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PeterKay
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So if Jesus (pbuh) took punishment for the Christians, why are you all created? So that means you can do any sin you wish and get away with it? That sounds ridiculous and hard to believe!
Jesus (pbuh) was not crucified and he will return before the day of judgement is what us Muslims believe and He is not Gods son, as i mentioned earlier:
The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was.
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PeterKay
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Almighty Allah raised Jesus (pbuh) and he will return before the Day of Judgement, He was not Crucified at all.
Verse 54-55 from Chapter 3 from The Glorious Quran states:
And the unbelievers plotted and planned, and Allah too planned, and the best of planners is Allah.
Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee of the falsehoods of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.
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PeterKay
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Chapter 19 titled Mary (may Allah be pleased with here) Verses 30-33 from The Holy Quran states what Jesus (pbuh) said:
He said: "I am indeed a servant of Allah. He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet;
"And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live;
"He hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable;
"So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life again"!
For those who wish to Read the Whole chapter Mary (may Allah be pleased with here), it can be found HERE
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[ This Message was edited by: PeterKay on 2005-09-22 00:19 ] |
pleber
Joined: Jul 22, 2003
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He only died for those that believe in him. Real Christians do not go around doing what they like just because they can get away with it.. The fact that our sins are punished offers an explanation of where our sins go – where’s the Quran’s?
What do you mean why were we created?
It may sound ridiculous to you- but I believe it because it say's so in the Bible.
The Quran says different- but it was wrote by ONE man, who spent lot's of his time in the desert alone starving himself before his 'divine revelations' came to him. (hallucinations anyone?)
The Muslim faith is centred around one profit and what he says is divine revelation given to him by God (Allah). I would not like to be depending that to get me to heaven...
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but its just my view- same way as Christianity sounds ‘ridiculous’ to you…
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PeterKay
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More on Jesus (pbuh). The Holy Quran - Verses 49-54 from Chapter 3 states:
"I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah.s leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by Allah's leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;
"'I have come to you, to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was Before forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allah, and obey me.
"'It is Allah Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight.'"
When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: "Who will be My helpers to the work of Allah." Said the disciples: "We are Allah's helpers: We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims.
Sorry to go on friends, but i just want you to know what the Holy Quran states about Jesus (peace be upon him).
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Also some interesting facts for us all:
The name Mary is mentioned in the Quran 34 times. Jesus is mentioned only once in sura "Mary", in verse 34 and it is the 19th mention of Jesus in the Quran. The name Mary is mentioned in sura 19, 3 times, in verses 16, 27 and 34. From the first mention in verse 16 to the last mention in verse 34 is 19 verses.
The first mention of Mary in the Quran is in 3:36 and the last mention is in 66:12 where Mary is called daughter of Imran. Sura 3 is the 89th sura revealed and sura 66 is the 107th sura revealed. From the revealed sura 89 to the revealed sura 107 is 19 suras.
The name Mary is mentioned in the Quran 34 times. Jesus is mentioned 25 times in the whole Quran. The first time Mary is mentioned in sura 19, it is the 25th time.
Both Adam and Jesus are mentioned 25 times in the Quran. Jesus is mentioned only once in sura "Mary", in verse 34 and it is the 19th mention of Jesus in the Quran. Adam is mentioned only once in sura 19, in verse 58 and it is the 19 th mention of Adam in the Quran. From verse 34 where Jesus is mentioned to verse 58 where Adam is mentioned, 25 verses (the number of times both Adam and Jesus are mentioned in the whole Quran.)
The example of Jesus, as far as GOD is concerned, is the same as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, "Be," and he was. Ch3 V59
In 3:59, the mention of Adam and Jesus is the 7th time in the Quran.
The first time Adam is mentioned in the Quran is in 2:31. The first time Jesus is mentioned is in 2:87. Between verse 31 and verse 87 is 57 verses, 57 = 19 X 3 Where sura 19 is Mary and sura 3 is The Amramites ( Ali-'Imran), both related to Jesus' family.
