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Sony began seeding ICS update to the 2011 Xperia lineup |
djin
Joined: Jun 13, 2007
Posts: > 500
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@razec,
Desire c has lower resolution but it has lower clocked cpu and gpu, plus its adreno 200 vs 205 of xperia arc. So it does not really have the advantage of lower resolution.
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Regarding ics, does it mean that the people who bought arc ,etc did not buy it for playing too? Whenever there is a new update there will be incompatibility and developers need to optimise it for the new version. If this was such a big issue, why did sony release U and P with novathor? Not all apps and games run on it because of compatibility issues. It takes time and these sort of problems get sorted out. IMO 512mb was considered low before gingerbread itself, and gingerbread brought several optimisations so it was still ok. What I think sony really needs to do is update it beyond ics, if that does bring better performance, and I am sure it does. That would make them more trust worthy.
@Tsepz_gp,
Samsung updated only few handsets which is a much bigger dissapointment, Sony on the other hand is not updating ONE handset. If we take the percentages there would be a big diffrence and, Both of these companies guaranteed updates for 18 months.
Xperia T + N 96 R.I.P Desire  | |
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Tsepz_GP
Joined: Dec 27, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: Johannesburg, South Africa
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Lolstebbo
Thats how updates are, there will be instability in some apps and games, its up to the developers to bring them up to speed with everything, thats how it is even in iOS. Why couldn't Sony advise their developers and partners to then update the games? Or why not atleast give users the option of updating or not?
Randomuser
Im talking from experience in going through the same crap with SE, they had some rubbish excuse as to why the X10 wouldn't go past 2.1, many of us had to do petitions, threaten on FB and Twitter and THEN they worked on 2.3, it looks like a repeat of that now, and with people like you defending them i wont be shocked if they do this again to another product, it just never ends with them.
Djin
Are you aware of the fact that EVERY GS2 variant, every Galaxy Note variant, every Galaxy Tab7 variant, Tab8.9 variant and Tab10.1 variants are either being updated as we speak or are getting the upgrade??? The number of GS2 variants alone is probably about the same as the entire SE 2011 line, the SE 2011 are ALL on the same S2 Snapdragon, the GS2 variants use differing HW, Exynos (International/Sprint USA), TI OMAP (i9100G), S3 Snapdragon (USA/Canada), lets then not forget the Galaxy Ace2, Galaxy S Advance etc...
Also, instead of just leaving the original 2010 Galaxy S, Samsung made the effort to give it some ICS features, last i checked my X10 is still on the buggy 2.3.3, they never even bothered to a bug reduction update. Id say Samsung have done a better job with updates, and unlike promising a specific update and then back tracking on it as Sony has, Samsung will do their research 1st AND THEN release a statement explaining the situation and bring a minor update.
Tell me, will the Play get a minor update to atleast iron out bugs?
Seems to be getting abandond.
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djin
Joined: Jun 13, 2007
Posts: > 500
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@Tsepz_Gp,
I think you missed my point,
out of 17(or maybe more) galaxy phones, about 6 are being updated to ics. S2 variant is still S2, just like if i believe you that entire 2011 xperia handsets are exactly the same even though there are many diffrences besides the cpu processor.
So take out the percentages of support from each company,
sony has supported 90% of their models and samsung has supported 35% of their models. These figures are not really for quoting me or any proof, but merely the number of models each company released last year and spporting it for ics update. This was my point. I know sony has messed up the ics update which i have also said.
Also "Samsung will do their research 1st AND THEN release a statement explaining the situation and bring a minor update" was hard for me to believe especially regarding how they back tracked on their super amoled + screens which your s2 has. It seems they did their research later AND THEN fixed the issue, after experimenting on millions of people.
I am just criticizing where they didnt do well, and sony updated 90% of their models and they have said 4.0.4 will come to it too. SO hopefully that will make things better as compared to the current ics update. x10 was a disaster, Which i expect them to not do again for the newer handsets. But they are the only company which has supported most number of handsets in their portfolio which i think is stupid to criticize about. Not everyone goes for flaghsip phones and those who dont and go for mid range,etc devices also deserve to have an update. They are not paying less for the operating system when they go midrange but for h/w. Which is why these things matter. Those who got xperia mini will have ics but those who have galaxy mini wont. Only the ones which you said will have them , and those include tablets, Basically s2,note, w and r will get ics. Thats it. So I believe I am aware of what I am saying for the most parts?
Xperia T + N 96 R.I.P Desire |
lolstebbo
Joined: Aug 01, 2009
Posts: 186
From: California
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On 2012-05-26 12:38:00, Tsepz_GP wrote:
Lolstebbo
Thats how updates are, there will be instability in some apps and games, its up to the developers to bring them up to speed with everything, thats how it is even in iOS. Why couldn't Sony advise their developers and partners to then update the games? Or why not atleast give users the option of updating or not?
