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iPhone unlocking will 02. Apple and CPW have to? |
fatreg
Joined: Jul 26, 2003
Posts: > 500
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On 2007-09-22 22:33:10, N3uR0 wrote:
I'm only talking about the unlock codes not software to unlock the phone. If you unlock it by those means then thats your choice. No need to get shirty.
nono..
I know you're on about O2 unlocking it.. but I think they are going to be forced to allow it.. I know a few people that will happily take O2 to court if thats the only way of making them stand up and listen and follow EU wide laws..
I see it two ways,
a) iPhone comes from Apple directly, non subsidised by O2, therefore HAS to be sim free
or
b) iPhone comes from Apple via O2 to gain a wee sticker, handbook, snazzy bag, this then becomes an O2 handset, and therefore subject to the EU laws stated above...
If either are the correct case but false, i.e. a doesn't come unlocked or b, O2 decide not to play ball, then there will be hell and high water happening in O2 legal dept, I don't care how good your legal eagles are, they will not topple a EU wide law.....
PS.. not getting shirty, just trying to explain the ins and outs of phones, and while I understand you work for O2, I also worked for Orange for 6 years and gained a vast knowledge about phones and services.... not saying I'm better than you, just asking you to see it from a consumer POV and not O2s 
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N3uR0
Joined: Jul 09, 2003
Posts: 51
From: UK
PM |
I'm am interested in what they have to say about this also, will definately seek an answer from the oracle of o2!
Unlucky about working for orange!  joking!
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fatreg
Joined: Jul 26, 2003
Posts: > 500
PM |
ahh the oracle of O2.. I was the oracle of Orange!
me unlucky? you only get 50% off line rental, we get free calls and messages and no line rental..
3 however get the best staff deal... free whatever on their phones...
but yeah.. if you can seek an answer from an O2 big wig, that would be grand
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Dogmann
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: London England
PM |
@N3uR0
Indeed if you can get an answer that would be great, but this has been my point from my first post. It really doesn't matter if Apple have locked it to ensure only 02 Sim cards can be used or if this has been done at 02's request or not it really makes no difference.
The very simple fact is it is not legal to force you to use only one Network on any device that you have bought and paid for, whose fault it is really doesn't matter one of them will be forced to have to unlock it and if they believe different i think hey are both wrong and in for a nasty surprise.
As in all i have read i have seen no one that has tried to claim it is legal to lock an unsubsidised device that a user owns to single Network as that is the whole point of the law to ensure the user has freedom of choice as to which Network he uses the device on and can not be forced to use a particular Network.
I would also like to point out that i am not an 02 hater and if the iPhone had gone to any other Network i would still feel the same and believe the same rule of Law would apply.
Of course i understand why both 02 and Apple want to try and insure this device is used only on 02's Network as if used on another Network 02 receive no income from it and neither do Apple and of course both company's wish to maximise their revenues.
But as i said i think they have failed at looking at the true implications of their actions and just blundered on just believing that because that is what they say must happen that is all that is needed. Again as pointed out by some it is totally illegal to lock a handset at all in some countries what is going to happen in those places then?
Yes i am standing up for consumer rights and that is why i have brought this to everyone's attention. Really 02 and it's resellers should only be selling the iPhone subject to connection to the Network and claiming it is subsidized but as they have not done this that is what makes them vulnerable. But even then at the end of the contract period they would still have to sell an unlock code. I am eager to see what response you get from 02 and just how they are going to try and justify there actions.
May be they will have to adjust there marketing strategy and are fortunate enough to have just over a month before release to do so.
Marc
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Nokia E61, 2gb Sandisk, Fring, Tom Tom 6
Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER
[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-09-23 09:45 ] |
N3uR0
Joined: Jul 09, 2003
Posts: 51
From: UK
PM |
On 2007-09-22 22:55:50, fatreg wrote:
ahh the oracle of O2.. I was the oracle of Orange!
me unlucky? you only get 50% off line rental, we get free calls and messages and no line rental..