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pleber
Joined: Jul 22, 2003
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These facts don't really mean much to me considering I don't believe the Quran or that Muhammad was a prophet at all.
Heres an interesting artical on the Quran...
http://debate.org.uk/topics/history/quran.htm
It's quite long, but definatly worth the read.
Heres a snipit for those that don't have time to view the complete article
While Christian or secular Arabic speakers are likely to appreciate the Qur'an's poetic qualities, when anyone who is familiar with the Bible picks up a Qur'an and begins to read it through, there is the immediate recognition that he or she is dealing with an entirely different kind of literature than what is found in the Bible.
Whereas the Bible contains much historical narrative, the Qur'an contains very little. Whereas the Bible goes out of its way to explain unfamiliar terminology or territory, the Qur'an remains silent. In fact, the very structure of the Bible, consisting of a library of 66 books, written over a period of 1,500 years, reveals that it is ordered according to chronology, subject and theme.
The Qur'an, on the other hand, reads more like a jumbled and confused collection of statements and ideas, interposed many times with little relationship to the preceding chapters and verses. Many scholars admit that it is so haphazard in its make-up that it requires the utmost sense of duty for anyone to plow through it!
The German secular scholar Salomon Reinach in his harsh analysis, states that:
"From the literary point of view, the Koran has little merit. Declamation, repetition, puerility, a lack of logic and coherence strike the unprepared reader at every turn. It is humiliating to the human intellect to think that this mediocre literature has been the subject of innumerable commentaries, and that millions of men are still wasting time in absorbing it."(Reinach 1932:176)
McClintock and Strong's encyclopedia concludes that:
The matter of the [Koran] is exceedingly incoherent and sententious, the book evidently being without any logical order of thought either as a whole or in its parts. This agrees with the desultory and incidental manner in which it is said to have been delivered. (McClintock and Strong 1981:151)
Even the Muslim scholar Dashti laments the literary defects of the Qur'an, saying:
"Unfortunately the Qur'an was badly edited and its contents are very obtusely arranged."
He concludes that:
"All students of the Qur'an wonder why the editors did not use the natural and logical method of ordering by date of revelation, as in 'Ali ibn Taleb's lost copy of the text" [Dashti 1985:28].
When reading a Qur'an, you will discover that the 114 suras not only have odd names for titles (such as the Cow, the Spoils, the Bee, or the Cave), but their layout is not at all in a chronological order. Size or length had more to do with the sequence of the suras than any other factor, starting with the longer suras and ending with the shortest. Even within the suras we find a mixed chronology. At times there is a mixture of Meccan and Medinan revelations within the same sura, so that even size is not an infallible guide in dating them.
Another problem is that of repetition. The Qur'an was intended to be memorized by those who were illiterate and uneducated since they could not read it. It therefore engages in the principal of endless repetition of the same material over and over again [Morey 1991:110]. This all leads to a good bit of confusion for the novice reader, and gives rise to much suspicion concerning its vaunted literary qualities.
In contrast to the Bible, which was written over several hundred years by a variety of authors, and flows easily from the creation of the world right through to the prophecies concerning the end of the universe; the Qur'an, supposedly written by just one man, Muhammad, during a span of a mere 20 years, seems to go nowhere and say little outside of the personal and political affairs of himself and his companions at one particular time in history.
With no logical connection from one sura to the next, one is left with a feeling of incompleteness, waiting for the story to give some meaning. Is it no wonder that many find it difficult to take seriously the claim by the Hadith that the Qur'an is "a book second to none in the world," worthy of divine inspiration?
I'm off to bed... |
PeterKay
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Thats why more today are converting to Islam than Christianity 
@pleber, what does the bible say in Mark 16:17-18.....
please tell us what it states.
By the way, The Quran is the only scripture that has NOT changed since it was revealed To the Holy Prophet (pbuh). You can go to any corner of the globe and ask for the Quran and you'll get the same one.
