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Esato members welcome Windows Mobile! |
Creid
Joined: May 13, 2007
Posts: 160
From: UK
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my plan - Get X1 asap (rang o2 every day for a month now!) then get SEs' first SF beast. happy days
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groovepeppy
Joined: Dec 05, 2007
Posts: > 500
From: Parijs van Java, Indonesia
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Just like the title says,
"Warm Welcome to Windows Mobile !"
Yaaaaay......
Black Sensation Z710e - Black Apollo 9360 |
Supa_Fly
Joined: Apr 16, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: Toronto, Ontario
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I think Max is criticism Symbian Foundation long before its even had a start.
many fail to realise why S60 and Symbian have had such strength on the worldwide stage for so long. Many have said its former iterations was its greatest weakness; fragmentation - or varying API's and GUI's. This being unified and applications being supported and eventually being recoded to embrace the new change actually give it its strength. UIQ although pronounced 'officially' dead with SE - we've all seen it pronounced dead for years really, it did have some greatness and efficient menu's that'll augment an already strong OS and refine - what I think is a horrible menu GUI in S60 5th Edition for touch - not the entire menu; just its implementation for Touch bothers me.
Just remember UIQ and S60 are not the ONLY Symbian based platforms; there are another 3 that are lesser known but just as signifant or more significant because of the languages and interfaces they support > more strongly with than WM.
Sure I cannot get unique emulators or old platform support like AS/400/600 for 3250/3270 session interface - but many company's that still use these for support in Internet Explorer via Java (not Microsoft Java), don't support direct emulation connection for single applications on WM.
WM greatest strength is compatibility with old emulation and application code base - is also its greatest weakness from a coders standpoint. WM7 should've debuted earlier this year and again delayed. Licensing hasn't gotten cheaper to use WM but also, coding for applications isn't too tough either. Unless you being using Microsoft newer .NET. Not ALL of these WM devices in the past few years WM 6/6.1 based can use .NET installations/hacks and access applications or sites that rely heavily on this code.
Now I'm sure many of you can come up with intelligent rebuttals of what S60 cannot do either (remember Python, Ruby, C++, and Flash are all codes it supports for applications). I'm just stating this for WM.
Now I'm hoping SE doesn't get screwed with its innovations like Sony did with Palm OS just 6yrs ago. Those of us old enough and in the 'device' game long enough know to what I'm refering to. Or was it longer than 6yrs ago.
 has already officially stated that their investigating Andriod - to which currently I care nothing for - and committed to both WM and Symbian Foundation to which long ago I hoped S60 or UIQ would debut on this Xperia type device or similarly spec'd device.
The REAL question is ... how many more unique design's does have up its sleave and can they fully compete with HTC without having HTC build their devices for them taking some of their R&D dollars away.
|AppleTV2|iPhone 12Mini 256GB|iPad Pro 256GB| Previously ...  K750|Z500|Z520|K700|K790i|K850i, :Ericsson: T18z|T28World|T36m x3|T68m (Ericsson, not the rebranded T68i). |
jalal
Joined: Sep 04, 2002
Posts: 255
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I never thought I'd want a Windows anything. Now I'm lusting over this phone. |
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Australia
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I'm not criticising at all. I'm just saying Nokia could end up controlling the symbian foundation to it's own benefit. This would give them an unfair advantage as they could direct SF development to suit their own choice of hardware (and contracts with hardware vendors) and OS designs that suit their own idea of what the end user wants.
SE in the past have demonstrated great resistance to being locked into proprietary arrangements.
IF the Symbian Foundation develops the way Nokia's current hyperbole indicates, then hope remains that SE and other OEM's will end up with a true collaborative OS venture. If not they could end up having Nokia dictate the playing field and the direction of play (with SE and other OEM's facing into the sun). This would bring about a homogenisation of handset design across the industry that would mean less choice for the end user, and ultimately less innovation.
So imho I encourage SE to remain committed to doing things their own way as much as possible. If having WM in their stable helps them retain some independence of the Symbian Foundation this is a good thing.
It's not that being reliant on Bill Gates is much better but it wi;ll give SE some leverage against SF.
If SF turns out to be truly open source, and SE can develop the core OS to their own needs, then I expect SE will fully embace SF and we will certainly end up with UIQ II (second era). It may have a different name, but I expect many of the philosophies of UIQ will be retained.
What I don't expect will happen is for SE to use an OS that effectively mimicks with very little difference the same OS and end user features of the Nokia branded version of the SF OS. And I will add this quote to my promised "I'm not as smart as a fifth grader" thread they do 
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anonymuser
Joined: Dec 17, 2002
Posts: > 500
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I think the timing of SE's move to WM is a little odd. There's no mistaking the fact that for all its strengths, WM in its current form is ageing badly, and in dire need of an update. While its benefitted from some of the associated glamour of being touchscreen based in this post-iPhone world, it also looks and feels old in comparison. At the same time, we have all-new developments in the form of Android, and Nokia's S60 Touch (or should that simply be Symbian Touch?), Blackberry's new touch enabled OS, and major hardware leaps expected in the next year with whole new generation of mobile processors becoming available - it really makes you wonder whether the X1 is the start of a long "WM SE" line, or just a one-off to fill the gap left between the death of UIQ, and whichever direction SE take next.
Personally, I think the X1 is something of a dead end. Although it may be all new to SE and typical SE consumers, the technology (and the OS) of the X1 is really just a small evolution at the end of a very long and fading line, which can be traced right back in a pretty straight line to the first Pocket PCs. That whole architecture has to change if it's to be at all competitive with the much newer thinking at the core of the iPhone and its ilk, and Microsoft are well aware of that, but they're also pushing back the release of WM7, giving Apple, Google, and the rest much more time to overtake.
