| Author |
Sony Xperia Rumours 2018 |
skyXperia
Joined: Jun 19, 2018
Posts: 175
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Yes. M+ LCD is great. XZ2P screen should be great if sony use it right. Unfortunately, they don't. Still need to wait for the firmware update if they try to fix that.
Well, when Sony said they won't give up on the 3.5mm and see now what we got. OIS appear on XA2U front cam. XZ2 got this ultra low light. I don't know but if they want to apply it. We should see this before the dual cam setup.
For people who love Samsung screen should buy a Galaxy instead. Color profile is impossible to be same from 2 different company. Curved screen is the only way to hide the bezel with water proof.
I really hope the curved screen look from onleak render is just because of the lighting and reflexion. | |
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Shino03
Joined: Dec 22, 2008
Posts: > 500
From: Pearl of the Orient Seas
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On 2018-08-02 11:54:32, pigletsquid wrote:
As I've said myself, few people use a tripod, but they exit. And btw, if you want to compare two smartphone cameras, at least part of that test has to be done on a tripod. Otherwise, you're just comparing ease of use.
Again, from what I hear and read, XZ2P has an excellent display, by any standards.
Lol what percentage of people do you think use a tripod? Probably like 0.00001%
So no, tests shouldn’t be done with a tripod as it’s literally irrelevant for nearly all end users. Not to mention it defies the whole point of mobile photography - which is the convenience of having a camera in your pocket so you can capture shots wherever, whenever. If you’re making the effort of specifically taking a tripod with you to do photography then you might as well take a dedicated camera.
Obviously smartphone cameras can perform better with tripods, but that’s like saying they can produce better results with optimal lighting conditions so tests need to include studio lighting too 
OIS is only good for blurs cause by handshake while a camera with good iso handling can freeze moving subjects at night.
I don't know what am I doing wrong but it seems to me that it was easier for me to capture low-light photo with my xperia before at lower shutter speeds compared to my note right now.
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xpr
Joined: May 23, 2018
Posts: 328
From: Israel
PM |
You can't really understand much from such a comparison - colors are distorted, HDR doesn't come through and what resolution do we even see here - I mean, these images aren't high quality and therefore, obviously, the screens resolution doesn't come through.
If you want to really compare them, you'll have to see both screens in real life. A lab test would give you an accurate analysis.
On 2018-08-02 11:54:32, pigletsquid wrote:
As I've said myself, few people use a tripod, but they exit. And btw, if you want to compare two smartphone cameras, at least part of that test has to be done on a tripod. Otherwise, you're just comparing ease of use.
Again, from what I hear and read, XZ2P has an excellent display, by any standards.
Lol what percentage of people do you think use a tripod? Probably like 0.00001%
So no, tests shouldn’t be done with a tripod as it’s literally irrelevant for nearly all end users. Not to mention it defies the whole point of mobile photography - which is the convenience of having a camera in your pocket so you can capture shots wherever, whenever. If you’re making the effort of specifically taking a tripod with you to do photography then you might as well take a dedicated camera.
Obviously smartphone cameras can perform better with tripods, but that’s like saying they can produce better results with optimal lighting conditions so tests need to include studio lighting too
What percentage of people uses tripods? Well, I guess that's like asking "What percentage of people buys a Sony Xperia?" Sony Xperia is still here and I can assure you that they aren't going anywhere.
I don't know the percentage and neither do you. I can tell you, however, that if you go to Amazon, eBay or AliExpress you'll find a never-ending variety of tripods. From gyro based ones to compact 15 dollar ones. It's quite obvious that they aren't there just for the decoration.
I personally use a tripod. It doesn't mean I use it every time I want to take a photo (and naturally, the better the lighting is the less need is there to use one), but I do use it. Sometimes, I just try to stabilize the device (no matter if with or without OIS) using a wall or whatever I can find to hold the phone against. My tripod doesn't weigh like a DSLR and with a 15$ price tag it certainly doesn't cost like one, and it is much more compact. That's why I always have it in my handbag.