Try that with the bible and see how many different versions you have!
Sweet Dreams Pleber.
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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@pleber
If Jesus died for man's sins, does that include all future sins too?
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
amnesia
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
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@pleber, i doubt that long statement was from a Muslim's point of view.
Says something doesn't it?
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PeterKay
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True Amnesia, absolutely true.
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pleber
Joined: Jul 22, 2003
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@Peterkay
Mark 16 v17-18
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
And this happened.. Later in the Bible, after Jesus has said these things…
Speaking in tounges
Acts 2 v 1-8
1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. 6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Bit by a Serpent
Acts 28 v 3-6
3 And when Paul had gathered a bundle of sticks, and laid them on the fire, there came a viper out of the heat, and fastened on his hand.
4 And when the barbarians saw the venomous beast hang on his hand, they said among themselves, No doubt this man is a murderer, whom, though he hath escaped the sea, yet vengeance suffereth not to live.
5 And he shook off the beast into the fire, and felt no harm.
6 Howbeit they looked when he should have swollen, or fallen down dead suddenly: but after they had looked a great while, and saw no harm come to him, they changed their minds, and said that he was a god.
There are examples of the other things Jesus mentioned- I’ll post them if you want- but going to bed now… really
These things happened after Jesus said these things, so the Bible is right once again. They do not happen now because I believe mens faith has dwindled so much- It takes faith to do these miracles and we have not enough of it... Even when Jesus was still here his desiples were suffering from a lack of faith..
Matthew 17 14-20
14 And when they were come to the multitude, there came to him a certain man, kneeling down to him, and saying,
15 Lord, have mercy on my son: for he is lunatick, and sore vexed: for ofttimes he falleth into the fire, and oft into the water.
16 And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him.
17 Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.
18 And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.
19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?
20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
So there you go..
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By the way, The Quran is the only scripture that has NOT changed since it was revealed To the Holy Prophet (pbuh). You can go to any corner of the globe and ask for the Quran and you'll get the same one.
Try that with the bible and see how many different versions you have!
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Of course we have different versions of the Bible! We don’t all speak the ancient languages. We strive to understand the Bible, so we translate it so we can understand it. The Muslim faith does not recognise the authority of the Quran if it is translated, so of course its not going to change. A translated version of the Quran is not recognised as the real Quran so there can only be one version. We believe the bible to be God’s word no matter what language it is in. Just because the language is changed, doesn’t mean the content has. We just like to understand what we read, that’s all!
Ok, I’m really off to bed now – I’ll continue this discussion with you tomorrow
@scoutsboy – yes, that includes all future sins... If it only meant past sins, you would have to die straight away after you believe in Jesus or you would commit another sin and you’d be back to square one. I know this start the argument “But that means you can do what you like” – and to an extent this is true- you cannot lose your salvation. But you can lose the enjoyment and assurance of it if you live in sin afterward. You will start to doubt that you are saved from hell and will not have a proper relationship with God.
@Amensia
No, it wasn’t wrote from a Muslims point of view- but doesn’t mean its incorrect! But you would know the Quran more than me- so you tell me if the points made are off the mark. Doesn't it seem strange the Quran repeats itself so often? And that it doesn't really go into the history of man in any detail? Etc. etc.
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amnesia
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dude, if someone doesn't believe in Islam or did not actually practice the faith, their opinion will always be biased. no matter what.
please give me an example of what the Quraan repeats so often.
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[ This Message was edited by: amnesia on 2005-09-22 01:28 ] |
scotsboyuk
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Quote:
| @scoutsboy – yes, that includes all future sins... If it only meant past sins, you would have to die straight away after you believe in Jesus or you would commit another sin and you’d be back to square one. I know this start the argument “But that means you can do what you like” – and to an extent this is true- you cannot lose your salvation. But you can lose the enjoyment and assurance of it if you live in sin afterward. You will start to doubt that you are saved from hell and will not have a proper relationship with God. |
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But if you are already assured of salvation why do you need a relationship with God at all?
