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Other bad news from Iraq. |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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From: UK
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@bobafett
What on earth are you talking about? This is a war between good and evil! Hitler offerred Britain a peace deal after he defeated France, do you think we should have negotiated with him? I am immensely proud that we did not, even though it resulted in the deaths of millions. Each and every person who fought for what was rignt, in that war, is a hero.
Negotiating with bin Laden would be to disrespect the sacrafices those men and women made for us. This isn't just America's war, Al Qeada hate everything about Western civilisation in particular and non-extremist Islamic culture in general. To even consider that we negotiate with bin Laden is rediculous, despite his 'truce' he seeks to cause as much pain and suffering as possible.
There is only one way to tackle bin Laden, and unfortunately, that is force. We must all fight him with every ounce of strength we have until we have destroyed bin Laden and his followers completely.
Perhaps surrender, for let's not mistake what is being proposed, is an acceptable method of combating evil to you, but it never will be to the majority of humanity, thankfully.
War is a terrible thing indeed, but sometimes, very rarely mind you, it is necessary, this is one of those times.
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[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2004-04-16 11:21 ] | |
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boto43
Joined: Nov 23, 2003
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From: Trnava-Nitra,Pardubice CSSR
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Iranian diplomat has been killed in Iraq. My Allah,what's the matter? I always has been thinking that Iranians and Iraqis r the same. Is it a begining of the war among muslims or Iranian - Iraqi war from '80 will continue. Who of them will get usa support now. |
batesie
Joined: Feb 13, 2004
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From: London, UK
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what i dont understand is for him to offer a truce, means that he must have a trick up his sleave, i wouldnt buy a phone of him on ebay, let alone agree a truce.... many hidden agendas lurk in the world of politics.
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Vlammetje
Joined: Mar 01, 2003
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From: Den Haag
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Quote:
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On 2004-04-15 16:08:21, bobafett wrote:
they have no problem with us, we have no problem with them. the problems are the usa and israel.
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they don't, do they?? 
They bombed Spain just for the fun of it eh? or perhaps they mistakenly thought Spain isn't part of Europe then eh?
May I remind you, that any type of religious fanatic.... and Bin Laden is a dangerous fanatic who operates under the excuse of 'religion'.... will eventually turn on everybody who does not support his way of thinking.
besides.... you may have forgotten.... but most people worldwide have not...... that he bombed the WTC. You suggest we ally ourselves with a cold blooded murderer like that?
What a despicable thought!
Besides..... you may think al Qaeda has no beef with us....... have you ever heard reports of how many substances transports have been intervened.... how many bombs intercepted?
To the Bin Ladens of this world... every 'westernized country' (up to and including places like Japan) is an unpure place, spawning evil, that needs to be 'cleaned up' or nuked out of this world altogether.
Tell me something, if a man from a neighbouring town slaughters every single person in your street except you....... he offers you to be your friend..... and meanwhile happily continues to kill off everybody in the next street.... would you accept his friendship? Would you offer him yours? Would you trust him?
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BobaFett
Joined: Jan 06, 2004
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From: Kamino (wish it would be Lund)
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Since the invasion of iraq the world went crazy again. I am not a pacifist, but war and weapons are not the way to solve problems. In case of bin laden, its not the question if they catch it or not, its a worldwide system already. Remember the reaction after sejk jasins dead. He was a kind of terrorist too, but the way he was killed accused indignation worldwide, especially in eu.
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Sammy_boy
Joined: Mar 31, 2004
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From: Staffordshire, United Kingdom
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Killing Bin Laden won't solve the current terrorist problems, just like in Israel - they keep killing Hamas leaders, but they seem to be queueing up to take the assassinated leaders' place, and spawning more followers to the Palestinian suicide bombers cause.
However, doing nothing is also not an option. As bowing to terrorists is not an option, and all-out war also in this case isn't working, what is left?
I suspect a solution to the Israel/Palestine problem would do it, but there won't be one as extremists on both sides won't be happy, even though they would make up a minority. It wouldn't stop them killing each other and innocents.
"All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke
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BobaFett
Joined: Jan 06, 2004
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From: Kamino (wish it would be Lund)
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Hard to see the situation neutral, as avoid focusing only on one side. But to understand it and find the right solution is the using of brain and heart in the same time afforded.
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Vlammetje
Joined: Mar 01, 2003
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From: Den Haag
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Quote:
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On 2004-04-16 11:41:58, bobafett wrote:
Remember the reaction after sejk jasins dead. He was a kind of terrorist too, but the way he was killed accused indignation worldwide, especially in eu.