3 however get the best staff deal... free whatever on their phones...
but yeah.. if you can seek an answer from an O2 big wig, that would be grand
Staff deal on o2 is 1000 minutes & 1000 texts and free data usage and a free phone for £20 and 15 friends and family 30% discount on online. Aint that bad really. |
seunlock-uk
Joined: Jan 12, 2007
Posts: 294
PM, WWW
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My Orange deal is free line rental, unltd free mins and texts and 30MB data.
Watch Out for our Upcoming Retail Store!! |
mswallis
Joined: May 23, 2003
Posts: 460
From: England
PM |
Have a read of this:
http://forums.macrumors.com/s[....]&goto=lastpost&threadid=357070
What say you? |
seunlock-uk
Joined: Jan 12, 2007
Posts: 294
PM, WWW
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lol they are having they same debate, as I just don't see this being a good move on the part of either Apple or O2.
Watch Out for our Upcoming Retail Store!! |
Dogmann
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: London England
PM |
@mswallis
The pay as you go part is correct as i have had this confirmed to me when i spoke to 02. However the unlocking part is contrary to what i was told and has been confirmed on this Forum by a couple of people that work for 02.
There really is no problem using the iPhone with a PAYG Sim other than i have been told it needs to be a special Sim although this may be something to do with the fact it is locked as once unlocked people are just using there ordinary Sim cards.
I will speak to 02 again tomorrow and see if i get a different answer re the unlocking or not, if i don't get confirmation it can't or won't be unlocked i will them talk to OFCOM to see what their take on it is or if they can direct me as to who i need to speak to.
Currently i am of the belief that this new firmware 1.1 is going to make redundant the current unlocking and hacking that is available as the new Touch has greatly improved firmware that so far all the teams that broke the iPhone have been unable to break.
Marc
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Nokia E61, 2gb Sandisk, Fring, Tom Tom 6
Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER
[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-09-24 00:34 ] |
SloopJohnB
Joined: Oct 28, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: the blue planet
PM |
I read on this forum that is already possible to install iphone apps on the ipod touch. http://www.ipodtouchfans.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=4
After reading all the posts i believe the iPhone Dev Team has done apple a favor. Apple knows that people want to unlock the iphone. Being the phone unsubsidized O2 can try to protect itself by claiming that they don´t ´have´ to unlock it for you since it wasn´t them who lock it in the first place. As for Apple the iphone can be sold as a ´limited´ device technology-wise, like a player that only supports certain types of files, it ´only´ works with O2. You may not sign a contract when you buy an iphone but the device´s ´limitations´ and a few features are written on the box for you to read.
But where are people´s rights and freedom?
People want to unlock it and will probably appeal. Because of what i said above this could go on and on in a court which would damage apple/02´s image.
So now comes the iPhone Dev Team. These guys have made it possible and almost really easy to ´unlock´ the iphone. Apple doesnt need to provide an unlock anymore, neither O2. I read somewhere that part of the 269 pounds goes to O2 just as part of the data/voice revenue goes to Apple. They are both protected somehow. If you consider the fact that people who will actually unlock it are a minority, its convenient to just let them do it, it will save tons of money in law suits not to mention in warranty.
Since the software unlock came out itunes ve had a couple of updates already. If it was vital for apple to stop the unlocking, these updates would have done something already. It´s just convenient. Let a few people have their freedom and take advantage of that at the same time. I believe both apple and O2 can benefit from this. |
SloopJohnB
Joined: Oct 28, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: the blue planet
PM |
My mistake... iphone apps cant be installed on the ipod touch yet. But its a matter of time. |
Dogmann
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: London England
PM |
@SloopJohnB
As i said and why i was surprised at your post although I couldn't be bothered just now to register to the Touch Forum. The teams that cracked the iPhone are having real problems gaining access and without wanting to get to technical. This is due to the fact that Apple have consciously added encryption and various other bits of software to stop it being hacked. Remember Steve Jobs did say it was a game of cat and mouse and i think for now the Cat has just caught the mouse.