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
whizkidd
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The religion of Islam is one that promotes peace and betters one's self. |
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Every religion, afaik does that. This is not "exclusive" to islam. No religion i have come across promotes violence and gore.
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This applies to other religions too..but why has this been much much more prominent in islam than any other faith?
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Agreed completely.
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Terrorists that attack other country's in order to convert them or 'punish' others are not Muslims.
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So would you go to the extent of saying that "muslim" invaders who spread the reigion in various parts of the world, especially the indian subcontinent often forcibly, were not muslim, but were terrorists? If yes, you should be thankful to them because they spread islam!
I would like to quote an article by Dr. Serge Trifkovic which sheds some light on how islam spread in india.
Its a long read.
India prior to the Moslem invasions was one of the world’s great civilizations. Tenth century Hindustan matched its contemporaries in the East and the West in the realms of philosophy, mathematics, and natural science. Indian mathematicians discovered the number zero (not to mention other things, like algebra, that were later transmitted to a Moslem world which mistaken has received credit for them.) Medieval India, before the Moslem invasion, was a richly imaginative culture, one of the half-dozen most advanced civilizations of all time. Its sculptures were vigorous and sensual, its architecture ornate and spellbinding. And these were indigenous achievements and not, as in the case of many of the more celebrated high-points of Moslem culture, relics of pre-Moslem civilizations that Moslems had overrun.
Moslem invaders began entering India in the early 8th century, on the orders of Hajjaj, the governor of what is now Iraq. (Sound familiar?) Starting in 712 the raiders, commanded by Muhammad Qasim, demolished temples, shattered sculptures, plundered palaces, killed vast numbers of men — it took three whole days to slaughter the inhabitants of the city of Debal — and carried off their women and children to slavery, some of it sexual. After the initial wave of violence, however, Qasim tried to establish law and order in the newly-conquered lands, and to that end he even allowed a degree of religious tolerance. but upon hearing of such humane practices, his superior Hajjaj, objected:
"It appears from your letter that all the rules made by you for the comfort and convenience of your men are strictly in accordance with religious law. But the way of granting pardon prescribed by the law is different from the one adopted by you, for you go on giving pardon to everybody, high or low, without any discretion between a friend and a foe. The great God says in the Koran [47.4]: "0 True believers, when you encounter the unbelievers, strike off their heads." The above command of the Great God is a great command and must be respected and followed. You should not be so fond of showing mercy, as to nullify the virtue of the act. Henceforth grant pardon to no one of the enemy and spare none of them, or else all will consider you a weak-minded man."
In a subsequent communication, Hajjaj reiterated that all able-bodied men were to be killed, and that their underage sons and daughters were to be imprisoned and retained as hostages. Qasim obeyed, and on his arrival at the town of Brahminabad massacred between 6,000 and 16,000 men.
The significance of these events lies not just in the horrible numbers involved, but in the fact that the perpetrators of these massacres were not military thugs disobeying the ethical teachings of their religion, as the European crusaders in the Holy Land were, but were actually doing precisely what their religion taught. (And one may note that Christianity has grown up and no longer preaches crusades. Islam has not. As has been well-documented, jihad has been preached from the official centers of Islam, not just the lunatic fringe.)
Qasim’s early exploits were continued in the early eleventh century, when Mahmud of Ghazni, "passed through India like a whirlwind, destroying, pillaging, and massacring," zealously following the Koranic injunction to kill idolaters, whom he had vowed to chastise every year of his life.
In the course of seventeen invasions, in the words of Alberuni, the scholar brought by Mahmud to India,
"Mahmud utterly ruined the prosperity of the country, and performed there wonderful exploits, by which the Hindus became like atoms of dust scattered in all directions, and like a tale of old in the mouth of the people. Their scattered remains cherish, of course, the most inveterate aversion toward all Moslems."
