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Is Sony Ericsson doomed? |
Dogmann
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: London England
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@carkitter
Whilst you take the information from SE's PR which is a joke all by itself and reach your conclusions. I make my assumptions from SE's sales and market share drops which shows exactly what the whole market thinks of SE. Not what SE's spin machine tries to say and seems to believe.
The largest growing market in phones at the moment is smart phones although they are mainly Multimedia smart phones. SE's total lack of offerings in this sector is just one of the things that is hurting them so badly, especially when their non smart phones are as expensive if not more then some of their rivals Multimedia smart phones.
In this Web and Media generation these small screens being described as large on SE devices is yet another factor that detracts from SE. Again as their rivals offer larger screen's for the same or less money. SE expects users to pay a premium for the SE name not what the phones consist off, most consumers go for the best spec's for their money not an SE badge that doesn't mean as much as it used to.
The evidence of all the above is plain to see just how much further do SE need to fall before even SE realise the problem never mind SE fans. They only got 4th back not due to their brilliance but because Moto are still doing even worse.
Marc
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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-07-25 11:33 ] | |
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kreacher
Joined: Mar 24, 2006
Posts: 254
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They have definitely lost market share and mind share, more and more shops are carrying Samsung phones while SE phones are harder to find (Nokia is everywhere of course).
The bulk of mobile users will buy a phone based on the marketing hype and specs on paper, they won't upgrade their firmware and if they find bugs in the phone they'll get rid of it and avoid the brand.
Since Nokia phones are considered to be more reliable (better build quality) they have a higher resale price. So another reason for a new buyer to avoid trying out non-Nokia phones.
Since returning a phone is not an option here, even people who frequent forums like these will stay away from potentially buggy phones. Heck, I couldn't bring myself to buy a K850 after reading that so many people were facing problems because I would have been stuck with it.
SE have to realize what they're up against and release some killer products (i.e. clearly better in every way but at a competitive price) that shock their competitors (like AMD did with Radeon 4xxx GPUs and forced Nvidia to drastically cut prices of their products). That's the only way they'll start to win back customers.
Releasing products that have intentionally crippled functionality or going back on announced features isn't going to help them. |
Dups!
Joined: Sep 24, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: GMT +2
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On 2008-07-25 13:14:10, kreacher wrote:
They have definitely lost market share and mind share, more and more shops are carrying Samsung phones while SE phones are harder to find (Nokia is everywhere of course).
The bulk of mobile users will buy a phone based on the marketing hype and specs on paper, they won't upgrade their firmware and if they find bugs in the phone they'll get rid of it and avoid the brand.
Since Nokia phones are considered to be more reliable (better build quality) they have a higher resale price. So another reason for a new buyer to avoid trying out non-Nokia phones.
Since returning a phone is not an option here, even people who frequent forums like these will stay away from potentially buggy phones. Heck, I couldn't bring myself to buy a K850 after reading that so many people were facing problems because I would have been stuck with it.
SE have to realize what they're up against and release some killer products (i.e. clearly better in every way but at a competitive price) that shock their competitors (like AMD did with Radeon 4xxx GPUs and forced Nvidia to drastically cut prices of their products). That's the only way they'll start to win back customers.
Releasing products that have intentionally crippled functionality or going back on announced features isn't going to help them.
Spot on there kreacher!
Shock the competition and the market they desperately need to.To me this reminds me of the times when Ericsson decided to stop their cellphone business, Ericsson phones started becoming less of a sight in shops which is starting to happen with a lot of carriers carrying less SE phones.
They need to turn this around urgently.
It's not what you do or even how you do it but in what state of mind you do it: Dups! 2009 |
anonymuser
Joined: Dec 17, 2002
Posts: > 500
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On 2008-07-25 03:35:02, carkitter wrote:
But we differ because you think  are losing repeat business from dissatisfied customers, while I say thay are not gaining new customers because those customers are not attracted to phones because they lack certain 'must-have' features.
