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Finally got my Phone! Now I need help. ) |
ajape
Joined: Jul 12, 2005
Posts: 105
From: Santo Domingo
PM |
Well, after so many months of agony, I FINALLY came through enough of a windfall to allow me to get my hands on a K750i. It was an O2 branded black unit when it arrived, and it replaced my venerable K700 after too many months. Now, I need your help on some of the purchases that need to follow it and of course on a couple of technical issues. Let me start by telling what I have already done:
First thing I did, of course, was purchase a Davinci credit and upgrade to W800 using the included USB cable. Went flawless from the first time, most painless upgrade I've ever done to anything, and in my opinion the very best possible option as it gives you the best of both worlds: W800 functionality with K750 looks.
Next I went to Newegg and got me this for US$70 (65+5 SH):
Then I went to Ebay and got me the 3.5 Headphone adapter for US$10 total, so I can listen to my MP3s in the car via my normal cassette adapter or using any normal headphones I choose. So far so good.
But where I'm stuck in the purchasing department, apart from the other things I still don't know I need and I'm sure you'll tell me, is in the choice of Bluetooth Headset and phone case.Mind you, I already have a HBH-65 which needs urgent replacement, and the same ICE-25 case I used for the k700. The BT Headset I just plain don't know, I'm leaning towards the HBH-608, the Jabra BT-800 or the Plantronics 640. Your input on this is very needed. As to the case, no one can complain about the way the ICE-25 does the job, when I gave the k700 to my 15 year old son after almost a year of use he was completely convinced that it was indeed a brand new phone, so well it was kept by it. But... it's SOOO BULKY! I had a hard plastic SE translucent case/clip for my old T-68 that made it hug the belt and was so slim you could even wear a suit with it underneath, I'm wondering if you guys know of anything like that that you would recommend for the 750. Otherwise I'll have to keep going about the world looking like Bob the Builder, as I just plain WON'T carry my phone in my pocket with keys and coins and such, EVER.
Now, for the technical issues. After the W800 upgrade, I noticed immediately a serious decrease on the quality of the camera images, and also on the time it takes to focus and shoot. Specially under low-light conditions, the noise amount is unbereable to the point of making the cam on the phone useless. When I received it, I didn't know what firmware it had, but it definitely beat the snot out of this version on the camera issue. I'll post some pictures below so you can see. Is there any way to fix this?
Also, the video demo plays with a couple of stutters, is not as fluid as I imagine it must be. can it be my hardware? the video sound doesn't stop, but the image surely does stop and restart at about 3-4 second intervals for the duration of the demo. Is this normal or am I having a problem?
Now, the menus and such are kinda slow, I figured all updates should have made the phone faster, so why do I feel it slower than when I had it first?
And last but not least: the bluetooth speed is horrendously slow. It averages about 15kbps at most. This I KNOW can't be normal. What can I do to fix this?
Guys, thanks A LOT for taking the time to read all this and for all your help, Esato boards are like nothing else on the web. Thanks a lot.  | |
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ajape
Joined: Jul 12, 2005
Posts: 105
From: Santo Domingo
PM |
Ok, I resized the pictures to half their size to save you guys some bandwidth, but even at half size you can see how jagged the edges look and the lack of detail in these pictures taken with my new phone. Once again, thank you very much for all your input on this, guys, and please let me know what I can do to help my situation. This camera is the most important feature of the phone to me, if it can be fixed I might as well have stayed with my k700. 
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london-uk
Joined: Oct 01, 2003
Posts: 214
From: Londres
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You said: "...even at half size you can see how jagged the edges look and the lack of detail in these pictures taken with my new phone..."
In reply, I think the photos are pretty much on par for what you can expect from a 2 megapixel camera. They look similar in quality to what I have taken with the same hardware. I suggest you have a look here http://www.esato.com/board/viewtopic.php?topic=92330 for pics taken with the k750 or here http://www.esato.com/board/viewtopic.php?topic=101000 for pics taken with the w800.
[addsig] |
ajape
Joined: Jul 12, 2005
Posts: 105
From: Santo Domingo
PM |
You see that's exactly the thing... I must have looked a million times over the last few months at the pictures taken with k750s that were posted here on esato, and not once have I seen edges as jagged as those on my pics... did you see those balconies well enough? and no pictur posted here has had that much lack in detail, either... look at the trees on my pics and you'll see what I mean... looks like a very bad early 3d video game or something |
london-uk
Joined: Oct 01, 2003
Posts: 214
From: Londres
PM |
I see your point, but I still don't think your photos are sub-standard for a k750 (someone might have another opinion). As to the jagged balconies, I really can't see an issue. Have a look at this pic for comparison, I took it on the go (i.e. phone out of pocket and click, no setting up) do you also think it's bad for what you expected?