Does one wonder why? To this day, the citizens of Bombay and New Delhi, Calcutta and Bangalore, live in fear of a politically-unstable and nuclear-armed Pakistan that unlike India (but like almost every other Moslem country) has not managed to maintain democracy since independence.
Mathura, holy city of the god Krishna, was the next victim:
"In the middle of the city there was a temple larger and finer than the rest, which can neither be described nor painted." The Sultan [Mahmud] was of the opinion that 200 years would have been required to build it. The idols included "five of red gold, each five yards high," with eyes formed of priceless jewels. "The Sultan gave orders that all the temples should be burnt with naphtha and fire, and leveled with the ground."
In the aftermath of the invasion, in the ancient cities of Varanasi, Mathura, Ujjain, Maheshwar, Jwalamukhi, and Dwarka, not one temple survived whole and intact. This is the equivalent of an army marching into Paris and Rome, Florence and Oxford, and razing their architectural treasures to the ground. It is an act beyond nihilism; it is outright negativism, a hatred of what is cultured and civilized.
In his book The Story of Civilization, famous historian Will Durant lamented the results of what he termed "probably the bloodiest story in history." He called it "a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown by barbarians invading from without and multiplying from within."
Moslem invaders "broke and burned everything beautiful they came across in Hindustan," displaying, as an Indian commentator put it, the resentment of the less developed warriors who felt intimidated in the encounter with "a more refined culture." The Moslem Sultans built mosques at the sites of torn down temples, and many Hindus were sold into slavery. As far as they were concerned, Hindus were kafirs, heathens, par excellence. They, and to a lesser extent the peaceful Buddhists, were, unlike Christians and Jews, not "of the book" but at the receiving end of Muhammad’s injunction against pagans: "Kill those who join other gods with God wherever you may find them." (Not that being "of the book" has much helped Jewish and Christian victims of other Moslem aggressions, but that’s another article.)
The mountainous northwestern approaches to India are to this day called the Hindu Kush, "the Slaughter of the Hindu," a reminder of the days when Hindu slaves from Indian subcontinent died in harsh Afghan mountains while being transported to Moslem courts of Central Asia. The slaughter in Somnath, the site of a celebrated Hindu temple, where 50,000 Hindus were slain on Mahmud’s orders, set the tone for centuries.
The gentle Buddhists were the next to be subjected to mass slaughter in 1193, when Muhammad Khilji also burned their famous library. By the end of the 12th century, following the Moslem conquest of their stronghold in Bihar, they were no longer a significant presence in India. The survivors retreated into Nepal and Tibet, or escaped to the south of the Subcontinent. The remnants of their culture lingered on even as far west as Turkestan. Left to the tender mercies of Moslem conquerors and their heirs they were systematically destroyed, sometimes—as was the case with the four giant statues of Buddha in Afghanistan in March 2001—up to the present day.
That cultivated disposition and developed sensibility can go hand in hand with bigotry and cruelty is evidenced by the example of Firuz Shah, who became the ruler of northern India in 1351. This educated yet tyrannical Moslem ruler of northern India once surprised a village where a Hindu religious festival was celebrated, and ordered all present to be slain. He proudly related that, upon completing the slaughter, he destroyed the temples and in their place built mosques.
The Mogul emperor Akbar is remembered as tolerant, at least by the standards of Moslems in India: only one major massacre was recorded during his long reign (1542-1605), when he ordered that about 30,000 captured Rajput Hindus be slain on February 24, 1568, after the battle for Chitod. But Akbar’s acceptance of other religions and toleration of their public worship, his abolition of poll-tax on non-Moslems, and his interest in other faiths were not a reflection of his Moslem spirit of tolerance. Quite the contrary, they indicated a propensity for free-thinking in the realm of religion that finally led him to complete apostasy. Its high points were the formal declaration of his own infallibility in all matters of religious doctrine, his promulgation of a new creed, and his adoption of Hindu and Zoroastrian festivals and practices. This is a pattern one sees again and again in Moslem history, down to the present day: whenever one finds a reasonable, enlightened, tolerant Moslem, upon closer examination this turns out to be someone who started out as a Moslem but then progressively wandered away from the orthodox faith. That is to say: the best Moslems are generally the least Moslem (a pattern which does not seem to be the case with other religions.)
