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Author Sony Xperia Rumours 2016
ascariss
Sony Xperia Z3
Joined: Apr 06, 2013
Posts: > 500
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Posted: 2016-01-22 23:42
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On 2016-01-22 22:25:16, -XYZ wrote:
Which phone offers optical zoom, how well did it sell and what would be the point?
Optical image stabilisation, I can get behind that. Optical zoom is fundamentally pointless given the size constraints.
At the telephoto end, the camera will be garbage. I guarantee it.



Only a few phones to mind, the samsung S4 Zoom, not sure how well it sold, I've never seen one here. I believe the galaxy K zoom is the successor to it? Then there is the Asus Zenfone Zoom (f/2.7-4.8, 28-84mm, 3x zoom). Not the largest of apertures, f2.7 is not that large but still ok. Although if you look on the asus site the optics are placed on their side.

https://www.asus.com/Phone/ZenFone-Zoom-ZX551ML/

It does come with OIS. I searched for the sensor size, 1/3" by the looks of it, rather a disappointing size.
http://blog.gsmarena.com/3x-z[....]s-zenfone-zoom-mere-6mm-thick/

Another look at the module here
http://www.androidcentral.com[....]time-we-get-use-zooming-camera

and here
http://www.soyacincau.com/201[....]ands-on-and-first-impressions/

I can't seem to find any decent camera samples/reviews but I am not expecting anything spectacular with a f2.7 and a 1/3" sensor. As for OIS in a sony Z, well going from Z to Z5, 6 generations and not OIS, not expecting it to appear in the next flagship.

Shino03
S700
Joined: Dec 22, 2008
Posts: > 500
From: Pearl of the Orient Seas
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Posted: 2016-01-23 13:58
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The best strategy for Sony to do right now is to stop focusing on increasing their marketshare as they have stated before.

The premium is a good start. I'd like them to be on the same price tag as Apple so long as it is justified. I guess, it's time that they go all metal and stop putting cheap components in order for the price to be competitive.

Put oled, the highest ram, metal body, the best lens, better software, a better flash module, 64gb of internal storage.

They are underrated in their segment right now. I'd like to see them back as a premium brand. Unlike now that they are trying so hard to be an all-segment brand like Samsung
JohnnyNr.5
Model not set
Joined: Jun 19, 2012
Posts: 357
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Posted: 2016-01-23 15:12
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^sony could build the best smartphone of 2016 but nobody would notice it. All I hear and see on media is "Apple" and "Samsung". In the recent month there is a trend (at least in Germany) where even Huawei is gaining more momentum more than Sony.
penguino
Model not set
Joined: Apr 05, 2015
Posts: 221
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Posted: 2016-01-23 15:41
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On 2016-01-22 23:42:00, ascariss wrote:
As for OIS in a sony Z, well going from Z to Z5, 6 generations and not OIS, not expecting it to appear in the next flagship.

I am expecting it. People from Sony are not stupid, they're aware of the fact that the lack of OIS is one of the major causes why their phones are taking poor pictures. I can't find the source right now but I read the comparison review where Z5 was setting much higher ISO than its optically stabilized competitors which caused more noise. More noise means more digital noise reduction and both of them translate to less details. At lower ISO pictures were good but it was unable to keep it because there was no OIS.
Lens quality is another thing to improve because it's getting worse! Most Z5s are suffering from serious image blurring on the edges because of faulty optics.

On 2016-01-22 17:27:55, Tsepz_GP wrote:
Yes they tend to be close but not enough, e.g. The Snapdragn 810 in the Z5 series ruins it, as well as the Z5P not having 4GB RAM.

Sorry, but that's bullsh*t. 810 in the Z5 works fine, there are no overheating issues whatsoever.

On 2016-01-22 22:25:16, -XYZ wrote:
Lets not forget also, that Qualcomm f**ked all its customer by releasing a garbage chipset, with little alternatives at the high end. Unless Sony produce their own silicon, which they won't because it won't be worth it in terms of the volume they'll sell, then they are the mercy of what Qualcomm produces - no other SoC fabricator/designer competes with them right now.

Their own silicon? Do you know how much money and resources it needs? How much time to be competetive? Huawei has much more money than Sony (they are supported by the Communist Party of China), they're developing their in house Kirin SoCs for years they they're still way behind Qualcomm. I hope Sony won't even try it, they'll fail miserably. Plus fragmentation isn't good on this market because it means more compatibility issues.