The fact that you could or may still be able to unlock the iPhone really is not the point either as by doing so you invalidate your warranty. Also not everyone is either comfortable or able to start modyifying ther device and the whole point really is they shouldn't have to.
Either Apple or 02 are in the wrong here and one or both of them IMO are going to do have to do something about it. One way or another they will have to either give or sell an unlock code for the iPhone i just can't see how they are going to have a choice as selling a device locked to one Network is illegal. There are really no if buts or maybes that is what the Law did when it was passed it and it is illegal to to do .
Marc
Blackberry Bold, V4.6.0.214, 8GB SDHC, Pin2553F455
Honoured to have Won Best Debater for the 2nd Year |
SloopJohnB
Joined: Oct 28, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: the blue planet
PM |
Thats the ´ideal´ scenario but both apple and O2 have big time lawyers to defend their interests for a long time before the ´public´ wins. Till that happens people will continue buying iphones just as happens in u.s Surely some people have complained there but the situation remains the same and according to some people who posted here, O2 seems very firm in not providing an unlock.
If you watch the video of uk´s iphone release, steve jobs sounds almost too ´casual´ when speaking of ´unlocking´, like the thing itself and preventing it were very ´casual´ and ´easy´, like a cat and mouse race that they tryed to stay ahead but weren´t sure if they were cat or mouse (jobs true words). Now if you are concern about unlocking like for example sony is about the psp, you are expected to take rougher measures and make firmer statements. But of course this is pure speculation, i am just surprised apple havent done anything AT ALL yet because I thought they would the first day after, so im considering theres more to this than we consumers know. |
Dogmann
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: London England
PM |
@SloopJohnB
The reason i think reason he appeared so casual was he is well aware of exactly what they have now implemented and done with the touch and fully expect once the 1.1 firmware upgrade is released or new devices start shipping with this firmware. The situation re unlocking and customization will have changed and no longer be possible.
Which means people with 1.02 Firmware will have to stick with this firmware and not be able to upgrade, which may or may not be a big deal dependant on just what and how many improvements and new features are made with the upcoming new firmwares.
Either way even if i do decide to get an iPhone i really can only see myself using the Web based features over WiFi and only using a PAYG Sim. Which while it may work for my needs i don't know just how viable that would be for most people.
But to be honest the more i think about as i now have an iPod for my multimedia needs i am more likely to just wait and see just how good or bad the Nokia S60 touchscreen devcie will be as unlike the iPhone i am sure it will not only be 3G and have HSDPA but wil have just so many apps to allow the user to customise it it do what they want or need.
Marc
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Nokia E61, 2gb Sandisk, Fring, Tom Tom 6
Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER
[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-09-24 14:00 ] |
Dogmann
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: London England
PM |
Hi all,
OK just a little update of some new information i have spoken to OFCOM who have opened a file on my report and according to them 02 will indeed need to sell an unlock code if a user requests one, but obviously until the device is launched and 02 refuse there is nothing they can do yet.
I also just spoke with 02 again to try and preorder an 02 PAYG iPhone Sim card but as yet they are not available but will be available either at an 02 shop for £15 or £9.99 if ordered direct by phone from 02.
I also phoned customer services re getting an unlock code for an iPhone and this time got a different response which was at this time they don't have any information so i will need to call back once the iPhone has been launched.
So maybe after all the first person i spoke with didn't have a clue what he was talking about and 02 may indeed be selling unlock codes after all. So at this time all i can or anyone else can do is wait till it launches and see what 02's position is then. But if they decide they will not sell unlock codes OFCOM will indeed act on this as it is indeed illegal to refuse to.
Marc
_________________
Nokia E61, 2gb Sandisk, Fring, Tom Tom 6
Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER
[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-09-24 20:54 ] |
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Posted: 2007-09-22 22:42
