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Nokia toppled as UK No1 by Sony Ericsson? |
mario2004
Joined: Sep 16, 2006
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From: South Africa
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If most people are using SE phones, how come Nokia outsell them by 3.5:1. It looks like some posters can't see the difference between 'bullshit' talk and reality. 'to use kbr768's terminology'. Even in England (one of the few places Se just just outsell nokia), the 'dark lord' is very well represented. :grin:
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pachy
Joined: Nov 05, 2002
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mario2004
But what you say only gets heard on a SE forum, that says alot about whats HOT.
Reminder; milk, sugar, crisps, post letter. |
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
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From: Australia
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On 2007-01-27 04:09:49, mib1800 wrote:
@max_wedge
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| I detest it, and find the SE UI far more user friendly and flexible. There is no effort at multi-tasking for example. SE non-smartphone UI is ahead of Nokia non-smartphone UI imho. Again this is something I notice many people comment on. |
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The latest s40 in 5300 allows mp3 to be played in background. As to multi-tasking, yes you r right, it is still not at the level of SE UI. Then again SE UI dont have very useful active standby screen. And not to mention SE UI is SLOW compared to S40. On the whole, s40 still is behind SE UI but not 10 times worse as u said. 
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| no cable included (and Nokia unlike SE, have multitudes of different data cables, changes almost model to model, |
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I think this is incorrect. Most phones are compatible with the CA-52/53 data cable. All s60 phones have data cable included and so does phones that have a memory card slot.
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| Now I know it's only an example, and it does have some features (compass, thermometer etc) not available on SE phones, but the features are pretty gimmicky imho. There is no reason Nokia couldn't have put atleast 176x176 screen and bluetooth in this phone. |
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Do you realise 5140 is a SPORT's model? Those functions are not gimmicky. Why r u comparing an old (niche) model with SE top end K750? How about using recent models? Why does a 6233 which has much more functionality than a W850 and cost at least 40% cheaper? How you want to rebut this? So does this mean that SE is screwing its customers big time?? 
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Yeah OKAY, 10 TIMES is too much 
My brother in law purchased the "old" 5140, recently for $250 brand new, about the same as K750 in many stores, but for a more realistic comparison, I could pick the K700 for example, even older than the 5140, yet it still has better ui. better memory and better connectivity. However you are right there is not much point arguing about old phones, I will cease and desist 
My point about the cable and memory was to show how current s40 phones compare to SE phones, ie not that well. I agree s60 phones are better equipped. But this just proves what I'm saying, most Nokia s60 phones aren't about smartphone so much as about providing a phone that can compete with other manufacturers UI's (since s40 just can't). S60 is about multimedia/internet, and they are competing directly with SE non-smartphones, and on an equal footing.
SE don't really need to put smartphone os's across their range. Their non-smartphone OS is more than capable of providing a strong multimedia platform. Nokia on the other hand need to convert as many s40 handsets into s60, just to compete adequately with SE non-smartphones (and Motorola, also have a good UI).
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mib1800
Joined: Mar 18, 2004
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@max_wedge
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| S60 is about multimedia/internet, and they are competing directly with SE non-smartphones, and on an equal footing. |
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I am not saying otherwise. . However, techie buyers (whose numbers are quite significant) do buy s60 for its smartphone capability. For the rest of the users it is more the overall package/pricing that determines the decision rather than UI/OS. For those buyers who like "the more the merrier", s60 phones being better equipped would have advantage over SE phones. But for those who are looking for specific capability like mp3 then they may choose SE.
S60 phones being perceived as "jack of all trade" is now changing as Nokia is tailoring and enhancing each s60 device for specific capability like the 6290/n76/91 for music). From user feedback/review, N91 beats any SE phone in terms of music quality. imo, SE advantage in specific niche segment like music is coming to an end.
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SE don't really need to put smartphone os's across their range. Their non-smartphone OS is more than capable of providing a strong multimedia platform. Nokia on the other hand need to convert as many s40 handsets into s60, just to compete adequately with SE non-smartphones (and Motorola, also have a good UI).
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I dont think Nokia needs to convert all s40 to compete. There are advantages to s40, one being very fast and secondly it is very stable (you seldom hear of WSOD which is synonymous with SE UI ). The newer s40 FP1 holds up very well to SE UI in aesthetics as well as ease of use but lost in multi-tasking (but then again like you say not many care for multi-tasking/smartphone so SE UI has no advantage at all in this aspect )
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max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
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From: Australia
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Interesting points about s40 mib. Mind you white screens in SE UI isn't that much of a problem, though I admit when you push it it can run out of memory and reset to a white screen. But then you don't see s40 (yet anyway) being used for as demanding multimedia as SE non-smartphones.
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mib1800
Joined: Mar 18, 2004
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| But then you don't see s40 (yet anyway) being used for as demanding multimedia as SE non-smartphones. |
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There are some exception. 6233/88 has vga recording which should be quite taxing on the phone. On the whole I agree with you that most s40 phones have less multimedia than say K800.
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max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
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From: Australia
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Overall I think it comes down to preference. I prefer the overall ergonomics of SE phones, they have the equipment level I require, so I stick with them for non-smartphone use.
I have an XDA II mini for smartphone use, which I find much more flexible and useful than either s60 or uiq devices.