Your comments are emotive and superficial and lack any proof
Surely the proof is all over Esato, with once loyal SE customers and "fans" posting in threads like this? Dogmann was once a repeat SE customer, and so was I - I bought E/SE every year since my T28s in 2001. I also encouraged others to do the same, and like many of us was a walking billboard for the company.
Last year I almost slept-walked into a new P1, but ended up with an HTC handset instead, partly because my preferred network didn't stock the P1 (due to the high returns of recent UIQ phones) and partly because when it came down to it, the P1 simply couldn't compete on any level with the competing handset I was being offered, and my strained brand loyalty finally evaporated. I know I'm not the only former SE zealot to do the same thing - in fact, I'm part of quite a trend, and that trend is being reflected in SE's current performance.
I've thoroughly enjoyed having a really leading edge handset for the past nine months (my first probably since the P800), and although I'm starting to think about my next upgrade, I've absolutely no interest in anything SE have to offer - they literally have nothing on the market that begins to compare with my almost year-old phone.
At the same time, I've seen my wife's W910 lose all her text messages, and gradually fall apart over the same period - proving that even their relatively simple feature phones are an embarrassment. Naturally, her repeat business this year has most definitely been lost.
It's especially sad because out of loyalty to those great old phones of old, I'd still like to buy SE - but I just have no faith in them to deliver anything worthwhile any more. SE are not the company they once were (or originated from), and their products now trail behind the competition in every way.
[ This Message was edited by: Boinng on 2008-07-25 14:17 ] |
Bonovox
Joined: Apr 13, 2008
Posts: > 500
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Not sure if anyone noticed but i used to have a W900i on Vodafone some years back. What i noticed with that phone was it had the smoothest view finder of any camera phone i seen from SE. Think its cos video had 30fps but it was so smooth and great no lag when panning around. Not seen that since. |
goldenface
Joined: Dec 17, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Liverpool City Centre
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On 2008-07-25 17:21:00, Bonovox wrote:
Not sure if anyone noticed but i used to have a W900i on Vodafone some years back. What i noticed with that phone was it had the smoothest view finder of any camera phone i seen from SE. Think its cos video had 30fps but it was so smooth and great no lag when panning around. Not seen that since.
It was amazing.
I had footage taken from a cab going past Brooklyn Bridge in NYC and it still amazes me even now.
Proabably due to the graphics chip.
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londonlad123
Joined: Jun 22, 2004
Posts: > 500
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Let's not forget the stupid design decisions that Se have also made. For me the side fastport has stopped me using my w890 as a mp3 player. They took away the play/pause button, the autofocus, the led. Things i became used to with the w800. Se decided it was best if they moved backwards, so they did.
It's funny, the market was booming and they had low to mid specs out. |
mode
Joined: Jan 12, 2007
Posts: > 500
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IMO the reason why Nokia is doing so well is due to the fact that they provide choice to consumers. You can have everything in a business phone powerhouse (E90) or shed some weight and features with E61, everything in a multimedia powerhouse (N95 8Gb) or something more affordable in the same category which is many to say the least. We don't even have to go to the entry level ones for us to know how much of a choice they provide to their consumers. SE 'thinks' they are giving us choice by slapping brands on their devices such as Walkman and Cybershot and omitting features on either phones to segmentize them further, but what they're actually doing is MAKING US CHOOSE which is far from giving us choice. At the end of the day, they sacrifice perfection for such flawed marketing strategy and give us half-assed products. To add insult to the injury their QC has taken a turn for the worst and their arrogance has left them in the dark as to what their customers really want. SE has to shape up or prepare to ship out
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[ This Message was edited by: mode on 2008-07-25 22:18 ] |
DEAF
Joined: Mar 30, 2007
Posts: 313
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i have a w890i but the main problem on this device is lack of shack control ,led flash and most important the keypad on it is to tine for me I still use it as a back up . to me a phone must have top technology high loud speaker and a good useage ( camera,buttons ,fast port, software).what im seeing from sony ericsson is poor quality no effort on the product .SE just carries abouts it economy purpose not what there customer need . I've had it with the poor quality of sony ericsson its like they think people are actualy not going to do a research on thier phone see what phone they want .if SE doesnt provide a phone with good quality and effort im just will go for another phone brand with high quality and specification.iwant the people to compare between the w902 and c902 no differnce except for walkman mode how are they trying to laugh at there selfs because no way im going to replace a phone with a mono speaker and same specif as c902 and no wifi . |
carkitter
Joined: Apr 29, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: Auckland, NZ
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On 2008-07-25 12:32:03, Dogmann wrote:
@carkitter
Whilst you take the information from SE's PR which is a joke all by itself and reach your conclusions. I make my assumptions from SE's sales and market share drops which shows exactly what the whole market thinks of SE. Not what SE's spin machine tries to say and seems to believe.
