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so who is religous here? |
Gigs
Joined: Jan 19, 2004
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From: The planet Snibertron!
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On 2005-08-23 10:23:06, 786KBR wrote:
I think the basis of any religion IS direction... the journey to heaven/hell, Toaism (what I understand) sorta gives the message of 'do whatever you want good or bad, you're just worm food in the end and your soul will decide if it wants to go to heaven or hell, bit rhetorical hey!?' Sorry if its a bit harsh..
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Yet still better than "If you're a good person then you'll live in a fluffy white clouded paradise.. yet step one foot wrong and be naughty and your entrails shall be plucked out by rusty tweezers and fed to a group of snarling gophers while barbara streisand plays at rock like volumes in the back ground."
If I understand what scots writes about the Tao, then the tao isn't a heaven or hell, it's not a promise to its followers of good or bad, it's simply an extention of what we'd call the soul and of natural force. To be qwirky, if you really want to equate it to something think of "the force" in starwars but without all the jedi mind trick stuff. (Though one might argue that any of scots 3 page posts will certainly stun you like a stormtrooper looking for 2 droids  )
I do think you're right in one way, that religions are direction, but I think the main issue here is that certain religions have their direction and expect you to conform to it. Other religions simply tell you there are ways, but in the end you make your choices, but be aware of things that can influence your choice of direction.
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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From: UK
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@Gigs
That's actually not a bad way of looking at Taoism, it is very like the Force.  The Force was largely based upon Taoism I believe.
What one has to realise is that Taoism has no concept of 'sin', there are no absolute rights or wrongs. There is the natural order of things, which Taoists seek to follow, which is The Way.
Now, this is the explanation you are looking for, you don't need to ask for further explanations ...
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
JK
Joined: Feb 24, 2005
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From: S. Africa - JOZI
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How do you follow the natural order of things?
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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From: UK
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@786KBR
One can both observe nature and contemplate the wisdom of Taoist masters and texts. Simply put, to follow the natural order of things one merely needs to live as nature intended. That seems to be rather easier to say than do. Consider the following chapter from the Tao Te Ching:
Quote:
| Honest people use no rhetoric;
Rhetoric is not honesty.
Enlightened people are not cultured;
Culture is not enlightenment.
Content people are not wealthy;
Wealth is not contentment.
So the sage does not serve himself;
The more he does for others, the more he is satisfied;
The more he gives, the more he receives.
Nature flourishes at the expense of no one;
So the sage benefits all men and contends with none. |
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What this is saying, to me at any rate, is that one should be one's self and not concern one's self with man made ideas of what it is to be good, happy or content. We complicate our lives with concepts we feel help us or make us better when all they do us cause problems for both ourselves and others. One should live simply and not look for more than one actually needs.
Nature takes the simplest course, humans most often take the most complicated route. This can perhaps best be explained by Wu Wei, which is integral to Taoism. Wu Wei is action through inaction or 'creative inaction'. This is the process of doing without appearing to have done anything because one's ations are so in tune with the Tao. Taoists look to nature and observe how nature acts to guide their own lives. Nature is impartial and so the Taoist seeks to be impartial.
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
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From: The Ummah
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Chapter 54 Verses 1-5 from the Glorious Quran:
The Hour of Judgment is nigh, and the moon is cleft asunder.
But if they see a Sign, they turn away, and say, "This is but transient magic."
They reject the warning and follow their own lusts but every matter has its appointed time.
There have already come to them Recitals wherein there is enough to check them,
Mature wisdom;- but the preaching of Warners profits them not.
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PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
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From: The Ummah
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Chapter 41 Verses 3-8 from the Glorious Quran states:
A Book, whereof the verses are explained in detail - a Quran in Arabic, for people who understand,
Giving good news and admonition: yet most of them turn away, and so they hear not.
They say: "Our hearts are under veils, concealed from that to which thou dost invite us, and in our ears in a deafness, and between us and thee is a screen: so do thou what thou wilt for us, we shall do what we will!"
