| Author |
Nokia Lumia 1020 |
false_morel
Joined: Feb 24, 2010
Posts: 375
PM |
On 2013-10-04 04:45:49, mlife wrote:
no where in my post (which remains unedited) did I claim this to be any sort of official test, nor did I ever use the word "crop".... Also, thank you CAPTAIN OBVIOUS for pointing out that zooming is not cropping... DID I EVER SAY THAT - go back and read.
Then explain to me this statement to which my last reply based on:
"But I do quite often crop photos after the fact for sending via email, mms or posting to foursquare... so that level of crop is not uncommon for how I like to use my 808"
Im VERY WELL aware of how to correctly compare images but lets face it... THIS IS A PHONE, not a hasselblad H series camera or even a DSLR / get over yourself. I was simply pointing out that IN MY OPINION, this phones camera is a JOKE when compared to the 808 for how I WOULD USE IT.... not YOU or the masses... JUST ME... so slow your roll.
Well the point I tried to make is that these are cameraphones whereas pixel peeping makes no sense.
You stated your opinion based on your specific use cases. Which is all fine of course.
But when you state that the 1020 is inferior and a joke compared to the 808 under this use case, it means the 808 is a more capable camera. Whereas I argued that what your conclusion is based on personal preference not the more capable camera. There is a distinction here that you missed. I can't see anything offensive or wrong in trying to set this distinction clear. If you disagree, then we can discuss it in proper manner.
and by the way, DPI does not mean "literally nothing" it means dots per inch and is a very good piece of information for those that would ever be looking to make high quality prints from one of the images.
This DPI number in EXIF literally means nothing. You can still print the 808 and 1020 images to any optional DPI the printer can manage.
It obviously has nothing to do with the quality of the digital version. And it also has nothing to do with the quality of the printed photo as long as you set the printer to print at a specific DPI or the printer's default setting take over..
Mentioning the DPI in the EXIF is simply there cause of outdated convention and each OEM usually picks a random number out of the most used parameters.
I disagree.... his long rambling diatribe seems to only be an attempt to aggrandize his self serving opinions on what a knowledgeable "source" HE is and what a poor job I did "reviewing" the image output...
I don't think you need to go to this level. Anyone could state his opinion and anyone else also has the right to comment or address this opinion.. As long as the discussion or debate remains within accepted respect's boundaries I see nothing wrong in this. | |
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false_morel
Joined: Feb 24, 2010
Posts: 375
PM |
On 2013-10-04 03:23:00, Bonovox wrote:
@False_Morel your posts always make sense
Thanks Bono..
Comparing the 808 and 1020 is really getting out of control.. I think with the all the comparison photos we saw so far the difference is quite clear.. It does ultimately goes down to one's personal preference..
A clever solution Nokia would opt to is implementing different processing for different preferences.. And who knows, this feature could be delivered next year.
Instead of debating which camera is more capable we should maybe be mass emailing Nokia to implement this feature. |
mlife
Joined: Jan 16, 2003
Posts: > 500
PM |
I could tell from your first post where you stated "no offense"that you were indeed only being passive aggressive so I let it slide. With that being said, I'm not going to even placate to you regarding this topic any further as it's clear either your reading comprehension needs work or you're simply trolling.... my use of the word crop you chose to quote was a) taken from a different post and b) referring to my use of photos and not my review.
Go kick rocks
[addsig] |
cu015170
Joined: Oct 26, 2010
Posts: > 500
PM |
mlife, what I've found out is that most people can't quite grasp what good IQ really means, and that's the fundamental problem. You could try any explain all you want, but if they can't see/understand it .. its a lost cause.
I knew that the 1020 had an inferior camera from day one, it was very clear to me, but a lot of people were hoping that it isn't the case, and they still do. There is still talk of future updates that will bring amazing IQ (same with the Z1 btw), and there is still people out there that genuinely believe that the 1020 takes better pictures.. based on what exactly, I do not know. I think its most wishful thinking to be honest.
Anyone that knows at least a bit about how a good jpeg should look like will tell you that the 808 is better.
It was the same thing with the 920 .. everybody thought that it will be better than the 808, but no one bothered to look at the sensor size 
Either way, in some ways the 1020 is the better phone, but I wouldn't say its 100%.. there are plenty of things at which the 808 excels in terms of features. Like.. separate volume controls for calling and the music player, smart dialing, widgets, HDMI, sd card slot, removable batteries, etc.
Of course the 1020 has more apps, a much better browser, and it will get more updates for sure.
The 1020 is also way more expensive (unlocked) which.. not sure if its justified in any way.