On 2016-01-23 15:12:40, JohnnyNr.5 wrote:
In the recent month there is a trend (at least in Germany) where even Huawei is gaining more momentum more than Sony.

Recent month? Huawei is the 3rd biggest smartphone manufacturer in the world, they overtook Sony a while ago.
[ This Message was edited by: penguino on 2016-01-23 16:52 ]
-XYZ
Model not set
Joined: Jul 26, 2012
Posts: > 500
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Posted: 2016-01-23 18:01
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@Penguino

I'm not disagreeing with you. If you read what I wrote, I did say that Sony won't produce their own silicon. They may have/be able to acquire the fabs or sub-contract the fabrication, but they can't produce at a volume large enough to make it worthwhile. But, if you want to compete with Apple or Samsung, without relying on Qualcomm the ONLY way is to design your own SoCs.
amirprog
W800
Joined: Aug 22, 2013
Posts: > 500
From: Israel
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Posted: 2016-01-23 18:53
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If sony wants to win consumers hearts they need to change many things, some of them:
THey need to change their spirit: strive for perfection with competitive mind, to be the best, not average. Replace the ridiculously dumb 4k ips panel with a quality always on qhd 5.7" oled panel, drastically improve image processing first of all for the least noise possible, drastically improve camera software speed, add ois, drastically improve QA work, make the android software experience as fast and possible, avoid releasing camera sensors with embarrassing defects, make new design in metal, don't get cheap on spec like 4 gb of ram, focus on quality and not only on numbers bump, reduce the ip68 rating to lower ip rating for favoring heat dissipation, potentially slimmer dimensions and the addition of htc one like quality speakers, move the fingerprint sensor to the display if technology allows it, move the power button and volume keys back to their previous position, add 3d touch.
Most of the above words are said here many times by members here including myself since the 2013 (!) rumors thread - sony did not listen closely enough or they live in a delusional world. Don't even mention the rise of the Chinese manufacturers like huawei and meizu (and all the non Chinese big brands) that do wonders that produce better end result with a so called "inferior" sony sensors that sony never did with their exclusive xperia z sensors. How lousy can a praised camera division mobile division image end result be? People expect sony to be the BEST, not just average. Right now they are average barely surviving. I choose the second option. They live in a delusional world and think that a dumb 4k short buzz is enough to improve something. Not at all. All their problems are present ever since they exist.
[ This Message was edited by: amirprog on 2016-01-23 18:00 ]
nightwing369
Sony Xperia Z
Joined: Mar 18, 2013
Posts: 415
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Posted: 2016-01-23 20:04
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Agree. Why not just push the boat out and release the Z6 with 64GB internal storage (as well SD card slot), 4GB RAM, and 3500mAh battery??
[ This Message was edited by: nightwing369 on 2016-01-23 21:01 ]
Check this for the latest on the upcoming Sony phones for 2013: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AreyfktYnDHtdHN0bVFPdUFJd0ZiNzZQcjMwV1I5M0E#gid=0
yuunanase
Sony Xperia Z3
Joined: Sep 30, 2006
Posts: 280
From: utopia
PM, WWW
Posted: 2016-01-23 21:45
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On 2016-01-23 18:53:33, amirprog wrote:
If sony wants to win consumers hearts they need to change many things, some of them:

Replace the ridiculously dumb 4k ips panel with a quality always on qhd 5.7" oled panel,

The current generation of OLED screen is not impressive at all. Colour reproduction on the Z5 premium or the even the iphone are still some distance ahead. The only real advantage is the dimming of the black.
drastically improve camera software speed, add ois, drastically improve QA work, make the android software experience as fast and possible, avoid releasing camera sensors with embarrassing defects,

Agreed, the loading time of the camera is a major let down, compared to the focus speed. OIS is a must, as it is the key to reduce the noise level.

make new design in metal,

Really love the stainless steel case of z5p, but yes, they should study new designs as well.

don't get cheap on spec like 4 gb of ram,

4 gb is definately needed. Or else, why would anyone need a 64bit cpu?

reduce the ip68 rating to lower ip rating for favoring heat dissipation,

They have already did this well on z5p. No need to reduce ip rating. But who ever wrote the guideline saying that the phone is not supposed to operate under water should be fired.


htc one like quality speakers,

Never really compared, but should be a nice addition. Not really necessary though.

move the fingerprint sensor to the display if technology allows it, move the power button and volume keys back to their previous position, add 3d touch.

