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so who is religous here? |
PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
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Have you read all that or just copied it. by the way that was all written by a non muslim so thats that.
More Biblical mistakes:
Who killed Jesus, Jews or Gentiles?
Jesus prophesied that he would be killed by Gentiles:
(Mat 20:18-19 NIV) "We are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be betrayed to the chief priests and the teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death {19} and will turn him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified. On the third day he will be raised to life!"
(Mark 10:33 NIV) "We are going up to Jerusalem," he said, "and the Son of Man will be betrayed to the chief priests and teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death and will hand him over to the Gentiles,
(Luke 18:31-33 NIV) Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, "We are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled. {32} He will be handed over to the Gentiles. They will mock him, insult him, spit on him, flog him and kill him. {33} On the third day he will rise again."
Here, according to McKinsey, Jesus is killed by Jews:
(John 19:14-18 NIV) It was the day of Preparation of Passover Week, about the sixth hour. "Here is your king," Pilate said to the Jews. {15} But they shouted, "Take him away! Take him away! Crucify him!" "Shall I crucify your king?" Pilate asked. "We have no king but Caesar," the chief priests answered. {16} Finally Pilate handed him over to them to be crucified. So the soldiers took charge of Jesus. {17} Carrying his own cross, he went out to the place of the Skull (which in Aramaic is called Golgotha). {18} Here they crucified him, and with him two others--one on each side and Jesus in the middle.
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PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
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Dr Zakir Naik v Dr Wiliam Cambell.
Download the Mp3 HERE. This has answers and questions on Christianity and Islam and shows that the bible has many mistakes and Dr William Cambell had no Answers even though he is a Bible dr.
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pleber
Joined: Jul 22, 2003
Posts: 200
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@PeterKay
These verses do not contradict each other! The Romans where the ones that killed Jesus at the insistence of the Jews. The Romans had the final say in the matter. But the Jews wanted Jesus to be killed so Pilot (the roman in charge) yielded to their wishes. The second quote you gave to prove Jesus was killed by the Jews clearly states "So the soldiers took him" - the soldiers were Romans considering the Romans where occupying the land of Israel at the time. I know very little about the bible (to my shame) and yet your errors don’t even stand up to me!
Also peterkay, you say how we Christians are going to regret not following Islam when we die, but the Quran clearly says
"[2:62] Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts; anyone who (1) believes in GOD, and (2) believes in the Last Day, and (3) leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve."
I believe in GOD. I believe in the Last Day. So according to your Quran, I have nothing to fear! Thats great news!
Oh no wait!! The Quran says;
"[3:85] Anyone who accepts other than Submission as his religion, it will not be accepted from him, and in the Hereafter, he will be with the losers."
Just another contradiction! Oh well, so much for following the Quran...
"also, it was all writen be a non-muslim, so that is that"
SO what if its a non-muslim! Doesn't mean he can't see contradictions in the Quran! You speak as if only Muslims are capable of reading the Quran or something.
[ This Message was edited by: pleber on 2005-09-22 18:44 ] |
PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
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More Dr Zakir Naik videos and Mp3s can be found HERE.
Videos of Dr Zakir V Dr William:
Watch part 1 HERE
Watch part 2 HERE
Watch part 3 HERE
Watch part 4 HERE
The above videos are in wmv format, and are worth watching as it shows that the bible has many errors and this was proven in the debate.
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"Verily in the heavens and the earth, are Signs for those who believe"
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[ This Message was edited by: PeterKay on 2005-09-22 18:43 ] |
pleber
Joined: Jul 22, 2003
Posts: 200
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Theres no use in this debate with you peterkay. You give me errors in the Bible and I try and explain them... But when I gave you errors in the Quran you just ignore them. I don't mean you to explain every one of them - but a few would be good. Instead you just list more errors and ignore the points I make.
Are you not capable or explaining any contradictions I mention?
[ This Message was edited by: pleber on 2005-09-22 18:51 ] |
PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
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I do not think they are mistakes so why should i rectify them !!
Watch the above debate and then come back to me.
What a cool site this is: http://www.convertstoislam.org
Wow, the internet is amazing.
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PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
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http://thetruereligion.org
Verses 50-52 from Chapter 7 states:
The Companions of the Fire will call to the Companions of the Garden: "Pour down to us water or anything that Allah doth provide for your sustenance." They will say: "Both these things hath Allah forbidden to those who rejected Him."
"Such as took their religion to be mere amusement and play, and were deceived by the life of the world." That day shall We forget them as they forgot the meeting of this day of theirs, and as they were wont to reject Our signs.
For We had certainly sent unto them a Book, based on knowledge, which We explained in detail,- a guide and a mercy to all who believe.
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pleber
Joined: Jul 22, 2003
Posts: 200
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You don't consider them mistakes!! OF COURSE YOU DON'T!!! That is why you should explain them!!! I didn't consider any of the errors you posts as real mistakes, but I tried to explain the truth to you.
