI
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I know what you saying , its like not all Israelis are killers, not all americans support bush and not all muslims are terrorists but unfortunatly thats just how everyones pigeon holed! |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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From: UK
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@786
Most Europeans don't think that all Muslims are violent extremists so why should, as you allege, Muslims see all Westerners as being the same?
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
JK
Joined: Feb 24, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: S. Africa - JOZI
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@ Scots what does the branding on the thread name say???! |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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From: UK
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@786
"The Danish Mohammad cartoon row - what do you think?"
I think I see what you are getting at here so I shall forward my answer now. The title of the thread is to identify the subject matter; the cartoons were printed by a Danish newspaper hence the inclusion of the word 'Danish'. However, that is quite a different thing from associating blame and focusing the attention of one's anger on someone or something unconnected with the event.
The newspaper can be described as being a Danish newspaper, but that does not mean that it has anything to do with the Danish state. If someone had described you as South African twenty years ago, should that mean that you would be associated with supporting apartheid? If a Muslim blows himself up and kills lots of people should one therefore associate the term Muslim, which may be used to describe the person, with the actions of that man? Of course not, it is a descriptive term pure and simple.
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
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Posted: 2006-02-06 08:52