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It's not so much the fact that Israel had him killed (he was another blood-thirsty fool blinded by hate) as it is the fact that Israel chooses it's moments in a way that will ensure [n]no peace[/b] for another very long strech of time. Does anybody else notice how Sharon is not interested in peace? 
Besides... no matter how you look at it.... i say Sheik Yassin has just as much blood on his hands as Ariel Sharon..... this does not compare to the situation bin laden-europe. I dare say I (and most other average europeans) do not have the blood of thousands of innocents on our hand.
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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From: UK
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A solution to the Israeli-Palestinian problem will not make terrorism go away, but it would help. Since niether side seems able to actually implement a successful peace plan l propose that the old imperial method be used, impose peace on them.
The world is fed up with constant violence there, so we should jolly well make them accept peace.
@bobafett
It isn't a question of pacifism, it's a question of doing what is right. Bin Laden would happily bomb Hungary as he would Spain or Britain or Italy etc. What you propose is blind stupidity, he wants to alienate the US from its most powerful allies. He realises that the West is countering his operatives and that Western forces are destroying his network, he is running scared. If he had the capability for a massive attack, on the scale of 9/11, he would have done it by now, he has been hit hard and we must keep up the pressure.
The US does need to change its policies though to avoid the creation of terrorism in the first place, but we must never forget what it is we fight for, that which is most precious of all, freedom. Negotiations cannot work with fanatics, they have no capacity for compromise, which underpins negotiations, they must be fought every step of the way. We have overwhelming military, economical and technological might, we should utilise these aspects more to spread good in the world and to combat evil as fiercely as we can wherever we may find it.
To quote WSC:
" ... Never give in, never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large
or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense."
_________________
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2004-04-16 11:48 ] |
BobaFett
Joined: Jan 06, 2004
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From: Kamino (wish it would be Lund)
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Its a real pity i dont speak arabian. Would be interesting to hear news from the re or watch al jazira. We hear here only what our medias wants to show us.
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Vlammetje
Joined: Mar 01, 2003
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From: Den Haag
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of course.
just like they only hear what THEIR MEDIA SHOWS them.
The actual thruth probably lies hidden in the middle.
I've had it happen once that on Moroccan tv we saw a news item... 2 days later back home the same item but a completely different story.
Years ago I had a german teaccher who came from the DDR. He was shocked to find out that 'western' media are just as bad as the state-regulated media in the DDR were. I'll always remember he said 'You were being lied to just as bad as we were.'
The world is full of misunderstandings and the politicians (they do control the media... think of the news items on the US troops in Iraq way in the beginning) are to blame.... 
anyway... I'm trailing off. By listening to the news in other countries you will STILL not have even the slightest idea of the truth.
And YOUR perception may be truth to you.... but not to the guy sitting next to you. Even if you think you know the facts (ACTUAL FACTS!)... your interpretation of them may be very very different from that poor farmer's wife in Iraqi countryside... who's husband and 3 sons were murdered by Saddam's regime, who's daughters were now raped by American soldiers and who's last sheep has been stolen by Iraqi rebellion groups to 'feed the warriors'
Traded one evil for another.
So much for freedom for the common man.
Things are never simple.
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If at first you don't succeed,
look in the trash for the instructions.
[ This Message was edited by: Vlammetje on 2004-04-16 12:17 ] |
Sammy_boy
Joined: Mar 31, 2004
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From: Staffordshire, United Kingdom
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Hindsight's a perfect science - we will probably only find out exactly what's been going on in a somewhat impartial way a few years after all this has been resolved (IF it gets solved!!).
Until then, I fear that, despite satellite TV, internet, internet mobiles, we won't know exactly what's going on in an impartial and factual way, just as @vlamm has said.
"All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke
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BobaFett
Joined: Jan 06, 2004
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From: Kamino (wish it would be Lund)
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Anyway, time will solve the problem. So or so. We lost already on some way.
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boto43
Joined: Nov 23, 2003
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From: Trnava-Nitra,Pardubice CSSR
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@ hey vlam, democratic or better capitalist media lies the same way like communist one. I can say it 'cause I use to live in both social order, but u have never ..
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BobaFett
Joined: Jan 06, 2004
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From: Kamino (wish it would be Lund)
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Both of them, however i think the us media is more worse as once the russian was. I do remember those times.
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Posted: 2004-04-16 10:58