What a lazy, poor argument! I get the impression you know very little of the Quran if you can't explain a few simple contradictions. Instead you come up with that feeble excuse... I know your not a stupid person, but that was a stupid response.
Also, I tried downloading the .WMV files - they are 50MB in size - I don’t think so!
The Mp3 you posted I downloaded ok- but I honestly can hardly understand the Muslim debater. He talks too fast and combine that with the accent, I just can’t listen to it… How about you try some debating?
ill be back in a few hours - |
PeterKay
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Quote:
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On 2005-09-22 20:01:08, pleber wrote:
Also, I tried downloading the .WMV files - they are 50MB in size - I don’t think so!
The Mp3 you posted I downloaded ok- but I honestly can hardly understand the Muslim debater. He talks too fast and combine that with the accent, I just can’t listen to it… How about you try some debating?
ill be back in a few hours -
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Any excuse not to listen to DEFEAT, anyway go away and do some research.
Verses 44-46 chapter 7 states:
The Companions of the Garden will call out to the Companions of the Fire: "We have indeed found the promises of our Lord to us true: Have you also found Your Lord's promises true?" They shall say, "Yes"; but a crier shall proclaim between them: "The curse of Allah is on the wrong-doers.
"Those who would hinder men from the path of Allah and would seek in it something crooked: they were those who denied the Hereafter."
Between them shall be a veil, and on the heights will be men who would know every one by his marks: they will call out to the Companions of the Garden, "peace on you": they will not have entered, but they will have an assurance thereof.
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PeterKay
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Verses 116-117 from Chapter 5 states:
And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah.?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right to say. Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.
"Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me up Thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things.
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PeterKay
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The Contradictory Descriptions of the Crucifixion
As i have already stated, it is revealed in the Quran that the person who was crucified was not Jesus (pbuh) but, by a miracle of God, someone resembling him was crucified and Jesus escaped the trap.
The gospels of the New Testament insist that it was Jesus who was crucified. However, their accounts of the crucifixion conflict with one another to an extent far greater than in any other subject.
There are enormous discrepancies on this subject, both among the synoptic gospels and that of John. The account which begins with the Last Supper of Jesus and the disciples and continues with his arrest and trial is the subject of considerable contradiction among the gospels. Let us now examine the major points of these contradictions:
a) The synoptic gospels maintain that there was a "ceremony of bread and wine" at the Last Supper of Jesus and his disciples. Yet John never mentions this. Instead, he makes an entirely different claim that the disciples washed his feet as an expression of love and respect.
b) There is a similar discrepancy with regard to Jesus' arrest by the Romans. According to the claim in the synoptic gospels, Judas Iscariot gave Jesus up by indicating him to the Romans. According to John, Jesus gave himself up. The replies given to Judas by Jesus are also described contradictorily: According to Matthew, he said to Judas, "Friend, do what you came for," whereas according to John there was no dialogue between the two.
c) There is also disagreement with regard to what the disciples did after Jesus' arrest. According to Matthew, the disciples all fled, with only Peter watching Jesus from afar. Mark describes the odd detail of how only "a young man, wearing nothing but a linen garment" watched Jesus, and how he was caught but freed himself from the garment and escaped. Like Matthew, Luke writes that only Peter watched Jesus. John, on the other hand, writes that Simon Peter and another disciple were following Jesus.
d) The answers to the question of who judged Jesus are also different. The synoptic gospels describe how he was tried by the Jewish Supreme Court (the Sanhedrin). According to John, Jesus was tried not by the Sanhedrin, but by Caiaphas, the high priest that time, and his father-in-law Annas.
e) Jesus' trial by the Roman governor, Pontius Pilate, is also described very differently. According to the synoptic gospels, Jesus made no reply to the accusations made against him by Pilate, merely saying "Yes, it is as you say," when asked if he was the king of the Jews. John, on the other hand, says that Jesus made a long reply to Pilate, in a detailed statement saying, "My kingdom is not of this world… But now my kingdom is from another place."
f) Who carried the cross is also unclear. The synoptic gospels write that a man named Simon of Cyrene carried it, whereas John maintains that Jesus carried it himself.
g) The robbers who were crucified alongside Jesus are also described differently, as are Jesus' last words.
h) The gospels also describe the timing of the crucifixion differently. According to the synoptic gospels, it was on the second day of Passover. According to John, it was one day before the Passover.
It is clear that these discrepancies reveal an interesting picture.
That is because these events, which comprise the last day in the life of Jesus, from the Last Supper to the crucifixion, took place, according to the Christian tradition, before hundreds of witnesses. With the exception of the Last Supper, attended only by the disciples, they must all have taken place before large crowds. According to the gospels, the arrest of Jesus took place before hundreds of Romans and Jews. Again according to the gospels, the crucifixion happened in Jerusalem, before the eyes of the populace.
So why is it that there are such discrepancies between the accounts of these events that happened in front of so many eye-witnesses?
