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Political/Religious Threads |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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Having conducted some research on the topic of politcal and/or religious debates on Esato I find that many aren't particuarly keen on them. I can't say I am myself.
Such debates are fine when they are kept civil and everyone respects one another's points, but of course this seems to be more and more of a rare occurrence. As I see it they lead to anger and resentment amongst members and they spill over into the rest of the forum.
Why are such topics even debated on Esato at the level they are? Esato is supposed to be a website dedicated to mobile phones in general and SE phone in particular not a political or religious forum. There are a number of such forums on the internet where such topics can be discussed.
Esato has a very strong sense of community, which goes beyond mobile phones and of course non-mobile issues are and should be discussed. However, when those topics start to cause flame wars and insults and anger I don't think they are really in the best interest of this forum or its members. Other non-mobile discussions reguarly entertain and interest us to the extent that we speak to members we may not have known before and we make new freinds and have a spot of fun in the process. The political and religious debates seem to do little other than alienate people and cause divisions.
I do not buy into the notion, which says 'If you don't like it, don't read it' in this case because these sorts of topics have a habit of raising their ugly heads all over the place. They don't seem to be able to stay within their own territory and creep out to other threads.
Now personally I would be quite happy if those sorts of topics were banned from Esato completely, but I recognise that we do have a community spirit here, which, as I said before, does take in non-mobile issues too. I would favour, and indeed call for, tighter control over how such topics are handled. Call me autocratic if you will, but at the first hint of flaming or bitterness such threads should either be locked or deleted. Perhaps those who cannot conduct themselves in a civil manner in a debate should be barred from participating in such debates?
I would like to here the opinions of others' on this issue. Commets are very welcome indeed.
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"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2005-07-09 20:14 ] |
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voda_jon
Joined: Nov 28, 2004
Posts: > 500
PM |
@scotsboyuk....
I whole heartedly agree... If i wanted to rant about political an ethical subjects i would go to a forum dedicated to that sort of debate.... I come to Esato (not very often since i found se-nse  ) to look for fone info and downloads not politcal arguements... an the comment 'if u dont like it dont read it' is totally wrong...
ITS A MOBILE PHONE FORUM LETS KEEP IT THAT WAY! |
whizkidd
Joined: May 14, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: India
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Saw this thread just when i was gonna reply to your pm regarding the matter! Scots, i think for a forum as big, vibrant and multi-cultured as esato, political-religious debates do have a place. But, i have to agree on the thought that such threads may lead to flame wars or animosity between members who have contrasting opinions...its a delicate issue.
T230 >> T610 >> Ngage QD >> N73 >> N85 >> Omnia HD >> And countless other review units |
superstags
Joined: Dec 23, 2003
Posts: 13
From: mansfield england
PM |
fully agree with your comment scotsboy, i look here for fone info regularly and post rarely, this is a mobile fone dedicated forum, not a political/religious forum. |
masseur
Joined: Jan 03, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Sydney, London
PM |
since this has now gone public I will give my opinion as stated in PM that Esato is not a "dedicated" mobile phone forum, it is a community primarily based around Sony Ericsson phones but where we discuss (almost) any issues including topics of the day. Its just unfortunate that the topics of politics and moreso, religion, have much broader views depending on the members background, culture, beliefs etc etc.
This does not mean that we should not discuss such topics but it does mean that members should excercise a little more restraint when replying and try to be a little more mature rather than resorting to name calling etc but this is forum policy for any topic
in regards to...
Quote:
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On 2005-07-09 21:18:47, voda_jon wrote:
snip...
an the comment 'if u dont like it dont read it' is totally wrong...
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I disagree. if you come here for mobile topics then why go looking in the non mobile forums as they are quite distinct and therefore easy to avoid. However as a passing comment, I see that that you have participated in many many non mobile related topics as has the thread starter, myself and many regulars for whatever reasons we have be they for light relief or to partake of a serious discussion (though these admittedly are harder to find  )
There are many topics that I have no interest in and I do simply ignore them and its not hard to do, especially if I feel they are complete nonesense because of their content (i.e. any by meths ) or the discussion is going nowhere. I don't feel simply because I disagree with the content of the topic that I MUST reply to it to make others know that I disagree with the topic.. I just pass on by
Clearly this is also the general case at Esato as not every member participates in every thread here but for some reason people seem not able to bypass the type of threads being discussed in this topic
so, to put the question in reverse, why should political and religious topics upset those who have no interest in them or believe them to be not worthwhile subjects each time these topics are raised?
from a moderators point of view these threads are a pain in the... well you know... as we have to watch them more carefully than we do most other threads, even if we have no interest ourselves, but the same applies to some of the very borderline garbage threads too and its just something we have to take care of. For this reason only I would like to see less of all these
However, consider as an example the recent London bombings where a group called "Secret Group of Al Qaeda's Jihad in Europe" claimed responsibility. This immediately makes that discussion turn to religion in one form or another and thence quite often a political one when governments are blamed for this reason or that and all this is completely unavoidable. Should we then disallow the discussion of the London bombings? I think not.
in conclusion, I motion to not add any restriction to these threads however I will take on board, as I'm sure other moderators will, all comments made here and consider them in moderator forum discussion and so now having given my thoughts in this post I'll not debate the topic further myself but will look forward to comments from other members
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absinthebri
Joined: Feb 11, 2004
Posts: 476
From: London, UK
PM |
As someone who is interested in politics, I note (often wryly) how often political posts are made by people who will say they are not political or do not wish to discuss politics.