SE know the X1 isn't going to look shiny and new for much longer; they need to be working on its replacement already, but without any sign of WM7 to run on it...
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mobman
Joined: Sep 23, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Manchester UK
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boo hissss! Get out of our WinMo forum! Your not welcome here! Iphone fanboy! boo hisss!
:mobman backs Boinng out of the door using a broom:
[ This Message was edited by: mobman on 2008-10-29 19:35 ] |
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Australia
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He is just as entitled as anyhone to post his opinion. I don't always agree with Boinng but he is a valuable contributor to discussions around Esato. Please don't discourage contribution 
@boinng, the questions is will MS keep just enough development on WM to keep it a viable player in the phone OS market. I think the strong app support that WM has, and the strong though small following it has, will keep it viable even if it's always behind iphone in terms of flashiness of interface. WM is clunky compared to iphone, and even compared to s60. But it also has a charm to it that many people do like.
There is also the undeniable appeal to windows users of the "somewhat" familiar interface. And Windows users are a MASSIVE chunk of the computer market.
I agree with your appraisal of the different OS's, but I think WM survival doesn't only come down to black and white analysis of what the best OS is, but also to the more emotional appeal it has for many.
However, that emotional appeal, while helping WM survive, will also consign WM to the same limited marketshare it has now. If MS wants WM to become as common as Symbian, they need to seriously address some of the usability issues of WM (for example, native finger touch)
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Residentevil
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Raccoon City, USA
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As I used a WM device over two years ago for a short time I was not enjoying it very much. But I am open to a new try with the X1 when it will be available here in the US. I hope it is highly customizable with themes and icons. I just need those colours.
Tough times don't last, tough people do!
Free Tibet |
ofiaich
Joined: Nov 12, 2001
Posts: > 500
From: East Yorkshire, England
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Hi!
I am a TyTn II user and will get either the X1 or the HD Touch HD.
I like my TyTn II very much, but wish the battery life was better.
I was wondering what people felt their must have apps' are !
Ofiaich
esato since Nov, 12, 2001  |
anonymuser
Joined: Dec 17, 2002
Posts: > 500
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On 2008-10-29 20:34:46, mobman wrote:
boo hissss! Get out of our WinMo forum! Your not welcome here! Iphone fanboy! boo hisss!
The funny thing is, a year ago I ditched SE and "welcomed" Windows Mobile to Esato when I got an HTC Tytn II, I was immediately labelled a WinMo fanboy! Now I'm getting flack on Esato for not loving WM so much - strange times!
At the end of the day, unlike some of you I've been using WM for a full year in a phone not a million miles away from the X1 (same OEM, same form factor, similar processor, same connectivity, exact same WM version), and I'm very familiar with both its good and bad qualities, so I'm not really a fanboy of anything either way. Yes I have an iPhone now, we're both very happy together and we may be getting married, but that doesn't mean to say I'm blind to what's good about good old WinMo.
WinMo is a great business OS. If you work with an Exchange calendar and email, there's no better client for it (the iPhone does the basics in a very pleasing way, but there are definitely some compromises involved). Having Word and Excel built in can be invaluable for work too, and all told WinMo is the perfect companion to a Windows based work PC or network. But - and here's the big but - it always comes with some pain attached. The UI - the real UI beneath the Panels, or TouchFlo, or whatever other eye-candy the OEMs use to distract you at the start - really does get infuriating after a while - so fiddly, so inconsistent, so ugly - it does the job, but you won't thank it for it.
If you make the effort - and WinMo requires effort - then it will do an awful lot for you, and it won't be too unreliable or too slow... but it all becomes pretty joyless after a while. The effort starts to wear thin, the returns don't quite cover it anymore - that was my experience.
I'm not going to bang on about the iPhone, but I will say it's foundation - the speed, efficiency, and quality of that interface and the OS powering it - is in a very different league to WinMo. I'm sure that similar is true of Android, and that Symbian will also be working hard to pull themselves up by their 90's bootstraps and not be left behind. Microsoft, meanwhile, I'm sure are trading on that "emotional" commitment of their customers to some extent - the ubiquity of Windows, and the massive userbase WM has built up in the states especially - and of course that's not going to dissapear tomorrow. But equally I don't think that's going to help the consumer, and ultimately people will vote with their feet.
The iPhone has the flashier interface, but as time goes on it's not the interface that Apple are developing, but the feature set. If you look at what Apple added in 2.0, and then imagine what treats 3.0 might hold next year, you can really see WM's big feature-set advantage ebbing away to nothing - while WM meanwhile requires an almost complete rewrite to compete with that original iPhone flashiness, or speed, or power efficiency, etc...
[ This Message was edited by: Boinng on 2008-10-30 12:23 ] |
mobman
Joined: Sep 23, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Manchester UK
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@Max @boinng
Hopefully i put enough winking faces at the end of my post to show i was only joking?
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max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Australia
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No worries then, my bad. A winking smiley simply cannot cover the range of human expression of an ACTUAL human face. All is  m8
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[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2008-10-30 23:10 ] |
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Australia
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I hold out some hope that WM7 will have a little bit of innovation, but imho it's not something Bill is renowned for. He's more of a plodder. But he's richer than Jobs, so maybe he's not so dumb?
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Access the forum with a mobile phone via esato.mobi
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Posted: 2008-10-28 17:57
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