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so who is religous here? |
vanquish
Joined: Mar 20, 2003
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That has to be the biggest load of poop ever. Stay up all night? What for?
[addsig] | |
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PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
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From: The Ummah
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You'll find out when you're dead 
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amnesia
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
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@vanquish, common now dont be rude.
@Scots, you are contradicting yourself, if you look at life in the simplist method possible, then you wouldn't think of so many reasons for one answer. Thats not simple.
If it will satisfy you though, what he considers evil is what most of society agrees is considered an evil act.
(keyword = most)
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PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
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Chapter 41 Verses 30-33 from The Holy Quran states:
In the case of those who say, "Our Lord is Allah., and, further, stand straight and steadfast, the angels descend on them from time to time, "Fear ye not!" they suggest, "Nor grieve! but receive the Glad Tidings of the Garden of Bliss, the which ye were promised!
"We are your protectors in this life and in the Hereafter: therein shall ye have all that your souls shall desire; therein shall ye have all that ye ask for.
"A hospitable gift from one Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful!"
Who is better in speech than one who calls men to Allah, works righteousness, and says, "I am of those who bow in Islam"?
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PeterKay
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Chapter 40 Verses 67-72 from The Glorious Quran states:
It is He Who has created you from dust then from a sperm-drop, then from a leech-like clot; then does he get you out into the light as a child: then lets you grow and reach your age of full strength; then lets you become old,- though of you there are some who die before;- and lets you reach a Term appointed; in order that ye may learn wisdom.
It is He Who gives Life and Death; and when He decides upon an affair, He says to it, "Be", and it is.
Seest thou not those that dispute concerning the Signs of Allah. How are they turned away from Reality?
Those who reject the Book and the revelations with which We sent our apostles: but soon shall they know,
When the yokes shall be round their necks, and the chains; they shall be dragged along-
In the boiling fetid fluid: then in the Fire shall they be burned.
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[ This Message was edited by: PeterKay on 2005-09-19 22:41 ] |
PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
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What is said about the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)
As a matter of fact, Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is the last link of the chain of Prophets sent in different lands and times since the very beginning of the human life on this planet. Read the following writings of the Western authors:
"If greatness of purpose, smallness of means, and astounding results are the three criteria of human genius, who could dare to compare any great man in modern history with Muhammad? The most famous men created arms, laws and empires only. They founded, if anything at all, no more than material powers which often crumbled away before their eyes. This man moved not only armies, legislations, empires, peoples and dynasties, but millions of men in one-third of the then inhabited world; and more than that, he moved the altars, the gods, the religions, the ideas, the beliefs and souls. His forbearance in victory, his ambition, which was entirely devoted to one idea and in no manner striving for an empire; his endless prayers, his mystic conversations with God, his death and his triumph after death; all these attest not to an imposture but to a firm conviction which gave him the power to restore a dogma. This dogma was twofold, the unity of God and the immateriality of God; the former telling what God is, the latter telling what God is not; the one overthrowing false gods with the sword, the other starting an idea with words.
"Philosopher, orator, apostle, legislator, warrior, conqueror of ideas, restorer of rational dogmas, of a cult without images; the founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire, that is Muhammad. As regards all standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well ask, is there any man greater than he?"
Lamartine, HISTOIRE DE LA TURQUIE, Paris, 1854, Vol. II, pp. 276-277.
"It is impossible for anyone who studies the life and character of the great Prophet of Arabia, who knows how he taught and how he lived, to feel anything but reverence for that mighty Prophet, one of the great messengers of the Supreme. And although in what I put to you I shall say many things which may be familiar to many, yet I myself feel whenever I re-read them, a new way of admiration, a new sense of reverence for that mighty Arabian teacher." Annie Besant, THE LIFE AND TEACHINGS OF MUHAMMAD, Madras,1932, p. 4.