From what I information I was able to gather (the internet is a convenient tool for research), changes in ICS that Google made affect how games work on Android. Furthermore, it compromises the stability of the gamepad. This is what game developers and members on XDA Forums that tested out the ROM have said. If one company telling developers to get their apps updated to work on newer versions of Android, then all the Android applications would have been updated to conform to Holo by now. That's clearly not the case, so if the company responsible for Android's development can't get major third-parties such as Facebook and Twitter to update their apps to match Holo, do you really expect a minor OEM in the ecosystem to be able to get game developers to update their games (a process that is significantly easier said than done) to ensure that they work on one single device?
Sony opted not to give the option because it ultimately reduces their liability. If the primary marketed function becomes unusable because of the update, then, even if Sony issues a warning about it (they've already been issuing warnings that ICS may not run as well as GB on the 2011 Xperias), Sony still becomes subject to negative feedback that could be worse than the feedback they're getting for not rolling out the update.
Sony provides the option for users to unlock their bootloaders and easily flash on new ROMs. If you really want ICS on your device, then go that route. It's not like Sony goes out of their way to try to make you be stuck on their own ROMs. |
Tsepz_GP
Joined: Dec 27, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: Johannesburg, South Africa
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Djin
What im saying is that the S2 variants are different phones, they differ just as much as the 2011 Xperia's, and some of the S2 variants are sold together in some markets e.g. the i9100 and i9100G. There's even a GS2 HD, they are a line of devices themselves under the GS2 brand.
Anyway, it is not just the S2, and Note, the Galaxy R, Galaxy Ace2 and Galaxy S Advance are also getting it, so NO, its not just flagships.
WRT the Super AMOLED Plus, they already said we shouldnt see any sort of degradation for atleast 2-3years 
The difference here is Samsung and HTC dont promise what they cant deliver. The Play was one expensive phone and is less than a year old, it had a lot of hype, the least Sony and the game developers could do is to update the games and work together to make a nice update for the Xperia Play users, its very unfair that an Xperia Ray will be able to run apps like Chrome and Apex, and get the nicer more consistant UI, while the high end Play will be left behind.
Anyway, why am i worried???  I see the Sony fans around here are fine with this sort of treatment, and i dont use Sony phones anymore. I can now see why members like Toney Ericsson pretty much gave up all hope in Sony/SE. I expect to see a similar thing when Jelly Bean arrives, its bad enough the Xperia S is behind older phones, and only gets its update late next month, whilest its rivals....nevermind,just thing about the situation gives me headache. 
Randomuser
That is very true, i see what you mean, but appp like Twitter and FB have their own UI in general, both were tweaked under the hood to run on ICS , and i can say Twitter works like a charm, FB on the other hand is unstable on both Android and iOS.
On a daily basis i have apps wanting to update, many list ICS optimization as part of the update, so this is bound to happen. What this means is that the Play is screwed in the long run, its creating more fragmentation, and those devs will leave the Play behind as they update their games for ICS phones.
[ This Message was edited by: Tsepz_GP on 2012-05-26 18:09 ] Phone: iPhone 15 Pro Max Black Ti 512GB
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Bonovox
Joined: Apr 13, 2008
Posts: > 500
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I like the new Sony phones now. Have not bought a Samsung for ages. Went off them. But what's the future then for new models coming out with lower specs/hardware on Android?? Is it that ALL Android future phones will need the same specs to be able to run it's latest version of the OS?? Android does not follow the strict rules of Windows Phone where it requires certain specs to run properly. Think Android is becoming a mess
Phone?? What phone?? |
3_nity
Joined: Jul 25, 2008
Posts: 186
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On 2012-05-26 14:57:29, djin wrote:
@Tsepz_Gp,
I think you missed my point,
out of 17(or maybe more) galaxy phones, about 6 are being updated to ics. S2 variant is still S2, just like if i believe you that entire 2011 xperia handsets are exactly the same even though there are many diffrences besides the cpu processor.
So take out the percentages of support from each company,
sony has supported 90% of their models and samsung has supported 35% of their models. These figures are not really for quoting me or any proof, but merely the number of models each company released last year and spporting it for ics update. This was my point. I know sony has messed up the ics update which i have also said.
Also "Samsung will do their research 1st AND THEN release a statement explaining the situation and bring a minor update" was hard for me to believe especially regarding how they back tracked on their super amoled + screens which your s2 has. It seems they did their research later AND THEN fixed the issue, after experimenting on millions of people.
