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so who is religous here? |
pleber
Joined: Jul 22, 2003
Posts: 200
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I’m just wondering if the non-democratic culture of Islam allows for more dictators/corrupt governments than a democratic western country. I’m not even sure if Islam is anti-democracy? Maybe Peter_Kay can answer that? Thanks...
Also, Peter_kay, that’s a point where our religions differ… “Unless he repents, believes, and works righteous deeds, for Allah will change the evil of such persons into good, and Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful”..
We too have to repent and believe, but we don’t have to do good deeps to earn a place in Heaven. The bible says the even our best deeds are like filthy rags in Gods eyes, "But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousness are as filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6)."
In Christianity we believe that the only reason we can go to heaven is because God’s Son died and suffered for the sins we commit, so that we too don’t have to suffer for them as well. God is righteous, so he can’t overlook our sins, no matter how much he loves us- that’s why he had to send his Son to die for us. (For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16)
Peter_Kay, could you tell me Islam’s perspective on sinners entering Heaven? Does Allah make the faithful and those that perform righteous deeds, pure and sinless before they enter heaven? Does the sin of those people just disappear is it bore by someone else?
Thanks in advance…
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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From: UK
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How wealthy a country is really has very little to do with the religion(s) practiced in that country.
Many European nations, for example, are secular, proscribing no one religion. amnesia's point about the UK is incorrect, the UK is a very rich country, chiefly through taxation. The UK is one of the most taxed countries in the world and derives much of that wealth through taxation. European and North American countries tend to be rich because thay are industrialised and tend to have a wide variety of resources. Middle Eastern countries, by compariosn, count their chief resources as oil and tourism on the whole.
To try and link economic success with religion is a little far fetched in countries where religion does not dominate politics. A Muslim country has a smuch chance of being rich or poor as a Christian country.
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
vanquish
Joined: Mar 20, 2003
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From: Wor Newcastle Phone: V600i
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On 2005-09-05 13:36:48, PeterKay wrote:
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On 2005-09-05 11:16:17, vanquish wrote:
No offence, but shouldn't the title of this topic be turned into 'Thread for Muslims or those interested in Islam' because its kind of hard to put a post in that isn't about Islam?
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Why is is so hard to put something about other religions, if you can't be bothered thats your fault! I enjoy posting regarding my religion and anyone is welcome to post about theirs, but if they cant be bothered thats their problem. The topic name is right as it is and does NOT need to be changed.
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touchy touchy. well when i do post i get ignored. and something stupid like youre a christian or summit.
YAYAYAYAY!
get in pleber!
rock on christianity, im here for some support if they start gangin up on you!
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I do believe that that is a pig wearing aviator goggles.
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LMAO! 
[ This Message was edited by: vanquish on 2005-09-07 19:01 ] |
pleber
Joined: Jul 22, 2003
Posts: 200
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Scots... I take your points; I personally think that Islam cultures are more likely to be ruled by a dictator which usually ends up in a small number of super rich people but mostly very poor people... If there is just as much chance of an Islamic country being rich, then why are they mostly poor? I mean look at the richest nations- The U.S., Japan, Germany, France, UK - The list goes on for a while before you get to a Muslim country.... If there really was as much chance of a Muslim country being rich, and the fact that over 25% of the world’s population is, then shouldn't 1 in 4 countries in the rich list be Muslim countries, statically speaking?
Maybe its a regional factor I don’t know, but surly you cant argue with the fact that Muslim countries are unnaturally underrepresented in the rich list…
I wasn’t making the point to fault Islam, I was just wondering what others opinions were on it… Thanks
vanquish - I haven't read much of the full post (55 pages and counting!), but I assume people inquire about Islam a lot because its on the political stage so much etc. Unfortunately most people are bored with Christianity
[ This Message was edited by: pleber on 2005-09-07 19:05 ] |
vanquish
Joined: Mar 20, 2003
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From: Wor Newcastle Phone: V600i
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Is it not because of their placing? I thought it was also because of oil or something. Although i may be talking out me bum, as usual.
[addsig] |
pleber
Joined: Jul 22, 2003
Posts: 200
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I would have thought that their placing would actually HELP them become rich... A lot of these countries have huge natural resources, but their population seem to live in poverty (at least compaired with the west).
I blame the Arab League |
PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
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From: The Ummah
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On 2005-09-07 20:02:57, vanquish wrote:
Is it not because of their placing? I thought it was also because of oil or something. Although i may be talking out me bum, as usual.