The answer is clear: The reason for these discrepancies in the accounts of the crucifixion is that the story is based on an error. It was not Jesus who was crucified. God saved this blessed prophet from the trap laid for him.
Jesus Did Not Die, but Is in the Presence of God
The Quran reveals that the unbelievers devised a plot to take Jesus' life. However, they have failed, for the Quran relates:
They unbelievers planned and God planned. But God is the best of planners. (Quran, 3:54)
As the verses reveal, they plotted and moved to kill Jesus. However, their plot failed and they ended up killing a look-alike. During this event, God raised Jesus up to His presence:
And on account of their saying, "We killed the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Messenger of God." They did not kill him and they did not crucify him, but it was made to seem so to them. Those who argue about him are in doubt about it. They have no real knowledge of it, just conjecture. But they certainly did not kill him. (Quran, 4:157)
The subsequent verse says the following about Jesus' ascension:
God raised him up to Himself. God is Almighty, All-Wise. (Quran, 4:158)
The reality revealed in the verse is clear. Those who attempted to kill Jesus did not succeed. The expression "but it was made to seem so to them" reveals this fact. God showed them a look-alike and raised Jesus up to His presence. Our Lord also reveals that those who made that claim had no knowledge of the truth.
Jesus was not killed.
The truth, clearly indicated in the Qur'an and the hadiths (sayings) of our Prophet (may God bless him and grant him peace), is that Jesus is still alive and will return to Earth in the End Times.
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whizkidd
Joined: May 14, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: India
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In short, all other religions are false?
Only islam is the truth?
I think this is the basic problem with muslims. Their religion is the greatest, all the rest is poop?
2 billion christians are doomed.
900 million hindus are gonna rot in hell.
What will happen to the buddhist "idolators"?
God help the atheists!.
In short the majority of the human race are gonna end up in hell and will be judged on "judgement day"?
Just Because islam says so.
A religion which the majority of the world does not believe in?
Dont you think you are viewing the world from your cocoon?
If you are a moderate muslim, who is claiming superiority of islam over other faiths, There's no doubt why islamic fundamentalists are ready to kill "unbelievers" as a punishment for not believing.
Religion has always been a major source of misunderstandings among mankind. For religion, many people are ready to die, kill and destroy everything.
And this has been most prominently been showcased by islam.
When you say, that the terrorists, who commit crimes are not muslims, and that they "misinterpret" what the koran says, doesn't it mean that the koran contains text which can be easily misinterpreted?
How can the message of god be misinterpreted by mere mortals?
The fact is, almost every major world religions have had thir moments of shame, but except islam all of them were ready to accept their faults.
Many henious crimes were commited in the name of islam in many places all over the world.
A terrorist is a terrorist. He has no religion. Agreed. But when a vast majority of them originate from a particular faith, don't you think there really is something wrong with that religion?
So don't you think there is something in islam which is causing these terrorists use it as a justification for their acts?
T230 >> T610 >> Ngage QD >> N73 >> N85 >> Omnia HD >> And countless other review units |
PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
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THE CONFLICTING ACCOUNTS OF THE CRUCIFIXION IN THE GOSPELS
Present-day Christians believe in the Holy Book known as the New Testament. Many sections of this book call people to believe in and worship God in a most sincere manner and recommend excellent moral principles. In that respect, much of the New Testament is compatible with the Quran. Therefore Muslims and Christians have a great many beliefs in common and believe in the same moral values. This is an important truth which represents the groundwork for the establishment of dialogue and cooperation between the two faiths.
However, God also reveals in the Qur'an that two fundamental teachings in the New Testament are erroneous.
The first of these is the belief that Jesus was crucified and was a kind of "sacrifice" for all mankind.
The second is the claim that Jesus is the "son of God." (God is surely beyond that. Far exalted is He above having a son.)
One interesting point is that the statements in the gospels regarding these two beliefs are actually contradictory.
The Four Gospels
The New Testament contains four separate "gospels" which describe the life and ministry of Jesus. The first three of these, the gospels according to Matthew, Mark and Luke are to a large extent parallel to one another. They are thus described as the "synoptic" gospels in the Christian tradition. (The word "synoptic" means "taking the same point of view, and describes the perspectives of the first three gospels.) Despite being the second gospel in the Old Testament, the earliest is the gospel according to Saint Mark. It is accepted that Matthew and Luke used the gospel according to Saint Mark as a source when writing their own gospels, making a few additions to it.
The fourth gospel is that of John, and this is very different to the line taken by the synoptic gospels. Some events described by John do not appear in the synoptic gospels, or are described in a contrary sense. Moreover, one event described by John is described totally differently from the way it appears in the synoptic gospels.
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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From: UK
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@Peter
if pleber has pointed out what he believes are contradictions in the Quaran then why not explain to us why you do not think they are?
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
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There are no contradictions nor mistakes in the only book that has not changed. I do not need to say anything as the Quran is the Truth and nothing byt the truth.
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Posted: 2005-09-22 19:30