Again nice, but not really important

that do wonders that produce better end result with a so called "inferior" sony sensors that sony never did with their exclusive xperia z sensors.

Well, i would say that the sensor has came a long way since 2013. The camera in the current xperia generation has their advantages and disadvantages. Name me a device who has better camera colour reproduction than z5. None. Name a device who has worse noise than z5. None either. Z5 really has moved a lot. It is in the right direction, but of course, competition has not stool still either.

I think marshmallow is key to few of these problems, and i think sony will be really stupid not to use marshmallow concept as the base for their new device.
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Tsepz_GP
Apple iPhone 6 Plus
Joined: Dec 27, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: Johannesburg, South Africa
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Posted: 2016-01-23 22:34
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On 2016-01-23 15:41:33, penguino wrote:

On 2016-01-22 23:42:00, ascariss wrote:
As for OIS in a sony Z, well going from Z to Z5, 6 generations and not OIS, not expecting it to appear in the next flagship.

I am expecting it. People from Sony are not stupid, they're aware of the fact that the lack of OIS is one of the major causes why their phones are taking poor pictures. I can't find the source right now but I read the comparison review where Z5 was setting much higher ISO than its optically stabilized competitors which caused more noise. More noise means more digital noise reduction and both of them translate to less details. At lower ISO pictures were good but it was unable to keep it because there was no OIS.
Lens quality is another thing to improve because it's getting worse! Most Z5s are suffering from serious image blurring on the edges because of faulty optics.

On 2016-01-22 17:27:55, Tsepz_GP wrote:
Yes they tend to be close but not enough, e.g. The Snapdragn 810 in the Z5 series ruins it, as well as the Z5P not having 4GB RAM.

Sorry, but that's bullsh*t. 810 in the Z5 works fine, there are no overheating issues whatsoever.

On 2016-01-22 22:25:16, -XYZ wrote:
Lets not forget also, that Qualcomm f**ked all its customer by releasing a garbage chipset, with little alternatives at the high end. Unless Sony produce their own silicon, which they won't because it won't be worth it in terms of the volume they'll sell, then they are the mercy of what Qualcomm produces - no other SoC fabricator/designer competes with them right now.

Their own silicon? Do you know how much money and resources it needs? How much time to be competetive? Huawei has much more money than Sony (they are supported by the Communist Party of China), they're developing their in house Kirin SoCs for years they they're still way behind Qualcomm. I hope Sony won't even try it, they'll fail miserably. Plus fragmentation isn't good on this market because it means more compatibility issues.

On 2016-01-23 15:12:40, JohnnyNr.5 wrote:
In the recent month there is a trend (at least in Germany) where even Huawei is gaining more momentum more than Sony.

Recent month? Huawei is the 3rd biggest smartphone manufacturer in the world, they overtook Sony a while ago.
[ This Message was edited by: penguino on 2016-01-23 16:52 ]



Hmmm... You quoted me, could you point out where I said anything about heat? Nope.

The heat in the Snapdragon 810 v2.1 was reduced, as it throttles quicker, regardless, the Z5P battery life is not where it should be due to how power hungry the Snapdragon 810 is.

Qualcomm single handedly ruined many phones in 2015. The 810 never quite operates at its full capacity and is power hungry, and the 808 is underpowered yet still power hungry. The Z5, Z5P, BB Priv, HTC One M9, LG G4 and LG V10 all use either 810 or 808, all of them have huge batteries, yet all have average to poor battery life vs. Snapdragon 801 and 805 phones. The 808 is worse as its GPU is a step back from the one in the older 805, and has far less mem bandwidth.
[ This Message was edited by: Tsepz_GP on 2016-01-23 21:40 ]
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nightwing369
Sony Xperia Z
Joined: Mar 18, 2013
Posts: 415
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Posted: 2016-01-24 00:35
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Hmmm... You quoted me, could you point out where I said anything about heat? Nope.

