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so who is religous here? |
PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
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From: The Ummah
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More information on the Day of Judgement can be found HERE.
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pleber
Joined: Jul 22, 2003
Posts: 200
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@peterkay - you say every action will be given account for, but that’s not what I'm asking. I too believe we will all have to give an honest account for ourselves, and that we will all have to confess out sins... what I'm asking is, what does God do with those sins? God is righteous and because it is right to punish sin, sin cannot go unpunished. What I'm asking is; where is the punishment for this sin?
@amnesia - you say people go to hell before they go to heaven? A sinner is not capable to paying for the cost of his own sins, so why does he go to hell first? God loves us all and doe's not want to see anyone in hell - the only reason people go to hell for ETERNITY is for the punishment of their sins. It's not because God is angry with us, but God is righteousness so we HAVE to be punished for our sins. If a human was capable of paying the full price of his sins by doing a time in hell, then eventually everyone that went to hell would have paid their price (some sooner than others), and there would be nobody left in hell... So why do people go to hell before they go to heaven?
Also, you mentioned Priests selling tickets to heaven- yes they did do that- they still do it to a certain extent, but that is totally contrary to the bible teachings, and is completely wrong.
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PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
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Quote:
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On 2005-09-22 00:06:44, pleber wrote:
@peterkay - you say every action will be given account for, but that’s not what I'm asking. I too believe we will all have to give an honest account for ourselves, and that we will all have to confess out sins... what I'm asking is, what does God do with those sins? God is righteous and because it is right to punish sin, sin cannot go unpunished. What I'm asking is; where is the punishment for this sin?
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Where the punishment for the sin is only God Almighty knows and If he wishes to punish a person he will, if he wishes to forgive he forgives. He can do whatever he wishes and we his servants will learn our fate on that day. The only thing we can do is follow the teachings as shown by the Holy Prophet (pbuh) and the Holy Quran, this way we can achieve our goal and God-willing we will enter Paradise.
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amnesia
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
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From: Doha, London, Tokyo, Shanghai
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you said it yourself, God will punish us for our sins. So you will be punished accordingly.
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pleber
Joined: Jul 22, 2003
Posts: 200
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So the Quran gives no explanation of where the sin goes?
Does it not bother you that you can have no assurance of heaven? That you can never know for sure or have that peace you are going to escape hell?
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PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
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From: The Ummah
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Chapter 3 Verses 18-19 from the Final Revelation states:
There is no god but He: That is the witness of Allah, His angels, and those endued with knowledge, standing firm on justice. There is no god but He, the Exalted in Power, the Wise.
The Religion before Allah is Islam submission to His Will: Nor did the People of the Book dissent therefrom except through envy of each other, after knowledge had come to them. But if any deny the Signs of Allah, Allah is swift in calling to account.
Another great verse from the same chapter tells us of the earlier messengers. Verse 84 states:
Say: "We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in the Books given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets, from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another among them, and to Allah do we bow our will in Islam."
If anyone desires a religion other than Islam submission to Allah. Never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost All spiritual good.
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amnesia
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
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From: Doha, London, Tokyo, Shanghai
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@pleber, you certainly do like to insinuate alot. You basically make assumptions on what I DONT say.
I never said we wont go to heaven. I said that you will be punished for your sins "accordingly"
If you stole, you will be punished for stealing then go to heaven and so on.
I'm sure the Qura'an can provide you with more in depth articles (as PeterKay is posting)
Best thing to do is go to a religious expert (actually go to more than one, some can be very opinionated)
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PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
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Quote:
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On 2005-09-22 00:27:20, pleber wrote:
So the Quran gives no explanation of where the sin goes?
Does it not bother you that you can have no assurance of heaven? That you can never know for sure or have that peace you are going to escape hell?
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No it does not bother me at all, i do my best for my religion and my creator knows this. Whatever he decides i will accept but what i forgot to tell you was that a person who has believed in Allah and has done no good deeds will eventually get a place in heaven after a certain period in hell fire. Believing in Almighty Allah is the Key to heaven whether you believe me or not.
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amnesia
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
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From: Doha, London, Tokyo, Shanghai
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thats right peter.
Basically what i was saying. You are punished accordingly then go to heaven.
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pleber
Joined: Jul 22, 2003
Posts: 200
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Quote:
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On 2005-09-22 00:26:55, amnesia wrote:
you said it yourself, God will punish us for our sins. So you will be punished accordingly.
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Yes, God will punish our sins, that is true. However, because I believe in Jesus, my sins were punished 2000 years ago. Jesus took my punishment.
God cannot let sin go unpunished, so He punished His Son in my stead. That’s why I cannot understand other religions- who takes the punishment if there is no such thing as Gods Son?
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I never said we wont go to heaven. I said that you will be punished for your sins "accordingly"
If you stole, you will be punished for stealing then go to heaven and so on.
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If we are capable of paying the price for the sin of theft, then we could also pay the price of murder, etc, etc. Then eventually everyone would be in heaven… right?
[ This Message was edited by: pleber on 2005-09-21 23:41 ] |
PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
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@Pleber, please tell me what the bible says about punishment in the grave? and punishment in hell fire? What does it actually state?
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PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
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Quote:
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Yes, God will punish our sins, that is true. However, because I believe in Jesus, my sins were punished 2000 years ago. Jesus took my punishment.
God cannot let sin go unpunished, so He punished His Son in my stead. That’s why I cannot understand other religions- who takes the punishment if there is no such thing as Gods Son?
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That is unbelivable  i cannot believe what i have just read...
You are saying that Jesus (pbuh) took the punishment for your sins?
Why would God punish his OWN SON? (by the way, us Muslims don't believe that Jesus is Gods Son).
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amnesia
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
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From: Doha, London, Tokyo, Shanghai
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i feel that if I was a Christian, I wouldn't feel right thinking that Jesus was punished for me.
If I was a bastard, I'd probably do nasty stuff and say screw it, Jesus took the wrap.
I have to correct you though.
We dont believe that Jesus is God's son. But we do believe that he has sons. We are all God's children.
"Then eventually everyone would be in heaven… right? "
If you truely believe in Islam and are not part of it just as a label, then yes you will go to heaven. not everyone though.
(however I have my own theories on this)
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[ This Message was edited by: amnesia on 2005-09-21 23:45 ] |
PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: The Ummah
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Chapter 3 Verses 59-60 States:
The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was.
The Truth comes from Allah alone; so be not of those who doubt.
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pleber
Joined: Jul 22, 2003
Posts: 200
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@peterkay - what the bible says about unbelievers;
2 Thessalonians 1:8-9
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
Also, about Jesus paying the price for my sin - YES!! That is what all Christianity is based upon! That is the linchpin of the Christian faith!!
Read this-
1 Peter 2 21-24
21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
@am
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i feel that if I was a Christian, I wouldn't feel right thinking that Jesus was punished for me.
If I was a bastard, I'd probably do nasty stuff and say screw it, Jesus took the wrap.
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Yes, we should feel like a bastard- and we should feel very very grateful for what Jesus did for us. God allowed his Son to be judged in our stead because he loves us so much. If you really are a believer, then I don’t think you would do bad things just because you know you are safe from judgment.
[ This Message was edited by: pleber on 2005-09-22 00:04 ] | |
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Posted: 2005-09-21 23:59