[ This Message was edited by: cu015170 on 2013-10-04 19:44 ] |
false_morel
Joined: Feb 24, 2010
Posts: 375
PM |
On 2013-10-04 18:54:37, mlife wrote:
my use of the word crop you chose to quote was a) taken from a different post and
Nope. A failed escape I call here.
Check the order of the posts again to know which post referred to which.
b) referring to my use of photos and not my review.
Seriously?! |
false_morel
Joined: Feb 24, 2010
Posts: 375
PM |
On 2013-10-04 20:43:21, cu015170 wrote:
mlife, what I've found out is that most people can't quite grasp what good IQ really means, and that's the fundamental problem. You could try any explain all you want, but if they can't see/understand it .. its a lost cause.
I knew that the 1020 had an inferior camera from day one, it was very clear to me, but a lot of people were hoping that it isn't the case, and they still do. There is still talk of future updates that will bring amazing IQ (same with the Z1 btw), and there is still people out there that genuinely believe that the 1020 takes better pictures.. based on what exactly, I do not know. I think its most wishful thinking to be honest.
Anyone that knows at least a bit about how a good jpeg should look like will tell you that the 808 is better.
Lost cause. Wishful thinking. Anyone who knows ... good JPEG should look like. Everybody thought the 920 would be better than the 808.
I haven't came across anybody who claimed the 920 would be better than the 808.
But as to the other claims, why would you think anyone would lie about the 1020 IQ other than Nokia obviously?
If you really think that people saying that 1020 and 808 are on equal grounds are knowingly lying then you apparently live in a world of your own.
If you think that they are being wrong due to lack of knowledge and expertise, this would be by itself a highly questionable claim.
Again, you are lost between what is a personal preference and what is IQ!
To make it clear to you:
There are six processing algorithms for JPEGs on the Nikon D7000: Neutral, Standard, Vivid, Landscape, Portrait, Monochrome.
Each giving different values of: Saturation, Sharpness, Contrast, Brightness, and Hue.
And there is an option for one to play with the slides giving own preferred picture control settings.
And there is different noise handling algorithms to choose from ranging from none to high.
What you are doing is like taking two D7000 cameras, one set at Neutral and high noise reduction, the other set at Vivid with boosted sharpness and medium noise reduction.
Then you claim that the former camera is more capable than the second! |
davidsic
Joined: May 30, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Belgium
PM |
@ cu, 1020 does not take better pictures than 808 but more pleasing to the eyes and that's what you're not seem understand.
I had two 808 and i often found that it made exeptional pics for a phone but i was never satisfied to 100% (sometimes whashed out, too soft...) in spite of the settings.
The majority of people will prefer the pics from 1020, they will not speak by technical details and i belong of it (i like the technical stuffs but not too much).
If 808 and 1020 had been professionnal devices that would have been important (pixels size, dpi, size of the sensor)...but they are not !
The 1020 takes crisp sharp warm colourfull pics helping with OIS, record oustanding videos but you don't like it like the others 25 persons on the planet who still use a 808 running on Symbian   |
cu015170
Joined: Oct 26, 2010
Posts: > 500
PM |
Sure, they seem a bit more lively on auto settings, but I was never a fan of saturation.. that's why I switched from an iPhone 4 to a Nokia N8 back in 2010 and never looked back. So to me.. the 1020 pics are not all that pleasing in terms of color reproduction, but what bothers me the most is the grain/noise levels... once I got used to looking at the clean jpegs the 808 produces, its very hard for me to consider anything else.
If the 1020 did in fact produce better pictures, I would own one by now for sure... the camera is the most important aspect for me, the rest of the features pretty much overlap so I don't care.
If anyone puts a 1" sensor + a fat xenon in a phone I will buy it.. regardless of who makes it or what smart OS it runs. I would prefer it to be Symbian, since I do like it, but.. it really doesn't matter all that much, image quality is the most important one.
Oh, and there were plenty of people saying that the 920 is going to be better or just as good as the 808 before it launched... there was so much hype around the OIS system.. it was kind of funny  |
Bonovox
Joined: Apr 13, 2008
Posts: > 500
PM |
I like the better contrast and colours on the 1020
Phone?? What phone?? |
cu015170
Joined: Oct 26, 2010
Posts: > 500
PM |
The beauty is that you can make an 808 jpeg look like a cartoon as well.. there are plenty of those in my gallery. |
davidsic
Joined: May 30, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Belgium
PM |
Take a look : http://www.flickr.com/groups/lumia1020/ |
Sonysta
Joined: May 25, 2013
Posts: 198
PM |
On 2013-10-04 04:45:49, mlife wrote:
On 2013-10-04 03:23:00, Bonovox wrote:
@False_Morel your posts always make sense
I disagree.... his long rambling diatribe seems to only be an attempt to aggrandize his self serving opinions on what a knowledgeable "source" HE is and what a poor job I did "reviewing" the image output... no where in my post (which remains unedited) did I claim this to be any sort of official test, nor did I ever use the word "crop".... Also, thank you CAPTAIN OBVIOUS for pointing out that zooming is not cropping... DID I EVER SAY THAT - go back and read. Im VERY WELL aware of how to correctly compare images but lets face it... THIS IS A PHONE, not a hasselblad H series camera or even a DSLR / get over yourself. I was simply pointing out that IN MY OPINION, this phones camera is a JOKE when compared to the 808 for how I WOULD USE IT.... not YOU or the masses... JUST ME... so slow your roll. and by the way, DPI does not mean "literally nothing" it means dots per inch and is a very good piece of information for those that would ever be looking to make high quality prints from one of the images.