Your claim that tests shouldn't be conducted using a tripod isn't serious and it's clearly not based on an understanding of testing methodology. Do you have information about the amplitude and frequency of the tester's shaky hands for each photo taken? Can you guarantee that when shooting with an LG the tester's hands were shaking in the exact same way when he was shooting with a Samsung? The answer is of course 'no' - you don't have such information and even if you wanted you can't really measure or avoid this variable: shaky hands. Oh and doesn't it matter if two people are conducting a test with a different level of hand stability?
For that reason, one would opt to eliminate this factor and that would be achieved using a...that's correct, a tripod. Very simple. Any serious tester like GSM or DXO does that. And yes, I'm aware of the recent credibility issues with DXO, but that's a different matter.
[ This Message was edited by: xpr on 2018-08-02 14:15 ] |
hgautam
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: > 500
PM |
Your post doesn't make any sense. Sony's sales are suffering. Their products and sales cannot improve with arguments like yours.
OIS is like a must have feature in a flagship. Those who know what it is want it in a flagship and those who don't know about it just want better pictures. And when they don't get better pictures they switch to other brands and not use a tripod. 
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Lonewolf223
Joined: Dec 24, 2017
Posts: 361
PM |
I totally agree with the fact that when on a tripod sony phones produce excellent results. But we are talking about phones here.
How many percent of casual users have tripod u ask
Almost none...
People who care about image quality to such an extent and wants a tripod to enhance image quality will surely have a dedicated camera.
As loyal fans we have to accept shortcomings of sony, and not give senseless arguments
No ois is fine for xz2p although ois would have made things more better
But xz2 needs ois and it has only f/2.0 aperture still the same from days of z2. I hope the next flagship at least have f/1.8 aperture.
If i had to take a picture at night i wouldn't crank the iso very high.
Max i will go for iso 200-300
and increase the shutter speed duration. (still images) |
skyXperia
Joined: Jun 19, 2018
Posts: 175
PM |
On 2018-08-02 16:47:21, Lonewolf223 wrote:
I totally agree with the fact that when on a tripod sony phones produce excellent results. But we are talking about phones here.
How many percent of casual users have tripod u ask
Almost none...
People who care about image quality to such an extent and wants a tripod to enhance image quality will surely have a dedicated camera.
As loyal fans we have to accept shortcomings of sony, and not give senseless arguments
No ois is fine for xz2p although ois would have made things more better
But xz2 needs ois and it has only f/2.0 aperture still the same from days of z2. I hope the next flagship at least have f/1.8 aperture.
If i had to take a picture at night i wouldn't crank the iso very high.
Max i will go for iso 200-300
and increase the shutter speed duration. (still images)
Wait. Only ISO200 ~ ISO300 for a night picture? Which scenes?
It is way too low. Even take a picture in day light will use ISO200. ISO300 for cloudy day. ISO200 for night scenes is almost impossible, unless with tons of light from the shops, street light.
Maybe it is just different style of photography.
Just finished a small test on 1/8s handheld with ISO200. I can get a blur-free pic from burst mode.
[ This Message was edited by: skyXperia on 2018-08-02 17:37 ] |
Moe87
Joined: Oct 26, 2017
Posts: > 500
PM |
When GSMArena put phones on tripods they set base ISO.
Which can be 50 for many phones.
I never used ISO above 50 in daylight shots.
Mine often uses iso 50 or 64, while shutter goes 1/2000s or 1/2500s.
What's your trick to shoot good pics with iso200 in daylight?
For cloudy sky I set EV = -0.3 or -0.7 ..
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skyXperia
Joined: Jun 19, 2018
Posts: 175
PM |
On 2018-08-02 19:00:16, Moe87 wrote:
When GSMArena put phones on tripods they set base ISO.
Which can be 50 for many phones.
I never used ISO above 50 in daylight shots.
Mine often uses iso 50 or 64, while shutter goes 1/2000s or 1/2500s.
What's your trick to shoot good pics with iso200 in daylight?
For cloudy sky I set EV = -0.3 or -0.7 ..
GSMArena way is only showing the maximum quality.
I will zoom in a bit, like 1.5x. Than EV -.3/.7.
Finally, go to Snapseed do all kind of adjustment.
To be more accurate, ISO 200 is not always. ISO 50 ~ ISO 100 is for tons of light like noon.
It is just try and error. No golden rules. Even sometimes I won't zoom in. |
xpr
Joined: May 23, 2018
Posts: 328
From: Israel
PM |
On 2018-08-02 15:52:49, hgautam wrote:
Your post doesn't make any sense. Sony's sales are suffering. Their products and sales cannot improve with arguments like yours.
