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Shouldn't Greeks and Turks have peace? |
KingBooker5
Joined: May 12, 2007
Posts: > 500
From: London, England
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Hi Greeks and Turks.
For thousands of years the Greeks and the Turks have had countless wars and come under control by each others empires etc. After Cyprus and the Ottomans it has become really heated. I know that the Turks them selves are nice people. One of my best mates is Turk, and im a Greek Cypriot!
Although we have our problems with eachothers governments, shouldnt we have peace? We are all Gods children arnt we?
At the end of the day, we are neighbours! We should treat eachother like brothers not kill each other etc.
So should this be the Greek and Turk peace thread? Any Greek or Truk agree? Or am I an idiot? | |
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Sammy_boy
Joined: Mar 31, 2004
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From: Staffordshire, United Kingdom
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I thought relations between turks and greeks were more relaxed now? I've not heard of any tensions in that part of the world for a while now, or are they still simmering below the surface? |
Memzee
Joined: Feb 22, 2004
Posts: 399
From: London, UK.
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There will never be peace until the brain washing and influence of the Orthodox church in politics is stopped.
People are still bitter on both sides, which is fair enough, but it sickens me how even little kids that have never met or seen anyone of the 'opposition' can have such hatred instilled in them. I have to say I've mainly seen that in Greek Cypriots, but I've noticed that Turkish Cypriots are willing to sell their souls just to get into the EU because they think it'll solve everything, (which it won't). |
KingBooker5
Joined: May 12, 2007
Posts: > 500
From: London, England
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On 2007-09-29 20:06:57, Memzee wrote:
There will never be peace until the brain washing and influence of the Orthodox church in politics is stopped.
People are still bitter on both sides, which is fair enough, but it sickens me how even little kids that have never met or seen anyone of the 'opposition' can have such hatred instilled in them. I have to say I've mainly seen that in Greek Cypriots, but I've noticed that Turkish Cypriots are willing to sell their souls just to get into the EU because they think it'll solve everything, (which it won't).
Sorry mate but I have to argue about that. But Greek Cypriots have every right to have hatred. A huge country invaded the north part of your country and killed thousands of your own people, then put there countries flag on a mountain on the border to humiliate you. What the hell do you expect? Greek Cypriots have every right to have hatred. Wouldnt you? A tiny island attacked by a huge country. Put your self in there shoes, dont tell me you wouldnt be angry. When I went to Nicosia, to visit some family and I saw the Turkish flag on the mountain, I was shocked and upset. I was cursing asking my self if that was a f*cking joke, a straight up yours to the Greeks. But at the same time, I thought, why cant there be peace? The majority of Turks are very freindly people
[ This Message was edited by: KingBooker5 on 2007-09-29 20:33 ] |
lastikcizme
Joined: Oct 05, 2006
Posts: 227
From: Turkiye
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@KingBooker, please, you open up a peace thread, and now you're justifying hatred? Don't tell me you're anaware of EOKA's massacre against Greek and Turkish Cypriots, and even against the British.
After EOKA committed the first mass-murders of Turkish Cypriots, a treaty was made with UN support, with Turkiye and Britain commissioned as guaranteer countries. When murders restarted, Turkiye called for action to be taken according to this treaty, but Britain didn't intervene, so Turkiye had to take actions.
Turkiye's intervention in Cyprus is because of the ENOSIS activities and systematic genocide of Turkish Cypriots. Blame Makarios and the like about the issue.
Having said that, Greeks and Turks don't have problems anymore, as far as i believe. We helped each other during the earthquake disaster, and other natural disasters and events.
[ This Message was edited by: lastikcizme on 2007-09-30 10:22 ] |
Memzee
Joined: Feb 22, 2004
Posts: 399
From: London, UK.
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@ KingBooker5
Oh please, you just demonstrated my point. The propaganda spewed out by the church has brainwashed and misinformed.
Cyprus has been termed 'the whore of the mediterranean' as it has been occupied by several civilisations over the centuries, Venetians, Byzantine, Ottomon etc.
The truth is that Cyprus was 'leased' to the British by the Ottoman Empire as it was collapsing and just able to sustain itself. EOKA and ENOSIS then came about in the 1950's and tried to unify Cyprus with Greece first by removing the British presence. This is a well documented fact, although grossly overlooked because it's alot more convenient for Greeks to say "yeah well the Turks came and invaded our country".