I am just criticizing where they didnt do well, and sony updated 90% of their models and they have said 4.0.4 will come to it too. SO hopefully that will make things better as compared to the current ics update. x10 was a disaster, Which i expect them to not do again for the newer handsets. But they are the only company which has supported most number of handsets in their portfolio which i think is stupid to criticize about. Not everyone goes for flaghsip phones and those who dont and go for mid range,etc devices also deserve to have an update. They are not paying less for the operating system when they go midrange but for h/w. Which is why these things matter. Those who got xperia mini will have ics but those who have galaxy mini wont. Only the ones which you said will have them , and those include tablets, Basically s2,note, w and r will get ics. Thats it. So I believe I am aware of what I am saying for the most parts?
I agree with you. 
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Tsepz_GP
Joined: Dec 27, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: Johannesburg, South Africa
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Bonovox
Its an absolute mess but the manufacturers who handle it best are the ones who are very successful. Thats why Samsung, HTC, and ASUS are so highly recommended. Asus mainly due to their tablets and how quickly they update them.
Sony/SE seemed to be heading the right way last year, but this year we've had 3 bits of bad news from them.
1st was how they announced that the ICS upgrade for 2011 Xperias wouldnt be that good, remember that statement? Left a very bad impression on many.
2nd was the company's latest flagship, Xperia S, coming with an old CPU and old Android version that will be updated later than older models.
3rd is now this, one of last year's flagships missing the update they promised.
Its like that song "One step forward and Two steps back".
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Bonovox
Joined: Apr 13, 2008
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Yeah maybe but as I said what is the future?? Are we gonna have to see even budget handsets with 1 gig RAM to make Android run properly?? Is future Android updates going to become so resource & power hungry that budget handsets will always suffer?? I am not talking about high end & Samsung's high end that's not the point.
Phone?? What phone?? |
Tsepz_GP
Joined: Dec 27, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: Johannesburg, South Africa
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At some point, Yes, even low end phones will require 1GB RAM. Do they need that for ICS? No, not if they code their custom UIs correctly. The Nexus S runs ICS 4.0.4 beautifuly, thats a phone running on 2yearold hardware with 512mb RAM.
RAM requirements will go up at some point though, even Symbian's RAM requirements are now up at 512mb, with phones like the N8, C7, C6-01, and E7 not even getting Belle FP1 due to them having 256mb RAM.
The current minimum in Android now seems to be 512mb, then mid range come with 768mb RAM and the mid to high end have 1GB, and LG recently brought in 2GB.
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Bonovox
Joined: Apr 13, 2008
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Yes. Amazing to think SE once released the x8 with 168mb ram  I think Google may just soon have to stress a minimum RAM. Even Samsung made the mistake with the Galaxy Ace RAM
Phone?? What phone?? |
Tsepz_GP
Joined: Dec 27, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: Johannesburg, South Africa
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i cannot believe they both thought they could get away with giving such paltry RAM to an Android smartphone, the Ace was the worst offender at 150mb RAM, shocking stuff, even the very 1st Android, the G1 aka HTC Dream had more than that at 190mb RAM.
Explains why Sammy went all out with the Galaxy Ace2, giving it 768mb RAM, its a huge jump from the 1st Ace.
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Bonovox
Joined: Apr 13, 2008
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It shows also that HTC Sense is a heavy resource on RAM. When I had the HTC One V which was a great phone except for browsing which lagged. When I was only using the browser nothing else the ram went down to 89mb. And that phone is ICS
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razec
Joined: Aug 20, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: Mars
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On 2012-05-27 02:54:00, Bonovox wrote:
It shows also that HTC Sense is a heavy resource on RAM. When I had the HTC One V which was a great phone except for browsing which lagged. When I was only using the browser nothing else the ram went down to 89mb. And that phone is ICS
This is what makes me worried with Desire C's 512MB RAM, ICS is more GPU dependent therefore more RAM consumed for rendering, we have that HTC's bloat running on background which as you said is also RAM hungry. honestly speaking after Google released ICS, I think all custom UIs became pointless that the only thing OEMs should concentrate is to produce special apps that will differentiate them from others. Tapioca's low RAM has me worried as well, but I think SE's custom UI isn't as bloated as HTC Sense. Desire C and Tapioca could've addressed the 512MB issue by reducing the phone screen resolution but the custom UI comes as the next headache.
and @Djin, I'm pretty sure ICS is more GPU RAM heavy rather than GPU Shader heavy, so even the ancient Adreno 200 could run it fluidly as long as it doesn't run out of graphics storage.
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Bonovox
Joined: Apr 13, 2008
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When I had the Nexus S that was really smooth with no bloatware. Android should do what Windows does just have individual apps to set apart different manufacturers to stop this fragmentation and confusing overly bloated system over Android. Luckily on my Xperia U Sony now allows you to remove almost all their apps. Which I did and I now have less crap in the background as I never use many of their apps pre installed. Only time will tell. Goodnight 
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Posted: 2012-05-26 11:29