SE's sales and market share drops you quote from come from SE press releases. SE profit warnings also come from SE press releases. SE are being truthfull about the situation, you are not.
On 2008-07-25 12:32:03, Dogmann wrote:
The largest growing market in phones at the moment is smart phones although they are mainly Multimedia smart phones.
This is incorrect. The largest growing market is entry level phones in emerging markets. SE has already moved into this market in a big way and continues to do so.
The Mid and high end market is shrinking that's why and Nokia have lost sales and profitability in these areas.
The market which attracts the most publicity is smart phones, this is not to be confused with market reality though.
Just because you make a statement Marc does not make it so.
It seems to me that the most vehement critics of are the PDA owners who are nearly all now Nokia owners with a few iPhones, Blackberrys and HTC's for good measure. Its unfortunate that has not been able to keep up in this area but this does not mean is doomed to failure as PDA's are not 's core business. Feature-phones (dumb phones) are 's core business and in this area provide an enjoyable user experience with A200, a wide range of features and innovative design. We know they are not selling as well as they could and that some features like Wifi, larger screens and better video recording/playback would help. But one niche (PDA's) and one failure (k850) do not end a company like Sony Ericsson especially one which is investing heavily in R&D, has chosen new leadership, and releases statements like "No longer do you need to make a choice between music, media and imaging when picking your next phone. Compromise is now a thing of the past... " I think they are listening to us, but change takes time.
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[ This Message was edited by: carkitter on 2008-07-26 04:59 ] |
@ftyk
Joined: Apr 20, 2008
Posts: 139
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se's a200 is a compromise for the poor/broke.
[addsig] |
Brightspark
Joined: Aug 19, 2007
Posts: 326
From: UK
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@carkitter
"SE profit warnings also come from SE press releases. SE are being truthfull about the situation, you are not. "
Doggman is right. one should go by the facts and figures and ignore the spin. they speak a lot louder than "sony ericsson is investing in the future" when their figures tell a different story (eg the fact that they are dismissing 2000 of their staff).
[ This Message was edited by: Brightspark on 2008-07-26 05:43 ] |
carkitter
Joined: Apr 29, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: Auckland, NZ
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On 2008-07-25 22:26:31, DEAF wrote:
I have a w890i but the main problem on this device is lack of shake control ,led flash and most important the keypad on it is too tiny for me I still use it as a back up. To me a phone must have top technology, a loud speaker and good usability (camera, buttons, fast port, software). What I'm seeing from sony ericsson is poor quality, no effort on the product.
Sounds to me like you bought the wrong phone. Did you try it out first? Did you look at models equipped with Shake Control and those with LED flash? Did you try the buttons? And still you bought the W890... how is this 's fault? W890 is a good phone, I'm considering it myself ATM. What I'm seeing is little effort on your part.
On 2008-07-25 22:26:31, DEAF wrote:
SE just carries abouts it economy purpose not what there customer need.