[addsig] |
ajape
Joined: Jul 12, 2005
Posts: 105
From: Santo Domingo
PM |
Well, looking at your picture I'd have to say no, mine does not look too different. I still think in your picture there's less jagged edges, but on the whole they look very much alike, and both lack A LOT of the detail I've seen on other users pictures. In your case it's more noticeable by the lack of definition on the pattern of the balcony rails, they should be much more discernible than they are in your pic. Maybe those rumours about users posting pics taken with digital cameras and passing them out as k750 pics have some truth in them, after all... Which would mean my expectations for the phone have been un-realistic all along. Pity. |
numb
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: > 500
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Theres been several threads lately concerning the same issues, ie. users expecting more from the camera than what it delivers (or rather what they as photographers are able to get out of it).
I dont think theres been that many digicam pictures posted as K750 pictures, Im usually good at spotting those. However most of the expectations are based on a combination of lack of knowledge and optimised pictures being posted.
Your pictures look just fine for a K750
About the detail and edges you speak off, I think your expectations are to high based on a mix of missing knowledge and comparing with pictures in different conditions. The focal length of the camera in K750 can only give clean sharp detailed pictures at up to approx 10meters distance, therefore you cannot get superdetailed sharp pictures of scenery with endless depth or great distance, and shouldent compare this type of pictures with more portraitlike pictures where the object in focus are within a few meters.
I dont think you are being fair in your comparison with the K700 cam, theres a world of difference between the K700 cam and the K750 cam, but you have to know the limitations of the cam to use it at its best. And its up to you to learn about how to take good pictures within these limitations. Within its limitations you can get exceptionally good pictures, for a mobilecam, but the limitations of the K750 cammodule in comparison with a real digicam is what makes the difference between them, and the reason why a 40$ mobile cammodule still cannot compete with a 200$ real digicam.
So Ill say to you like Ive said to other, read up on photography in general, learn the techniques, experiment with the K750 and learn its limitations. Then combining what youve learned about photographing techniques with what youve learned about the technical limitations of the K750 you will be able to make good pictures that meet your expectations.
But if you expect to simply be able to just point and click at anything, from any distance, under any condition and angle, light or dark, with shaky hands, etc. and the camera alone should then allways deliver great pictures, then your expectations are wrong. And would be for just about any camera.
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Dj Boyi
Joined: Oct 05, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: Liberty City
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I got one of these for my w800i,good price too
http://l8shop.net/Products/Kr[....]Sony_Ericsson_D750i_W800i.aspx
If nobody wants it.. put it on eBay. |
ajape
Joined: Jul 12, 2005
Posts: 105
From: Santo Domingo
PM |
Quote:
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On 2005-12-02 13:28:39, numb wrote:
I dont think you are being fair in your comparison with the K700 cam, theres a world of difference between the K700 cam and the K750 cam, but you have to know the limitations of the cam to use it at its best.
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I understand this to be so, yet the main reason I wanted the k750 was to avoid all the horrible noise and fuzziness of the k700 pics, and in this respect there hasn't been any improvement at all, you still need LOTS of light to make a picture look reasonable good, regardless of the distance. Take the picture below, for example...
I tried just about everything to make it look even remotely acceptable... this picture has night mode, light on, fluorescent lighting, etc and STILL isn't worth looking at! I just took it right now in my office, wich is fairly bright and very well lit by fluorescent lighting, and this is about as good as it gets! Is THIS really all I can expect from this phone???? I've read somewhere that suppossedly there's a 5.0 camera software version arriving soon to address these issues?
[ This Message was edited by: ajape on 2005-12-03 03:31 ] |
ajape
Joined: Jul 12, 2005
Posts: 105
From: Santo Domingo
PM |
Boyi that cover looks very good, and it's definitely a choice. Thing is, I'd really rather have something in hard plastic to protect my phone, if at all possible... more like a plastic belt clip that would hug its sides and corners and not allow the phone to crack if it fell... I don't know that I'm explaining myself well enough, lol |
numb
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: > 500
PM |
I agree that in low light conditions you cannot get good sharp noisefree pictures. But my 400$ cannon digicam cant either unless I use its onboard flash. And thats why theres an accessory flash you can buy for the phone. The photolight on the phone is not enough light to lit up an entire room, but good enough to lit up very close objects.
heres an example taken in a very dark room
A future firmware may improve on this, but it cannot perform miracles. Indoor artificial lowlight is never good for taking pictures without using flash. On any camera. Indoor pictures needs either a real flash or enough artificial lighting to allmost simulate full daylight.