[ This Message was edited by: mlife on 2013-10-04 03:57 ]
Excellent review... I agree ! |
hihihans
Joined: Mar 15, 2009
Posts: > 500
From: Netherlands
PM |
Are you all still fighting over 1020 vs 808.
Two different phones from different times for different people with different needs. No wonder they're different.
|
Sonysta
Joined: May 25, 2013
Posts: 198
PM |
On 2013-10-04 20:43:21, cu015170 wrote:
mlife, what I've found out is that most people can't quite grasp what good IQ really means, and that's the fundamental problem. You could try any explain all you want, but if they can't see/understand it .. its a lost cause.
I knew that the 1020 had an inferior camera from day one, it was very clear to me, but a lot of people were hoping that it isn't the case, and they still do. There is still talk of future updates that will bring amazing IQ (same with the Z1 btw), and there is still people out there that genuinely believe that the 1020 takes better pictures.. based on what exactly, I do not know. I think its most wishful thinking to be honest.
Anyone that knows at least a bit about how a good jpeg should look like will tell you that the 808 is better.
It was the same thing with the 920 .. everybody thought that it will be better than the 808, but no one bothered to look at the sensor size
Either way, in some ways the 1020 is the better phone, but I wouldn't say its 100%.. there are plenty of things at which the 808 excels in terms of features. Like.. separate volume controls for calling and the music player, smart dialing, widgets, HDMI, sd card slot, removable batteries, etc.
Of course the 1020 has more apps, a much better browser, and it will get more updates for sure.
The 1020 is also way more expensive (unlocked) which.. not sure if its justified in any way.
[ This Message was edited by: cu015170 on 2013-10-04 19:44 ]
Congratulations Cu015170 !
You as always consistent and intelligent in their opinions !
Unlike some who think to understand something, but not really understand it at all !
I totally agree with you ! |
Sonysta
Joined: May 25, 2013
Posts: 198
PM |
On 2013-10-04 21:04:59, false_morel wrote:
On 2013-10-04 20:43:21, cu015170 wrote:
mlife, what I've found out is that most people can't quite grasp what good IQ really means, and that's the fundamental problem. You could try any explain all you want, but if they can't see/understand it .. its a lost cause.
I knew that the 1020 had an inferior camera from day one, it was very clear to me, but a lot of people were hoping that it isn't the case, and they still do. There is still talk of future updates that will bring amazing IQ (same with the Z1 btw), and there is still people out there that genuinely believe that the 1020 takes better pictures.. based on what exactly, I do not know. I think its most wishful thinking to be honest.
Anyone that knows at least a bit about how a good jpeg should look like will tell you that the 808 is better.
Lost cause. Wishful thinking. Anyone who knows ... good JPEG should look like. Everybody thought the 920 would be better than the 808.
I haven't came across anybody who claimed the 920 would be better than the 808.
But as to the other claims, why would you think anyone would lie about the 1020 IQ other than Nokia obviously?
If you really think that people saying that 1020 and 808 are on equal grounds are knowingly lying then you apparently live in a world of your own.
If you think that they are being wrong due to lack of knowledge and expertise, this would be by itself a highly questionable claim.
Again, you are lost between what is a personal preference and what is IQ!
To make it clear to you:
There are six processing algorithms for JPEGs on the Nikon D7000: Neutral, Standard, Vivid, Landscape, Portrait, Monochrome.
Each giving different values of: Saturation, Sharpness, Contrast, Brightness, and Hue.
And there is an option for one to play with the slides giving own preferred picture control settings.
And there is different noise handling algorithms to choose from ranging from none to high.
What you are doing is like taking two D7000 cameras, one set at Neutral and high noise reduction, the other set at Vivid with boosted sharpness and medium noise reduction.
Then you claim that the former camera is more capable than the second!
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Posted: 2013-10-04 18:27