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mario2004
Joined: Sep 16, 2006
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From: South Africa
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If one cares to remember, I have pointed out years ago on this same forum (and on C++ programming related) symbian/s60 is a winner. I remember like yesterday, when together with a few other c++ enthusiasts we 'dissected' parts of the original/very first s60 OS (7650) Now non of us where professional programmers, but the elegant (modular way) of symbian programming in general and s60 interface in particular, struck me ! I immediately saw the by then 'hidden' advantage nokia will have and decided to buy shares. I have sold them for a nice profit a while back, but the s60 advantage remained. Please do a search under mario2002 (my old name) and see for yourself (look and 2004 postings) While motorola, se, apple takes shots in the dark and sometimes hit something (razor line, cybershot/music etc) nokia adapt in months to circumstances because of a very flexible underlying OS ! Yes most people don't know what s60 is or does but trust me Nokia does!
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max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
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From: Australia
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On 2007-01-28 14:19:06, mario2004 wrote:
If one cares to remember, I have pointed out years ago on this same forum (and on C++ programming related) symbian/s60 is a winner. I remember like yesterday, when together with a few other c++ enthusiasts we 'dissected' parts of the original/very first s60 OS (7650) Now non of us where professional programmers, but the elegant (modular way) of symbian programming in general and s60 interface in particular, struck me ! I immediately saw the by then 'hidden' advantage nokia will have and decided to buy shares. I have sold them for a nice profit a while back, but the s60 advantage remained. Please do a search under mario2002 (my old name) and see for yourself (look and 2004 postings) While motorola, se, apple takes shots in the dark and sometimes hit something (razor line, cybershot/music etc) nokia adapt in months to circumstances because of a very flexible underlying OS ! Yes most people don't know what s60 is or does but trust me Nokia does!
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Yes you are a god mario. Many times you have demonstrated your complete lack of bias, therefore I believe and worship everything you say.
Despite the fact you haven't investigated UIQ to the same degree as s60, and despite as a non-professional you feel entitled to make assessment of s60, despite the fact it was 3 years ago and there is now a NEW version of UIQ, despite the fact that UIQ ALSO uses Symbian (surely the underlying os is the heart of the operating system not the ui), despite all these reasons I'm going to just believe it because you say it. I'll read your post and take it as GOD's Commandments written on stone, to never look at any phopne every again unless it says NOKIA on it.
There you happy?
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goldenface
Joined: Dec 17, 2003
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From: Liverpool City Centre
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Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit - although it can be the most effective
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mario2004
Joined: Sep 16, 2006
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From: South Africa
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Yes you are a god mario. Many times you have demonstrated your complete lack of bias, therefore I believe and worship everything you say.
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Sorry for upsetting you buddy. That wasn't my intention! I don't want anyone to 'believe' or accept it as given what I say. I just want you to look around and see things from different angles. You are right - I am not always as unbiased as I should be (that has got a lot to do with some posters on this forum too - no excuse thou). And yes you are right again - I haven't spend any time with P990i's Symbian OS incarnation. But I have heard a lot in programing circles (I defend symbian here and there you know). You think the users have problems with the P990i's system stability? Huh - the software developers are hit even worse! And keep in mind - they can't complain in public as the users do. (Money invested in developing a program will be lost if the developer tells the world - the system might crash if running it together with this or that ! ! !) Is a nightmare - SE use to trumpet almost a year back 'the P990i is delayed to give more time to software developers to come up with the goodies' What a blaf. I remember I was furious at SE, how can they fool potential customers like that? The delelopers did not even receive a properly working emulator to test the programs they were supposed to develop. (I am still waiting for a reply to my email send early last year  ) Don't understand me wrong buddy. I like the P990i. Yes I do, after all it uses Symbian too. But it could have been such a better device. Let's hope that this time next year, I will have better things to say about SE and 'flagship' phones I am asking once again the question - SE have increased their market share and profits, but at whose expence? Greetings from South Africa. Mario
'Better govern our selfs the wrong way, then be governed by 'others' the right way.'
- Robert Mugabe - Freedom fighter comarade, peoples hero and President of Zimbabwe. |
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Australia
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hey mario, thanks for the reply. Sorry about being a bit over the top, but I felt you were telling us to look at your post as "proof", as if you were to say it was so it must be! Sorry to have doubted you buddy, thanks for elucidating. I was having a bad morning (plus some other unrelated threads had me a bit riled)!
I guess I have to begrudgingly agree with you about P990 and support for development. It is one area SE fall down. I wonder how (or if) UIQ development will change much when SE are fully in control?
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mib1800
Joined: Mar 18, 2004
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@max_wedge:
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| It is one area SE fall down. I wonder how (or if) UIQ development will change much when SE are fully in control? |
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I remember reading somewhere that developing a smartphone platform is much more difficult and expensive than was once anticipated. So I think it will be a few more generations before UIQ3 can be at same level of stability/performance of s60.
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Residentevil
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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From: Raccoon City, USA
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Quote:
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On 2007-01-29 09:25:06, goldenface wrote:
Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit - although it can be the most effective
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I would say the highest form of wit.
Tough times don't last, tough people do!
Free Tibet |
mario2004
Joined: Sep 16, 2006
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From: South Africa
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@mib Yes you are right, s60 it is more mature of the 2, but don't fool yourself, UIQ is the more powerfull one. The 2 can't really be compared. Yes both have symbian 'underneath' but that's it. S60 is standing out by its relative simplicity and elegant development (and hopefully usage) whereas Uiq is more like the other way around. (definitly nice usage at the expence of more difficult implementation. Remember nokia & co spend huge amounts to get s60 where it is. Se did a pretty good job with the 'old' symbian and I am sure they will sort out the 'new' one too (eventually) What I ain't so sure of is the incentive se has to pour money in it :( after all they discovered a nice milk cow. And is not symbian powered.
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Posted: 2007-01-27 12:37