"His readiness to undergo persecutions for his beliefs, the high moral character of the men who believed in him and looked up to him as leader, and the greatness of his ultimate achievement - all argue his fundamental integrity. To suppose Muhammad an impostor raises more problems than it solves. Moreover, none of the great figures of history is so poorly appreciated in the West as Muhammad." W. Montgomery Watt, MOHAMMAD AT MECCA, Oxford, 1953, p. 52.
More on the Final messenger of mankind can be found Here.
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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Quote:
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On 2005-09-19 16:02:10, amnesia wrote:
@Scots, you are contradicting yourself, if you look at life in the simplist method possible, then you wouldn't think of so many reasons for one answer. Thats not simple.
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An answer can have many reasons behind it. It is simpler to accept that fact than to work against it and attempt to narrowly define things. That is simple.
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If it will satisfy you though, what he considers evil is what most of society agrees is considered an evil act.
(keyword = most)
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Indeed I would agree with you and I said as much in my last post. The trouble is that good and evil are social constructs created by man and they operate on the basis of morality. Where society runs into trouble is when two moral codes exist side by side e.g. a multicultural society must decide, which moral code it uses for all its citizens or perhaps it might even seek to use seperate moral codes for different citizens.
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
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Manners of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (pbuh):
If the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho alaihe wasallam) abused anybody, he used to give him compensation and show him kindness. He did never curse any woman or slave. Once when he was in the battle field, he was asked: O Messenger of Allah, it would have been better if you had cursed them. He said: Allah sent me as a mercy and not as a great curser. When he was asked once to curse a particular person or an unbeliever, he did not curse him but on the contrary prayed for his welfare. He never beat anybody with his own hand except in the way of Allah. he did not take any revenge for personal wrongs but he used to take it for preservation of the honour of Allah.
He used to select the easier of two things and kept away if there was any sin there in or anything to cut off relationship. He used to fulfill the needs of anyone who required his help, whether a slave or a freeman. Anas (Radhiallahho Anho) said: By One who sent him as a Holy Prophet (Sallallaho alaihe wasallam), he never said to me. Why have you done this or why have you not done this? His wives also did not rebuke me. If there was any bed of the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho alaihe wasallam), he used to sleep on it or else he used to sleep on the ground. Allah described the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho alaihe wasallam) in the Torah Muhammad the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho alaihe wasallam) of Allah, His chosen servant, without harshness, not roaming in the streets, not returning evil for evil. He is prone to pardon. He is forgiven. His birth is at Mecca, his migration to Ta’ba and his reign in Syria. He and his companions put on Ijar around their waists and call towards the Quran and wisdom. He makes ablution of his bodily limbs. Similar is his description in Injil (New Testament).
Another trait of his characters is that he used to salute first one whom he met with. He used to wait at a place where he was to meet a man. He used not to withdraw his hand from anybody till he first withdrew his hand. When he met with any of his companions, he used to handshake with him, hold his hand, enter his fingers unto his fingers and hold them firmly. He did not stand up or sit without remembering Allah. When anybody sat by him at the time of his prayer, he used to make it short and say to him: Have you got any need? When he fulfilled his need, he returned to his prayer.
More on the final messengers character and attitude can be found HERE
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vanquish
Joined: Mar 20, 2003
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From: Wor Newcastle Phone: V600i
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On 2005-09-19 15:48:50, PeterKay wrote:
You'll find out when you're dead
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That is very biased. When i'm are dead, I'll be in heaven 
I just think in my humble opinion (i mean it, no sarcasm) that islam is based around 'earning' your place in heaven. But surely, we cannot match up to Gods high standards? Therefore, christianity is not about getting to that level, which is impossible, but accepting that you can't and letting someone that can into your life, physically and mentally, and out of that comes deeds that please God. Thats my view...
What are your thoughts on that, thanks! 
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I do believe that that is a pig wearing aviator goggles.
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LMAO! 
[ This Message was edited by: vanquish on 2005-09-21 13:05 ] |
amnesia
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
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you 'earn' your way in by doing good.
if thats not a good reason I dont know what is.
