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K800 - Not really a 3mp camera |
Kimi
Joined: Nov 21, 2001
Posts: 293
From: Switzerland
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I see two issues with these images:
1. compression: the 3MP image definitely shows signs if typical jpeg compression artefacts. See the "hollow" area around most of the darker, diagonal lines. Because of the nature of the jpeg algorithm it doesn't work linear with increasing size of an image. 3MP is 50% more pixels, but will need about 60% more filesize to get the same quality result. For 3MP a decent quality image should have at least about 1.2MByte of size!
I don't know the average sizes for pictures of the K750 and the K800. For my W880 the average image size is around 350kByte. That's already too low and the images often show signs of jpeg compression artefacts.
2. autofocus: To me it looks like the cam is out of focus. I don't know the range of the autofocus mechanism in the K800 but maybe it's different from the K750.
Did you take the images by placing the phone on stable ground? Also the EXIF information of both the images would be interesting...
[ This Message was edited by: Kimi on 2007-06-05 08:01 ] |
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xan K
Joined: Jun 15, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: Republica Dominicana
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I should also say that the compression on K800 phones is crap. The sad thing is that there's never been an upgrade to the camera version since the original release firmware. It's like  can't do nothing about it. for k750 there were many updates to the camera version in the firmware updates, why isn't it the case for k800s?
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plankgatan
Joined: May 20, 2007
Posts: > 500
From: Sweden fur alle
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kimi. its a god dame cell phone.
k800/k810 have one of the best cameras of all cell phones on the market just now.
by the way, my pics dosent contain any "holes" or any diagonal lines. i get really good, stable photos, with good sharpness and colors, what more can i ask for. like i said, its a cell phone.
can you see any holes or lines on this pics ? (have of course more pics with same quality).
[ This Message was edited by: plankgatan on 2007-06-07 03:06 ] |
soane28
Joined: Jun 12, 2006
Posts: 401
From: NZ
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would be nice to see those pics in full resolution - anyone could resize their pics and they will look great. |
mongoose3800
Joined: Nov 29, 2005
Posts: 416
From: Australia
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Yes, it would be nice to see those photo's in full size. But, I can still see imperfections in the reduced images. i.e. in the first image I see the jagged effect on the bottom window ledges, the white horizontal lines in the bottom two windows and the top of the bottom orange fencing. In the second image (the church) I see a very pronounced jagged effect on the ledge that runs across the middle of the front of the building and the horizontal ledge that runs under the roof. It's very obvious and proves my point. It ruins the picture. If you look hard enough at the branches in the last photo you'll also see the branches have a staired effect.
Yes it is a camera phone. But SE make a point of selling it on it's ability as a camera. If 2mp photos taken by a K800 or K750 look better than the 3mp photos there's something wrong. |
michka
Joined: May 17, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Brussels-Belgium
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Also, look at the edges of the staircase or the buildngs where they meet the sky: typical jpeg artifacts in the sky close to the edges, due to a too high compression ratio.
Pedestrian: don't run, my car is faster anyway. |
soane28
Joined: Jun 12, 2006
Posts: 401
From: NZ
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Just had a look at my photos taken with K800i and ive found exactly the same: jagged edges everywhere. I also checked my K750i photos and there is also jagged edges but not as obvious as the K800i. It would seem that the K800 camera was abit of a rush and its purpose was just to offer satisfactory quality untill they managed to develop a true quality camera module (rumoured 5 megapixel sofia) like the K750 was back in its time. |
mongoose3800
Joined: Nov 29, 2005
Posts: 416
From: Australia
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On 2007-06-07 05:19:20, soane28 wrote:
Just had a look at my photos taken with K800i and ive found exactly the same: jagged edges everywhere. I also checked my K750i photos and there is also jagged edges but not as obvious as the K800i. It would seem that the K800 camera was abit of a rush and its purpose was just to offer satisfactory quality untill they managed to develop a true quality camera module (rumoured 5 megapixel sofia) like the K750 was back in its time.