Say thou: "I am but a man like you: It is revealed to me by Inspiration, that your Allah is one Allah. so stand true to Him, and ask for His Forgiveness." And woe to those who join gods with Allah,-
Those who practise not regular Charity, and who even deny the Hereafter.
For those who believe and work deeds of righteousness is a reward that will never fail.
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PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
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From: The Ummah
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Chapter 80 Verses 34-42 from The Glorious Quran mention the future for mankind, Almighty Allah is the only one who can tell us the future for he is the only creator of mankind. He is Allah, the Creator, the Evolver, the Bestower of Forms, the Sovereign, the Holy One, the Source of Peace, the Exalted in Might, the Irresistible, the Supreme.
That Day shall a man flee from his own brother,
And from his mother and his father,
And from his wife and his children.
Each one of them, that Day, will have enough concern of his own to make him indifferent to the others.
Some faces that Day will be beaming,
Laughing, rejoicing.
And other faces that Day will be dust-stained,
Blackness will cover them:
Such will be the Rejecters of Allah, the doers of iniquity.
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PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
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From: The Ummah
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Chapter 14 Verse 52 states:
Here is a Message for mankind: Let them take warning therefrom, and let them know that He is no other than One Allah. let men of understanding take heed.
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PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
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From: The Ummah
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Verse 110 from Chapter 3 states:
Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors.
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PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
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From: The Ummah
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Here is a small profile of Yvonne Ridley, who was captured by the Taliban after September 11. She was a reporter of the BBC who now has converted to Islam after reading The Holy Quran.
http://www.yvonneridley.com
Q: Do you think you would have become a Muslim if you had not been captured by the Taleban?
A: I very much doubt it. I think that I would have continued to cover the Middle East as many journalists do without fully understanding Islam. This is too bad since Islam is more a way of life than a religion so journalists should make every attempt to understand it. Had I not had the experience, I probably would have remained a Christian. I have often said that I wore a veil before - a veil of bigotry and prejudice concerning Islam and sadly, I guess that I would probably still be wearing it had it not been for my experience.
Q: What do you think about the way the Western media has written about your experience?
A: The Western media is at a total loss as to how to explain my conversion to Islam. Most critics point to Stockholm Syndrome and say that this is a classic case of that syndrome. But the reality is that I did not bond with my captors. I was abusive toward them, spat at them, and cursed them. The only people I bonded with were the six Christian fundamentalists that I was locked up with in prison in Kabul.
More on the Questions and Answers can be found HERE.
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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From: UK
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@PeterKay
Interesting, but I find it curious that people would try to explain her conversion. Clearly she wasn't happy as a Christian or she wouldn't have converted. People look for too much sometimes.
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
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From: The Ummah
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More from Yvonne Ridleys site:
Q: How do you think the events unleashed by 9/11 will end? Or will they ever end?
A: I don't think 9/11 was the start of anything; it was the continuation. I wish that the American people had stood back and asked why 9/11 happened. I fear 9/11 is an indication of things to come. Unless American foreign policy changes dramatically, I think that there will unfortunately be more catastrophes. It is a never-ending war.
Q: How has 9/11 changed the world media, especially in the West?
A: The American media has become hysterical. The great days of American investigative journalism have all but vanished. With the exception of people such as Seymour Hersh, the American media is gutless. It is not giving the American people the truth. Thankfully, the European media has not yet sunk so low but there are signs that it could happen.
http://www.yvonneridley.com/profile.asp
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"Verily in the heavens and the earth, are Signs for those who believe"
"Verily the Day of Sorting out is a thing appointed"
[ This Message was edited by: PeterKay on 2005-08-31 10:28 ] |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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From: UK
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@Peter
That isn't really about religion though, more her view of media bias.
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
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From: The Ummah
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http://www.beconvinced.com/en/main.php Nice Site 
http://www.islamicinvitationcentre.com/ All Welcome
http://drzakirnaik.com/pages/qanda/index.php Answers 4 All
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PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
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From: The Ummah
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Is This A Coincidence?
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Access the forum with a mobile phone via esato.mobi
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Posted: 2005-08-23 23:23