OIS is like a must have feature in a flagship. Those who know what it is want it in a flagship and those who don't know about it just want better pictures. And when they don't get better pictures they switch to other brands and not use a tripod.
Sony's sales and OIS have just about nothing in common. XZ2 produces excellent pictures without OIS.
Most smartphones on the market are inferior to Xperias and yet some of them sell x20 times as much. The reason is poor (to say the least) marketing on Sony's behalf.
For the time being, although the numbers are extremely low, it seems Sony has managed to find a better financial balance. Maybe in the coming year, we will see an increase in sales. I personally don't think they will attempt to sell more than 25 million devices a year. Maybe they will even settle for 15 for the time being.
It is already known that all of Sony is going through major changes and in such a massive company like Sony, these things take time.
On 2018-08-02 16:47:21, Lonewolf223 wrote:
I totally agree with the fact that when on a tripod sony phones produce excellent results. But we are talking about phones here.
How many percent of casual users have tripod u ask
Almost none...
People who care about image quality to such an extent and wants a tripod to enhance image quality will surely have a dedicated camera.
As loyal fans we have to accept shortcomings of sony, and not give senseless arguments
No ois is fine for xz2p although ois would have made things more better
But xz2 needs ois and it has only f/2.0 aperture still the same from days of z2. I hope the next flagship at least have f/1.8 aperture.
If i had to take a picture at night i wouldn't crank the iso very high.
Max i will go for iso 200-300
and increase the shutter speed duration. (still images)
I've already said just a post ago:
- Yes, most people don't use a tripod, and although none us here may know their percentage, these folks do exist.
- A dedicated camera weighs more, isn't nearly as compact as a small tripod and it costs much much more. That means that a tripod is something you can carry with you most of the time, a professional camera isn't.
I don't know what you're basing you assumptions on, but an XZ2P with an OIS may produce results that are actually worse. Regarding the XZ2, did even try using it? I mean, to get an awesome photo may require a small amount of skill, but you don't have to be a pro.
ISO 200-300 for night pics is very low and would be used with a long exposure only. Even then, it may not be enough. What happens when you're trying to shoot a moving object? |
xpr
Joined: May 23, 2018
Posts: 328
From: Israel
PM |
On 2018-08-02 12:50:47, skyXperia wrote:
Yes. M+ LCD is great. XZ2P screen should be great if sony use it right. Unfortunately, they don't. Still need to wait for the firmware update if they try to fix that.
Well, when Sony said they won't give up on the 3.5mm and see now what we got. OIS appear on XA2U front cam. XZ2 got this ultra low light. I don't know but if they want to apply it. We should see this before the dual cam setup.
For people who love Samsung screen should buy a Galaxy instead. Color profile is impossible to be same from 2 different company. Curved screen is the only way to hide the bezel with water proof.
I really hope the curved screen look from onleak render is just because of the lighting and reflexion.
Why do you say that XZ2P's screen isn't good?
Regarding OIS on the front camera, well it was used even before XA2U AFAIK. Sony must know a little about photography and I presume they have good reasons not to put OIS on the main camera. The selfie camera has other requirements and is used differently - you don't need the best possible shot, you need a good one and when taking a selfie, things tend to be shakier. |
skyXperia
Joined: Jun 19, 2018
Posts: 175
PM |
On 2018-08-03 00:43:12, xpr wrote:
On 2018-08-02 12:50:47, skyXperia wrote:
Yes. M+ LCD is great. XZ2P screen should be great if sony use it right. Unfortunately, they don't. Still need to wait for the firmware update if they try to fix that.
Well, when Sony said they won't give up on the 3.5mm and see now what we got. OIS appear on XA2U front cam. XZ2 got this ultra low light. I don't know but if they want to apply it. We should see this before the dual cam setup.
For people who love Samsung screen should buy a Galaxy instead. Color profile is impossible to be same from 2 different company. Curved screen is the only way to hide the bezel with water proof.
I really hope the curved screen look from onleak render is just because of the lighting and reflexion.
Why do you say that XZ2P's screen isn't good?