Turkey came and rescued the endogenous Turkish Cypriot population from certain massacre/genocide at the hands of the facist military guerilla known as EOKA. There was no invasion, the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus was established and a boundary formed in 1976 to prevent this ethnic cleansing from occurring, assisted by the presence of the Turkish army. It is only down to clever politics from Greece with trade embargoes etc. that the republic is not officially recognised by many countries to date.
There were severe casualties on both sides; with people losing friends and having to relocate on both sides. The sad fact is that, had EOKA not taken a pollitical issue into their own hands and started taking casualties, Turks and Greeks would probably still be living in harmony.
There have been talks of Cyprus going back to how it used to be, with Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots mixing again, but the Turkish army has been reluctant to do so for fear of killings starting up again.
The population is free to move over the border now which I guess is a step in the right direction, but as I said before, and as demonstrated by the referendum last year I think it was: the Turkish Cypriot community see lifting the borders as a route into the EU and money. The Greek Cypriot community were expected to say Yes to the referendum and voted overwhelmingly in favour of No. Funny how the Orthodox church did a sudden U-turn just before and the rest followed like sheep.
Religion has no place in politics IMO, and until that is the case there will never be peace in Cyprus.. or Israel/Palestine for that matter.
[ This Message was edited by: Memzee on 2007-09-30 15:20 ] |
KingBooker5
Joined: May 12, 2007
Posts: > 500
From: London, England
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On 2007-09-30 16:18:19, Memzee wrote:
@ KingBooker5
Oh please, you just demonstrated my point. The propaganda spewed out by the church has brainwashed and misinformed.
Cyprus has been termed 'the whore of the mediterranean' as it has been occupied by several civilisations over the centuries, Venetians, Byzantine, Ottomon etc.
The truth is that Cyprus was 'leased' to the British by the Ottoman Empire as it was collapsing and just able to sustain itself. EOKA and ENOSIS then came about in the 1950's and tried to unify Cyprus with Greece first by removing the British presence. This is a well documented fact, although grossly overlooked because it's alot more convenient for Greeks to say "yeah well the Turks came and invaded our country".
Turkey came and rescued the endogenous Turkish Cypriot population from certain massacre/genocide at the hands of the facist military guerilla known as EOKA. There was no invasion, the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus was established and a boundary formed in 1976 to prevent this ethnic cleansing from occurring, assisted by the presence of the Turkish army. It is only down to clever politics from Greece with trade embargoes etc. that the republic is not officially recognised by many countries to date.
There were severe casualties on both sides; with people losing friends and having to relocate on both sides. The sad fact is that, had EOKA not taken a pollitical issue into their own hands and started taking casualties, Turks and Greeks would probably still be living in harmony.
There have been talks of Cyprus going back to how it used to be, with Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots mixing again, but the Turkish army has been reluctant to do so for fear of killings starting up again.
The population is free to move over the border now which I guess is a step in the right direction, but as I said before, and as demonstrated by the referendum last year I think it was: the Turkish Cypriot community see lifting the borders as a route into the EU and money. The Greek Cypriot community were expected to say Yes to the referendum and voted overwhelmingly in favour of No. Funny how the Orthodox church did a sudden U-turn just before and the rest followed like sheep.
Religion has no place in politics IMO, and until that is the case there will never be peace in Cyprus.. or Israel/Palestine for that matter.
[ This Message was edited by: Memzee on 2007-09-30 15:20 ]
Your missing the point. What you say maybe true, but if your going to talk a about the politics between cyprus and turkey open a seperate thread, this is about peace between turks and greeks |
Memzee
Joined: Feb 22, 2004
Posts: 399
From: London, UK.
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Well no actually I'm not, I'm explaining why there won't be peace anytime soon, and you have helped demonstrate why.
I'm not disputing the fact that there should be peace, because peace is always going to be a more preferable outcome than war. At the end of the day, the only real difference between Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots is religion - they have more in common in terms of food, music, culture etc. than they do to either of their respective 'mother nations'.
[ This Message was edited by: Memzee on 2007-09-30 20:05 ] |
lastikcizme
Joined: Oct 05, 2006
Posts: 227
From: Turkiye
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That's all imperialist politics which makes nations quarrel and hate each other. Should we join our forces, Greece and Turkiye would be the ultimate authority on this region of the world. That's what the imperialists are so scared of.