Heres another example of an indoor shot where the amount of artificial lighting was enough to give a good shot.
To sum up, you allways need alot of light, preferably daylight, or artificial light powerfull enough to fully lit up the environment as if it was daylight, or enough light focused specifically on the object you want to photograph. To get noisefree pictures you need a low iso value, if the overall environment is lowlight the camera will try to compensate for that by setting a high iso value to let in as much overall light as possible. This increases noise, and force you to keep a very steady hand to keep the picture sharp because the shutter is open longer. Using nighmode further increase iso value and shutter open time, and makes it very difficult to keep a steady hand. Best is to use something like a tripod or place the camera on a fixed point like a table when taking the picture (if possible)
The purpose of a good flash is exactly to overcome the above, by giving lots of light when the picture is taken, the iso value is decreased and the shuttertime is also decreased, thus there will be no noise and the picture will be sharp.
Your room may have seemed well lit to your eyes, but the camera sees differently, and the room wasnt well lit enough for the camera to take a good, clean shot using a low iso value. It needed the shutter to be open longer giving a high iso value, and a "poor" picture.
I know none of this really helps the situation, but I hope it may give a litle explanation to why you cant allways get good indoor shots. Neither with the K750 or most other cameras. Some cameras may be optimised to give better pictures under these low light conditions, but then may not give as good pictures under perfect conditions. Others may have lenses and software advanced enough to take good pictures under all types of conditions, but then we are talking expensive, advanced digicams. Cheap mobile cam modules are not advanced enough, neither in terms of hardware nor software to do this. For those its a compromize where you try to find the best overall sollution. An example is the Nokia N90, its optimised in a way that it take better lowlight pictures than K750, but take poorer pictures than K750 in perfect daylight conditions.
So yes, in terms of taking low light pictures its not much better than a k700 or other mobile cams, except for the higher resolution, but as soon as there is enough light for the camera to fully deliver, its way way better.
[ This Message was edited by: numb on 2005-12-03 11:48 ] |
optiplex
Joined: Nov 23, 2005
Posts: 220
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I myself felt the same way when I first took some photos under low light conditions. But after reading and doing some research it made me realize that the quality of the K750 camera is fairly good. I even compared photos taken with an old Samsung 1.8MP digital camera and I have to say that K750 photos are quite good if not better especially in daylight (mind you that Samsung camera is very old, a midrange model but still it was around $300 back then).
Now compare K750 photos with a Nokia 6680 or similar model (same price range) and you would see that K750 photos are far better, it is even arguable that the K750 camera is better than the $1000 Nokia N90’s 2MP camera. So in that sense there is nothing much to complain. You’ve got the best camera phone in the market at the moment.
You can use noise filters to get rid of the grains from night shots. NeatImage is what I use and it produces some nice clean photos.
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ajape
Joined: Jul 12, 2005
Posts: 105
From: Santo Domingo
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Quote:
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You can use noise filters to get rid of the grains from night shots. NeatImage is what I use and it produces some nice clean photos.
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What do you mean? is that a software to download on the phone to make it perform better or is it just a post-processing program? |
optiplex
Joined: Nov 23, 2005
Posts: 220
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Neat Image is a program that runs on PC, it is meant to remove noise and enhance digital photographs. It won’t take much time to filter out noise and you can batch process images so using it is not a hassle at all. Most of the photos taken with a K750 posted in this site and in other review sites are noise filtered ones, because grains in a low light shot is unavoidable.
Links : Neat Image , Noise Ware. Do a search and you’ll find many more.
[ This Message was edited by: optiplex on 2005-12-04 03:04 ] |
ajape
Joined: Jul 12, 2005
Posts: 105
From: Santo Domingo
PM |
I've been using Noiseware, and I'm currently very happy with the results, specially conidering it's FREE. Oh! And by the way, the latest firmware has done WONDERS for my K750's cam, I find myself taking pictures all the time now!!!! | |
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Posted: 2005-12-01 23:54