Regarding OIS on the front camera, well it was used even before XA2U AFAIK. Sony must know a little about photography and I presume they have good reasons not to put OIS on the main camera. The selfie camera has other requirements and is used differently - you don't need the best possible shot, you need a good one and when taking a selfie, things tend to be shakier.
The screen will suddenly turn green-ish. This is SONY software problem.
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vivftp
Joined: Mar 10, 2012
Posts: > 500
PM |
Out of curiosity do we have any statements or information on what Sony's new CEO thinks of the mobile division and the direction it should head in? He's only been in power a couple of months, but I wonder if he wants to stay the course that Kaz set or go a different route. All of Sony's other divisions are doing very well so I imagine he'll want to take some action, one way or the other to deal with the mobile division. I don't believe they have any intention of scrapping the division at least. Now that Sony as a whole is pulling in a lot of money I can only hope they'll toss the mobile division a decent budget for R&D and marketing.
With 5G around the corner there's more potential for cross promotion with other divisions too. We know the PlayStation 5 is going to appear sometime within the next 2 years and video game streaming will play a role in the future of PlayStation (they have PS Now as it stands). Maybe this would be the time for the successor to the Xperia Play to make an appearance as a rebranded PlayStation Phone. Or at the very least maybe offer cross promotional discounts or service deals between the mobiles and other divisions. |
XperiaX
Joined: Feb 10, 2018
Posts: 23
PM |
I am sure Sony is planing a strategy around 5G and mobile gaming. Probably also the main reason for introducing the DVS vibration system in XZ2. The games probably won't be "Xperia exclusive", but expanding the PS-ecosystem towards mobile may help selling more phones. The PS brand is quite strong and launching a real gamer-phone may sell well towards the 100+ million PS-users. They could probably also expand the PS Plus subscription model towards social mobile gaming. Lets hope they increase the budget for mobile and bring out the real potential of Sony in all main areas (camera, screen, speakers...) + some real marketing efforts.
Similarly they could brand the next XZ3 Premium as an "Alpha-phone" with calibrated OLED 4K screen and best possible camera towards their Alpha-users. Would be great for viewing 4K-content and pictures. Alternatively a new 4K tablet.
On 2018-08-03 06:19:20, vivftp wrote:
Out of curiosity do we have any statements or information on what Sony's new CEO thinks of the mobile division and the direction it should head in? He's only been in power a couple of months, but I wonder if he wants to stay the course that Kaz set or go a different route. All of Sony's other divisions are doing very well so I imagine he'll want to take some action, one way or the other to deal with the mobile division. I don't believe they have any intention of scrapping the division at least. Now that Sony as a whole is pulling in a lot of money I can only hope they'll toss the mobile division a decent budget for R&D and marketing.
With 5G around the corner there's more potential for cross promotion with other divisions too. We know the PlayStation 5 is going to appear sometime within the next 2 years and video game streaming will play a role in the future of PlayStation (they have PS Now as it stands). Maybe this would be the time for the successor to the Xperia Play to make an appearance as a rebranded PlayStation Phone. Or at the very least maybe offer cross promotional discounts or service deals between the mobiles and other divisions.
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Moe87
Joined: Oct 26, 2017
Posts: > 500
PM |
People are replacing pocket cameras for smartphones.
Many older pocket cams have no more thsn 1/2.3" too.
Of course no phone is on pair with rx100m6.
If mobile was allowed to use that sensor , I bet they could earn more money than selling the camera.
Phones have more processing power, it would outperform the cam.
Rx100 series can record 4K too but for only short time.
But I doubt it will happen.
Bonus: https://m.weibo.cn/status/4267793501729166 Buks says sales of Premium are better than expected so far. I don't know if it just China or all places the device is being sold.
[ This Message was edited by: Moe87 on 2018-08-03 10:40 ] |
Archdragoon
Joined: Mar 18, 2015
Posts: > 500
PM |
Fun fact. The pre-order registration for XZ2P in Thailand is already full even SONY Thailand didn't announce it price yet.
Not sure about the number but I doubt that it will be a lot.
Device : Xperia 1 II
Headphone : MDR-M1ST + MUC-S12SB1, ATH-DSR9BT, WH-1000XM4
DAC/AMP : PHA-2A | |
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Posted: 2018-08-02 12:50