@scots, although I understand what your saying, you're giving the definition of what you see good and evil is.
He's not talking about a definition, just the basic impression that he has.
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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From: UK
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@amnesia
Yes I know, but I was expanding upon that to include my own beliefs since this thread is discussing religious beliefs. 
@vanquish
If there you see someone who is dying of thirst would you give them water?
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
pleber
Joined: Jul 22, 2003
Posts: 200
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On 2005-09-21 14:05:01, vanquish wrote:
That is very biased. When i'm are dead, I'll be in heaven
I just think in my humble opinion (i mean it, no sarcasm) that islam is based around 'earning' your place in heaven. But surely, we cannot match up to Gods high standards? Therefore, christianity is not about getting to that level, which is impossible, but accepting that you can't and letting someone that can into your life, physically and mentally, and out of that comes deeds that please God. Thats my view...
What are your thoughts on that, thanks!
[ This Message was edited by: vanquish on 2005-09-21 13:05 ]
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My thoughts exactly Vanquish - I believe it is impossible to earn our way to heaven...
@Amnesia, I understand why you think good works is a perfectly reasonable way to get a place in heaven- I mean someone has to go to heaven, why not the good, right?
However, God is on a totally different level from us, so we are really really unfit to please God and earn our way to heaven. You take the best person you know of, and the worst person you know of... In the grand scale of things they are both INFINATLY not fit for heaven and guilty of sin (Even though in our eyes we see a big difference in the two). One might be better than the other, but we are all SO low and unworthy, that there’s no way some of us are good enough for heaven...
Another flaw on earning your way to heaven;
Where does the line be drawn?
If you earn your way to heaven then it must take a certain amount of 'goodness' on your part. But that means if you fall just below that level of 'goodness' you go to hell. So the difference between one person going to hell and the other heaven could balance on 1 sin- one bad thought or action... Just doesn't add up.
I believe the only way to get to heaven is to depend on Jesus to get you there. I'm certainly not going to depend on myself (what a nightmare!) to get me to heaven, but instead I'm going to depend on God's son, Jesus - Who is perfect and sinless.
Jesus died and suffered FOR my sins. ( 1 Peter 2 v 24: Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed). The power of the statement "Jesus died for our sins" has been lost I think. People don't seem to realise that Jesus suffered and died as a direct punishment for our sins.. And because I trust in Him, then he died for my sins. When I die and stand before God, I'll be able to point to Christ Jesus and say- "Yes, I'm a sinner, and yes I deserve punishment, but Jesus has already took my punishment for me". Do you think God will make you suffer for the sins His Son has already suffered for? No- once is enough for God.
Salvation through faith is the only way that makes sense in my eyes. If I was doing good works and prayers and citations to get me to heaven, would I be doing these things to please God or would it be to avoid hell and work my way to heaven? If the only reason I did a good work was to avoid hell- it wouldn’t be a good work- it would be a selfish work.
Phew- long post!
What do the rest of you think about earning you way to heaven? Thanks
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PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
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From: The Ummah
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Earning your way to heaven is easy....
Just believe in One God and believe that Muhammad (pbuh) is the final messenger.
God almighty forgives any sin except worshipping another Gods as it mentions in The Holy Quran Chapter 4 Verse 116:
Allah forgiveth not The sin of joining other gods with Him; but He forgiveth whom He pleaseth other sins than this: one who joins other gods with Allah, Hath strayed far, far away from the right.
So anyone can enter heaven, the doors arent closed friends.
Chapter 4 Verse 171 from The Glorious Quran states:
O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was no more than an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: far exalted is He above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.
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pleber
Joined: Jul 22, 2003
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@PeterKay
So anyone that believes Allah is the only God goes to heaven? |
amnesia
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
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Yes God is at a totally different level, but we can't compare ourselves to God, and until then we have to do as much good as possible.
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Posted: 2005-09-19 15:46