That old chestnut about 'profits before people' again? Grow up, You didn't have to buy the phone. Your complaints are about the phone specification of which you knew before you purchased, not about the quality of the product.
On 2008-07-25 22:26:31, DEAF wrote:
I've had it with the poor quality of sony ericsson. It's like they think people are actually not going to research thier phones to see what phone they want. If SE doesn't provide a phone with good quality and effort I will just go for another phone brand with higher quality and specification. I want people to compare between w902 and c902 - no difference except for walkman mode. How are they trying to laugh at there selfs because no way I'm going to buy a phone with a mono speaker and same spec as c902 and no wifi .
By all means research specifications, choose the phone you want and buy it. You have freedom to choose.
W902 and C902 are quite abit different actually, for instance W902 has Play/Stop, FF >> and RR << buttons on it and 's Clear Audio firmware.
Almost all phones have mono speakers and almost all music phones are advertised with music accessories such as A2DP spherical speakers, plugin external speaker boxes similar to iPod accessories, MMC-60/MMC-70 cables, FM transmitters, A2DP accessories which plug into home audio.
I also agree that feature phones need wifi.
I have corrected your english to get your points across better, but I still have no idea what this means: " How are they trying to laugh at there selfs..."
I see many statements posted like the one above. Do some people buy of Ebay based on spec and reputation only? Have these people not heard of "Buyer beware"? Why buy on faith and then complain here? 
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[ This Message was edited by: carkitter on 2008-07-26 09:05 ] |
carkitter
Joined: Apr 29, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: Auckland, NZ
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On 2008-07-26 06:42:55, Brightspark wrote:
@carkitter
"SE profit warnings also come from SE press releases. SE are being truthfull about the situation, you are not. "
Doggman is right. one should go by the facts and figures and ignore the spin. they speak a lot louder than "sony ericsson is investing in the future" when their figures tell a different story (eg the fact that they are dismissing 2000 of their staff).
Dogmann provides no facts and figures. The facts and figures come from themselves and do not contain spin. It's illegal to falsify financial information made public to the market. SE is remarkably honest and I for one respect that. You can decide what you like about statements like "Challenging marketing conditions" but the facts and figures come from SE and not Dogmann. Credit where it's due please.
SE stated that thier net profits were down because they were reinvesting back into the business particularly in the area of R&D. That was to show that they were responsible and planning for the future. This also negates the 'profits before customers' argument as it proves Sony and Ericsson would rather run a competitive successful company that sells what customers want, than just take the money and run. Another example of Credit where it's due.
Dismissing 2000 staff was mentioned in a different, later press statement, and may include the hundreds of UIQ staff also. I don't know for sure.
@ftyk
Rejoicing in your arrogance does you no credit.
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[ This Message was edited by: carkitter on 2008-07-26 06:15 ]
[ This Message was edited by: carkitter on 2008-07-26 09:01 ] |
QVGA
Joined: May 23, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: Pakistan
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On 2008-07-25 22:26:31, DEAF wrote:
i have a w890i but the main problem on this device is lack of shack control ,led flash and most important the keypad on it is to tine for me I still use it as a back up . to me a phone must have top technology high loud speaker and a good useage ( camera,buttons ,fast port, software).what im seeing from sony ericsson is poor quality no effort on the product .SE just carries abouts it economy purpose not what there customer need . I've had it with the poor quality of sony ericsson its like they think people are actualy not going to do a research on thier phone see what phone they want .if SE doesnt provide a phone with good quality and effort im just will go for another phone brand with high quality and specification.iwant the people to compare between the w902 and c902 no differnce except for walkman mode how are they trying to laugh at there selfs because no way im going to replace a phone with a mono speaker and same specif as c902 and no wifi .
your useless rants about loud speakers are laughable to say the least. if you really want a loud speaker, get a huge one and carry it around the back of your head.
and as car kitter said, it seems as you didnt research the phone before buying which is your own fault
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Posted: 2008-07-25 12:32