Things were back to normal under Shah Jahan (1593-1666), the fifth Mogul Emperor and a grandson of Akbar the Great. Most Westerners remember him as the builder of the Taj Mahal and have no idea that he was a cruel warmonger who initiated forty-eight military campaigns against non-Moslems in less than thirty years. Taking his cue from his Ottoman co-religionists, on coming to the throne in 1628 he killed all his male relations except one who escaped to Persia. Shah Jahan had 5,000 concubines in his harem, but nevertheless indulged in incestuous sex with his daughters Chamani and Jahanara. During his reign in Benares alone 76 Hindu temples were destroyed, as well as Christian churches at Agra and Lahore. At the end of the siege of Hugh, a Portuguese enclave near Calcutta, that lasted three months, he had ten thousand inhabitants "blown up with powder, drowned in water or burnt by fire." Four thousand were taken captive to Agra where they were offered Islam or death. Most refused and were killed, except for the younger women, who went into harems.
These massacres perpetrated by Moslems in India are unparalleled in history. In sheer numbers, they are bigger than the Jewish Holocaust, the Soviet Terror, the Japanese massacres of the Chinese during WWII, Mao’s devastations of the Chinese peasantry, the massacres of the Armenians by the Turks, or any of the other famous crimes against humanity of the 20th Century. But sadly, they are almost unknown outside India.
There are several reasons for this. In the days when they ruled India, the British, pursuing a policy of divide-and-rule, whitewashed the record of the Moslems so that they could set them up as a counterbalance to the more numerous Hindus. During the struggle for independence, Gandhi and Nehru downplayed historic Moslem atrocities so that they could pretend a facade of Hindu-Moslem unity against the British. (Naturally, this façade dissolved immediately after independence and several million people were killed in the religious violence attendant on splitting British India into India and Pakistan.) After independence, Marxist Indian writers, blinkered by ideology, suppressed the truth about the Moslem record because it did not fit into the Marxist theory of history. Nowadays, the Indian equivalent of political correctness downplays Moslem misdeeds because Moslems are an "oppressed minority" in majority-Hindu India. And Indian leftist intellectuals always blame India first and hate their own Hindu civilization, just their equivalents at Berkeley blame America and the West.
Unlike Germany, which has apologized to its Jewish and Eastern European victims, and Japan, which has at least behaved itself since WWII, and even America, which has gone into paroxysms of guilt over what it did to the infinitely smaller numbers of Red Indians, the Moslem aggressors against India and their successors have not even stopped trying to finish the job they started. To this day, militant Islam sees India as "unfinished business" and it remains high on the agenda of oil-rich Moslem countries such as Saudi Arabia, which are spending millions every year trying to convert Hindus to Islam.
One may take some small satisfaction in the fact that they find it rather slow going.
(Serge Trifkovic received his PhD from the University of Southampton in England and pursued postdoctoral research at the Hoover Institution at Stanford. His past journalistic outlets have included the BBC World Service, the Voice of America, CNN International, MSNBC, U.S. News & World Report, The Washington Times, the Philadelphia Inquirer, The Times of London, and the Cleveland Plain Dealer. He is foreign affairs editor of Chronicles: A Magazine of American Culture.)
This is not an attempt to malign islam or to hurt religious sentiments of anyone, but isn't it true that islam has been one of the most violent of faiths (if not the most violent) ever?
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PeterKay
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On 2005-09-22 02:22:36, pleber wrote:
@Peterkay
Mark 16 v17-18
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them;
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So, if you drink a deadly thing i.e. Poison, nothing will happen? Would u like to try and demonstrate this verse to us all?
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Posted: 2005-09-22 01:05