The heat in the Snapdragon 810 v2.1 was reduced, as it throttles quicker, regardless, the Z5P battery life is not where it should be due to how power hungry the Snapdragon 810 is.

Qualcomm single handedly ruined many phones in 2015. The 810 never quite operates at its full capacity and is power hungry, and the 808 is underpowered yet still power hungry. The Z5, Z5P, BB Priv, HTC One M9, LG G4 and LG V10 all use either 810 or 808, all of them have huge batteries, yet all have average to poor battery life vs. Snapdragon 801 and 805 phones. The 808 is worse as its GPU is a step back from the one in the older 805, and has far less mem bandwidth.
[ This Message was edited by: Tsepz_GP on 2016-01-23 21:40 ]


Why not just push the boat out and release the Z6 with 64GB internal storage (as well as an SD card slot), 4GB RAM, and 3500mAh battery??
Check this for the latest on the upcoming Sony phones for 2013: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AreyfktYnDHtdHN0bVFPdUFJd0ZiNzZQcjMwV1I5M0E#gid=0
Xajel
Sony Xperia S
Joined: Jun 18, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Bahrain
PM
Posted: 2016-01-24 08:52
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^^^^

We were talking about this long time ago... infact IIRC we hoped for Z5 to have 4GB RAM, and I personally said that after the the move to 128GB, I felt that Z5 should come with 64GB as Sony doesn't offer any storage options like others.. so a flagship and -premium brand- should be always a head...

But... it's Sony after all...
hello1000
Model not set
Joined: Nov 10, 2013
Posts: 149
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Posted: 2016-01-24 08:57
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=
[ This Message was edited by: hello1000 on 2016-01-24 08:02 ]
hello1000
Model not set
Joined: Nov 10, 2013
Posts: 149
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Posted: 2016-01-24 09:03
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On 2016-01-23 22:34:44, Tsepz_GP wrote:

On 2016-01-23 15:41:33, penguino wrote:

On 2016-01-22 23:42:00, ascariss wrote:
As for OIS in a sony Z, well going from Z to Z5, 6 generations and not OIS, not expecting it to appear in the next flagship.

I am expecting it. People from Sony are not stupid, they're aware of the fact that the lack of OIS is one of the major causes why their phones are taking poor pictures. I can't find the source right now but I read the comparison review where Z5 was setting much higher ISO than its optically stabilized competitors which caused more noise. More noise means more digital noise reduction and both of them translate to less details. At lower ISO pictures were good but it was unable to keep it because there was no OIS.
Lens quality is another thing to improve because it's getting worse! Most Z5s are suffering from serious image blurring on the edges because of faulty optics.

On 2016-01-22 17:27:55, Tsepz_GP wrote:
Yes they tend to be close but not enough, e.g. The Snapdragn 810 in the Z5 series ruins it, as well as the Z5P not having 4GB RAM.

Sorry, but that's bullsh*t. 810 in the Z5 works fine, there are no overheating issues whatsoever.

On 2016-01-22 22:25:16, -XYZ wrote:
Lets not forget also, that Qualcomm f**ked all its customer by releasing a garbage chipset, with little alternatives at the high end. Unless Sony produce their own silicon, which they won't because it won't be worth it in terms of the volume they'll sell, then they are the mercy of what Qualcomm produces - no other SoC fabricator/designer competes with them right now.

Their own silicon? Do you know how much money and resources it needs? How much time to be competetive? Huawei has much more money than Sony (they are supported by the Communist Party of China), they're developing their in house Kirin SoCs for years they they're still way behind Qualcomm. I hope Sony won't even try it, they'll fail miserably. Plus fragmentation isn't good on this market because it means more compatibility issues.

On 2016-01-23 15:12:40, JohnnyNr.5 wrote:
In the recent month there is a trend (at least in Germany) where even Huawei is gaining more momentum more than Sony.

Recent month? Huawei is the 3rd biggest smartphone manufacturer in the world, they overtook Sony a while ago.
[ This Message was edited by: penguino on 2016-01-23 16:52 ]



Hmmm... You quoted me, could you point out where I said anything about heat? Nope.

The heat in the Snapdragon 810 v2.1 was reduced, as it throttles quicker, regardless, the Z5P battery life is not where it should be due to how power hungry the Snapdragon 810 is.