Thank god. I'm glad someone else can see this. For now I am only taking photos in 2mp mode as there is just no benefit in using 3mp mode. Yes, the K750/W800 photos have some jagged edges but no worse than any other digicam. The K800 on the otherhand is atrocious. I have sent an email to SE regarding this. It would be nice if they can address the issue. It would be nice if more people made noise about this to SE. I don't think anyone would mind a larger file size for the sake of quality. I still have my doubts about the actual sensor being 3mp. |
aremaboy
Joined: Nov 27, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Malang, Indonesia
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I still love my K800i. I'm not a professional photographer, and FYI, I just use my K800i to take 'simple' pictures, day to day snapshots and what it produces is more than enough. I do appreciate the technical analysis done by the OP of this thread, and I get a lot of knowledge out of it, as my reference to understand better about the phone. However, I am among those who love the phone and not bothered much about this issue. Everyone that sees my snapshots made by K800i always says: Wow..Once again, I represent the numerous end-users of the phone out there who just don't care much about the jagged edge or pixelated outline when being zoomed or who just lack of knowledge about how a good imaging should be. I do agree, a phone is just a phone. The camera embedded is just a plus factor. K800i may be an unpleasant move by SE, but when many people comment positively about it, the story goes smoothly then. Although we send emails and complain to SE, surely SE will advise you to fix the phone to a service centre or update the firmware. Besides, K800i life time almost ends as many new phones with better specs are just on the way. It's a bit late I'm afraid. And million K800i s have been sold across the globe and made the buyers experience compact phone with outstanding performance camera wise. Remember, how many of them are as technical as few people here. That's my point. |
plankgatan
Joined: May 20, 2007
Posts: > 500
From: Sweden fur alle
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(this is ridiculous), like i said, its a god dame cell phone. try to find a cell phone who takes better pics then this.
im very satisfied with the quality, i even print them out on my printer (use 10 x 15 / 17 x 22....looks really, really good).
ok, so where is this pics jagged ? (maybe some ultra small line, but hey, who cares, its a tiny cell phone camera. take a look at Nokias pics, they are not even close to this quality).
[ This Message was edited by: plankgatan on 2007-06-07 10:51 ] |
mongoose3800
Joined: Nov 29, 2005
Posts: 416
From: Australia
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Plankgatan:- I can't see anything obvious in your two photos. Well I can to a small degree – At full resolution it may stand out more.
I do get good photos as well. But I reckon they could and should be better. Sometimes I feel you have to try way to hard to get a good photo. Again, I do appreciate that it is only a camera phone. But when I upgraded from my W800 to a K800 I did so solely on it's ability to take better photos than the W800. I did so knowing the mp3 player was not as good as well. The whole idea of the camera on this phone is to be able to take acceptable quality photos anywhere you go. Well this isn't the case because too often when you look back at a photo it just doesn't look quite right. Not only is the jagged effect there just seems to be something unnatural about the edges on any object. If you are happy to accept this then good for you - but people who accept mediocre performance from products are the reason companies will continue to pump out half baked products and why they don’t fix problems like this. The simple fact, to me, is the K800 really hasn't lived up to my expectations – I expect it to be better than the previous product and live up to the manufacturers claim.
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soane28
Joined: Jun 12, 2006
Posts: 401
From: NZ
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Theres not much that can be done about it now - as mentioned, K800/k810 offers the best 3.2 megapixel quality from a camera phone even with bad artifacts. All i could suggest is think positively about the successor - if this is the best quality offered so far, think about how great the 5 megapixel cam quality will be. And realistically, you wont find better quality than from a company that makes good cameras (sony) rather than Nokia who use cheap cams and cover up the terrible quality with noise reduction and oversharpening, making the pics look much worse. |
tai020381
Joined: Dec 07, 2004
Posts: > 500
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Ok so lets put it this way. K800 took pictures with jagged edges when in full zoom. Then it still is one of the best camera phone around. Wouldn, t it make SE the more better in Photography segment than any other company? And I think by bringing this subject up, you have hit their point of showing us how good this camera can go even if it produced jagged edges when in view full zoom... Just imagine the company tuned its camera capabilities to its full potential...K850?
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antichrist
Joined: Sep 26, 2006
Posts: > 500
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imo, k800 "3.2 mp" is actually the k750's 2mp camera with different software...
that's why when shooting at 3.2mp 50% of my pics were blurry, taking a longer time to process
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JC08
Joined: Jan 07, 2007
Posts: 375
From: Vanderbijlpark, South Africa
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Geez people do u look at all your photos in the finest detail, i mean photos from a phone are meant for memories and if something extraordinary happens that u need to capture, then when u look at the photos u dont look at any jagged edges or lines come on its just for memories
Yad. Hey. Vav. Hey.
'' So the one who plants is not important, and the one who waters is not important. Only God who makes things grow, is important'' (1 Corinthians 3:7)
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It's not about me! |
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Posted: 2007-06-05 09:00