We have so much in common, yet they managed to make us enemies. But i believe the tide is turning, and when it does, both nations will prosper beyond their dreams. Imperialism can not run the show forever. |
KingBooker5
Joined: May 12, 2007
Posts: > 500
From: London, England
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On 2007-09-30 22:31:32, lastikcizme wrote:
That's all imperialist politics which makes nations quarrel and hate each other. Should we join our forces, Greece and Turkiye would be the ultimate authority on this region of the world. That's what the imperialists are so scared of.
We have so much in common, yet they managed to make us enemies. But i believe the tide is turning, and when it does, both nations will prosper beyond their dreams. Imperialism can not run the show forever.
I hope its true |
lastikcizme
Joined: Oct 05, 2006
Posts: 227
From: Turkiye
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I believe it sincerely. It's about time we throw them off our backs (That's how the saying goes isn't it?). Because we have so much in common..
So, KingBooker, have you ever been to Turkiye? Opinions please?? I've never been abroad, but i would like to see Greece, Italy and America.
There are not so many active Turkish members here in esato (And neither do Greek member as far as it looks), so all you have here is me!! Though luck  |
KingBooker5
Joined: May 12, 2007
Posts: > 500
From: London, England
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On 2007-10-02 18:59:28, lastikcizme wrote:
I believe it sincerely. It's about time we throw them off our backs (That's how the saying goes isn't it?). Because we have so much in common..
So, KingBooker, have you ever been to Turkiye? Opinions please?? I've never been abroad, but i would like to see Greece, Italy and America.
There are not so many active Turkish members here in esato (And neither do Greek member as far as it looks), so all you have here is me!! Though luck
I have actualy have I went to Istanbul in November a few years ago. Its a nice place, was a bit chilly though. One of the museums looked really cool, it was originaly some Ottoman palace (I think anyway) they have now made it to a museum. Had a very big dome. Very fine peace of Ottoman enginiring |
lastikcizme
Joined: Oct 05, 2006
Posts: 227
From: Turkiye
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Man, that's challenging, i wonder which museum it was?
November is not really the best time to visit Istanbul though. I would recommend sightseeing in autumn, but most people would prefer to go to Bodrum or other places South of Turkiye for enjoying beach and last warm days of the year. |
Mesow
Joined: May 08, 2008
Posts: 0
From: Greece/Palestine
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Hi Guys,
I'm Greek, also Palestinian! That means I live the 2 situations!
Well, here in Palestine, all of the people hate Israel, Jews, Zionism, EU, USA and all the western civilization, BUT.. actually with Israel, we trade, we buy everything from Israel, almost everything, we can even speak Hebrew!
I dont know the how's the situation now in Greece, but I think peace is the most important thing, and I think hatred and hostility from the two sides is made by political and historical issues that don't actually concern us! and the close-minded old generations are a foctor of hostility too, I think.
But I have to say that the thing called "brainwash" is all false. The Orthodhox church doesn't do anything about that, it's how the new generations are raised, like, a human is like a piece of pottery, you can teach and learn him/her their lifestyle or how they think when they are kids, when they're old, you can't re-shape their thoughts, so it's depending on the parents and the older generation which somehow I think it's close minded, but there are minorities that are not close minded of course, like my parents, they tought me that Turkey is so beautiful, Cyprus is so beautiful, they did NOT tell me about TCs until I was 13 and I asked them about it when I saw it on the net!
I also visited Turkey and I can tell that Turkey is like a heaven, also Greece.
So, my main point, why not we just take the GOOD thoughts from our parents and leave the BAD ones for them?!
What did new generations of Turks, Greeks, GCs and TCs do?
We all know its NOTHING!
So why hatred?!
No Reason! It's just a thing to do when we're bored!
Peace is the only solution, not non-sense!
Dont let the politics effect the people's realtionships because it's less than %1 of the people are politicans! The others have no guilt! |
bart
Joined: Feb 03, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: Flanders
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Their will never be peace and can never be peace as long as their are turks.
Might sound hard but its the truth. Don't blaim the westren religion for that, because less and less people are religues in Greeq and EU. Muslims on the other hand will always hate us. Even if they pretend to be nice when we visit their country's, all they think about is our money.
When looking at Cyprus i'm getting a view of the future of Flanders (belgium) and the Netherlands. 2 country's that are being overrun by muslims. And thx to the left minded EU a muslims is treated like a king overhere.
Cyprus should be free, those foreign invaders don't belong their.
They aren't all bad people, but most of them our.
If Turkey would be allowed to join the EU then Greeq and many other country's will have fallen, just like mine and some others.
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Posted: 2007-09-29 18:47