Qualcomm single handedly ruined many phones in 2015. The 810 never quite operates at its full capacity and is power hungry, and the 808 is underpowered yet still power hungry. The Z5, Z5P, BB Priv, HTC One M9, LG G4 and LG V10 all use either 810 or 808, all of them have huge batteries, yet all have average to poor battery life vs. Snapdragon 801 and 805 phones. The 808 is worse as its GPU is a step back from the one in the older 805, and has far less mem bandwidth.
[ This Message was edited by: Tsepz_GP on 2016-01-23 21:40 ]




Samsung Galaxy S3,S4,S5 and S6 ans Note 4 anbd Note 4 all those phone have poor battery with their power hunger crapsung CPU and their GPU is also crap, all those negative are leftout in many reviews. No complain from you

The speakers of the Xperia are almost or eqeal to HTC even sony speakers are waterproof: No complain from you with poor speakers of samsung.

The capless USB S5 active problem not tested (many complain about waterproof) No complain fom you

Samsung paid their revieweres, Display/camera test site are also paid by samsung and no complain from you

The AMoled display from Samsung always bad color reproduction: no complains from you
S6 has also 3 GIG: no complaint from you

You samsung lovers always whining about 16 GIG memory to Sony, S6,Note 5 has also no memoryslot: no complains from you.

And OIS talking, sony no need it its becous people like you complaints about becouse the reviewers said that, you know those who get paid from samsung

So keep atacking Sony while samung is busy with buy out providers,retailers and reviewers to promote their product whiule they lacking good display,good speakers,good camera,cardslot,materials they use.............................

O my God, you have feel the S6 Edge, its feels like a toy cheap to make and ask the high price just what Apple do
Tsepz_GP
Apple iPhone 6 Plus
Joined: Dec 27, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: Johannesburg, South Africa
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Posted: 2016-01-24 09:22
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nightwing369

That would be great. Lets hope they do that.

Xajel

Exactly. The funny thing is Sony have mostly good hardware, they just need to go that extra mile and offer above what competitors are doing. Give a 128GB option, throw in 4GB RAM, add a powerful DAC etc...

hello1000
your claims show you haven't a clue of what you are talking about. Rather than spew baseless rubbish, just say you hate Samsung, and let the rest of us grown ups have a proper discussion.

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MyP910
Sony Xperia Z
Joined: Feb 16, 2005
Posts: 489
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Posted: 2016-01-24 10:18
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this reply is directed at amirprog. For others, I'm sorry for going out of topic.

@amirprog,

who are you? why should I care with what you said? My opinion is my personal preferences and that is why I clearly said that I'm in the minority because I know not many people have the same opinion with me. Your claims on some Note5 featuers/spec best on the market is absurd. You don't have data to support that. As of now, that is just your opinion. You are entitled to your opinion as I am with mine. I can definitely say the same with Sony's phone.

I admit that I'm still using Z1 (since the phone is still running perfectly) and the only samsung phone that I've used is galaxy S3. My wife is using M5. But, I've tried Z5P and S6 for comparison purposes. I haven't done note 5 to z5p comparison side by side though.

Design - Sony Xperia Z5P wins.
Display - Sony Xperia Z5P wins. Must be experienced in person to fully appreciate.
Screen to body ratio - I prefer Sony
Sound - Sony Xperia Z5P
Camera - Sony Xperia Z5P and M5 ( I like M5 more). I only view the image on the phone screen. For serious photo shoot, I'm using Sony A7.
Camera software - I can't comment on this. Perhaps samsung has more features.
Performance - I prefer Z5P but as of now, both phones perform similar.
Battery - definitely sony
Speaker - Sone Z5p
Software - I prefer Sony.
Storage - Sony (because of expandable)
Unique features - I like the wireless charging on note 5 and I like the S pen. I like water proofing on sony and I like the 4K screen.


Again, the above is my personal opinion/preferences and you have your own personal perferences. You can't say samsung is the best in market because it is not.

The only reasong sony is not selling well is marketing and this is not happeing now. The samsung's advantage on the publicity aspect starts since the beginning samsung galaxy....due to the infamous copycat blunders. That is how samsung lead the android market. Once you have a strong foothold, it will continue unless some drastic changes happen.

again, sorry for going off topic. This is my last reply to this issue.
[ This Message was edited by: MyP910 on 2016-01-24 10:00 ]
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