To say "The bombings in London are outrageous" is a political statement (and one I'm sure we ALL agree with (and that's a political statement, too)).
The issue appears not to be political posts, but political posts WE DISAGREE WITH.
And, (and this is an outrageous political statement) people who want to stiffle legitimate debate and freedom of speech are no better than the terrorists.
You can see the mess we get ourselves in to, even "innocently". |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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@masseur & absin
You both raise valid points. I would like to say that the issue isn't one of regarding such topics as 'unworthy' as such, they often touch upon very interesting topics. However, they also often spiral into pettiness and confrontation, which then spills over into other parts of the forum.
When absin says "The issue appears not to be political posts, but political posts WE DISAGREE WITH." I don't see that as being the issue at all. Disagreement is fine, if it can be conducted in a civil manner, which does not lead to the afore mentioned results. The problem lies in the fact that people get so worke dup over such issues. Any issue, whether it be political/religious or otherwise, which reults in fighting or bitterness or confrontation is detrimental to the forum and its members in my opinion. It just so happens that politcal/religious threads tend to see this behaviour all too often.
I can't agree with masseur when he talks of the 'don't like it don't look' approach because as I said, such issues have had a tendency to spill beyond their borders and involve people anyway.
The recent thread concerning the London bombings is one example of this. Obstensibly setup to show respect to those caught up in the atatcks and discuss them it has degenerated, at points, into pettiness and recrimination. The chap who created the thread and others have had to call for the thread to remain on-topic a few times.
Once again I state, if one wishes to discuss such issues then why not do so on a dedicated forum? If they must be discussed here then I think there should be greater enforcement upon such threads to ensure that they neither descend into bitter flaming or spill out into other threads.
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
MikLSP
Joined: Sep 21, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: se-nse.com
PM |
My opinion is that having threads on religious debates or the likes is a sure line for trouble on an open forum like this, someone will cause trouble and (no offense but) there are also a lot of 'kids' in places like this who will think it is funny to cause tension.
Any such discussions will just end up in a flame war and as a result I think they should be closed and the posters adviced to go to a dedicated site for that sort of thing to discuss it further.
If selling non-mobile items is banned due to being 'not in the essence of esato' then neither is religious debate 
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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@Mik
A very good point as far as I'm concerned. If laffen is interested in preserving the 'essence' of Esato then one would have thought that threads, which often cause flaming and division would not be conductive to that 'essence'.
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
Sammy_boy
Joined: Mar 31, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Staffordshire, United Kingdom
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I do sometimes find those kinds of threads quite interesting, but they do tend to degenerate into flame wars far too quickly, there does seem to be a minority that either take those threads too seriously or seem to go out of their way to wind other people up.
"All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke
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slattery69
Joined: Jan 03, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: north east england
PM |
i agree with sammyboy i enjoy the thread up till the points people become disrespcetful of other peoples views.
to often i find people un willing to listen to any other theories other than there own.
at that point its no longer a discussion. i think if people try to appreciate others view points we could all make use of such discussions but if not they should just be locked.
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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@slattery
I would agree very much with that. Such threads can be very interesting when the people involved are able to debate with one another in a civil manner. Sadly they usually end up turning into flame wars with people determined to bang their drum irrespective of others.
That's the reason I favour tougher moderation of such threads to keep them in line. That is if they have to exist at all.
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
Elrond
Joined: May 14, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Slovakia
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In my opinion discussions in political and religious threads leads often if not always into flame wars, so the best choice would be imho to try not creating any of these types of threads. We should try not creating any of these types. There are a lot of sites which are related to such a discussions.
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absinthebri
Joined: Feb 11, 2004
Posts: 476
From: London, UK
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Quote:
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On 2005-07-09 23:33:12, scotsboyuk wrote:
...the reason I favour tougher moderation of such threads to keep them in line. That is if they have to exist at all.
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I find political threads are quite firmly moderated. I'm often 'advised' on the nature of my political postings. I'm also often advised when people contact a moderator about the content of my posts and no action is taken. This would suggest that some people are more interested in trying to censor me rather than have any valid point to bring up. |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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@absin
With respect to the moderators, I don't think such threads are moderated enough judging by the flaming and pettiness that I see occurring with such issues.
As for censorship, this isn't a democarcy and neither you, I or anyone else has a right to say what they like. I am actually rather heartened to hear that othe rmembers are as concerned with this issue as I am and pm the moderators with their concerns.
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
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Posted: 2005-07-09 21:11
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