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*cough* *cough*
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vanquish
Joined: Mar 20, 2003
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From: Wor Newcastle Phone: V600i
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hey this aint your thread mate, no need to tread on peoples toes. im getting mixed up with another religion. in fact im all mixed up lol.
[addsig] |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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On 2005-09-07 20:01:24, pleber wrote:
Scots... I take your points; I personally think that Islam cultures are more likely to be ruled by a dictator which usually ends up in a small number of super rich people but mostly very poor people... If there is just as much chance of an Islamic country being rich, then
why are they mostly poor? I mean look at the richest nations- The U.S., Japan, Germany, France, UK - The list goes on for a while before you get to a Muslim country.... If there really was as much chance of a Muslim country being rich, and the fact that over 25% of the world’s population is, then shouldn't 1 in 4 countries in the rich list be Muslim countries, statically speaking?
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First of all many of the dictators that have ruled over Muslim countries have done so with Western support as a bulwark against communism. We have seen and continue to see those regimes change now that the U.S.S.R. is no more.
We are now seeing the beginning of democracisation in some Islamic countries e.g. Egypt, Saudi Arabia, etc.
Christianity lends itself to dictatorship as well as Islam. Until the 18th century some European nations were effectively dictatorships in the form of absolute monarchies based upon Christianity. They changed over time just as the Islamic world will no doubt change over time.
Now onto the question of wealth. Western nations industrialised first and so have a huge head start over non-Western countries in terms of manufcaturing abilities as well as resource collection capabilities. Furthermore Western countries tend to avoid the extreme sof nature and resources that Islamic countries have e.g. temperate climates and a variety of resources.
Some Islamic countries do rather well for themselves and will probably do better if they diversify their economies more. One must also remmeber that many Islamic nations have only been independent for a fifty or so years and it can take time to effect economic success.
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Maybe its a regional factor I don’t know, but surly you cant argue with the fact that Muslim countries are unnaturally underrepresented in the rich list…
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As are Buddhist countries, what exactly is your point? If you are attempting to establish a link between religion and wealth it is dubious at best. As I said before, many European countries are very wealthy yet are extremely secular. Unless a country's economic policy is dictated by rleigious concerns then it is tenous at best to say that religion corrolates directly with a country's wealth.
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I wasn’t making the point to fault Islam, I was just wondering what others opinions were on it… Thanks
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I didn't say you were. 
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vanquish - I haven't read much of the full post (55 pages and counting!), but I assume people inquire about Islam a lot because its on the political stage so much etc. Unfortunately most people are bored with Christianity
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People may also be content with Christianity and feel no need to shout about it.
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"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2005-09-07 19:32 ] |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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On 2005-09-07 20:08:12, pleber wrote:
I would have thought that their placing would actually HELP them become rich... A lot of these countries have huge natural resources, but their population seem to live in poverty (at least compaired with the west).
I blame the Arab League
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Take a country like Saudi Arabia. Saudi has vast oil reserves, but little else of real value. They are also in one of the most politically instable regions of the world. Neithe rof these things are conductive to vast investment in Saudi apart from the oil, which is a necessity.
A good idea would be for the Middle Eastern countries to develop a trading bloc like the EU to facilitate trade with one another more easily and allow a free transfer of people and commerce.
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
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From: The Ummah
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On 2005-09-07 20:20:27, vanquish wrote:
hey this aint your thread mate, no need to tread on peoples toes. im getting mixed up with another religion. in fact im all mixed up lol.
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tut tut - never said it was my thread, at least pleber knows what he's talking about. At last a christian who knows about his faith, been waiting for so long.
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Kwiksta
Joined: Jul 17, 2004
Posts: > 500
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@ peterkay lmao  im with peter kay 
tempsonyfreak 
Previously --> tempsonyfreak |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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Now now chaps let's play nice. 
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"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2005-09-07 19:38 ] |
Kwiksta
Joined: Jul 17, 2004
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tempsonyfreak
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Proud owner of a k700i and a PSP (NBA STREET (100% COMPLETE!) + RIDGE RACER) I HAVE A STUCK PIXEL! HELP!
[ This Message was edited by: tempsonyfreak on 2005-09-07 19:40 ] |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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Perhaps we should get away from economics here, this really isn't the thread for it.
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC | |
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Posted: 2005-09-07 19:22
