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Is Sony Ericsson doomed? |
anonymuser
Joined: Dec 17, 2002
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On 2008-07-24 15:44:39, Sony α wrote:
Hmmm -
Do I sense Sony Bashing going on here?
Funny you should all rip into the Japanese Electronics Giant like that, because all of the Sony Ericsson handsets you guys use outside of Japan (K850i, W910i etc) are ALL ERICSSON's!
Innovation? I dont think so.
While in Japan, its Sony, the same Sony who you are all tearing apart - who are creating handsets that are in a league of their own...
So who's really innovative here - because its bloody well not Ericsson right now.
Hmm - the problem is, the phone's we're tearing apart are branded and made by Sony Ericsson, not Ericsson, and that makes them as much Sony's responsibilty as anyone else. Ok, Ericsson put up all the technology to begin with, and that's the ageing technology that they're still using now, but what have Sony contributed outside of Japan?
Aside from that, the question was who is the best phone maker, and that can only be answered by looking at their respective performance before the joint venture. Ericsson phones were excellent, IMO, if not overly commercial - they pioneered technologies like Bluetooth, Symbian, colour screens, etc that we're all still using today. Sony phones were - outside of Japan at least - absolute crud. It was the combination of Ericsson phone technology and Sony marketing and CE expertise that was supposed to be the dream ticket for SE, but while that technology was certainly there at the beginning (with every SE handset being significantly more advanced than Sony's offerings previously), the joint company has failed to maintain that lead.
[ This Message was edited by: Boinng on 2008-07-24 15:09 ] |
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Bonovox
Joined: Apr 13, 2008
Posts: > 500
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Actually what else i think is poor is. Why are other companies pushing ahead tech wise with things like full VGA recording on their phones and SE still seem to struggle with that when others have been doing it for ages. And another thing which still has not that much improved since the Ericsson days. Why are their phones still quite slow to use. I find alot of SE phones still suffer from the same slow chip that dogged the Ericsson phones of old. Surely innovation from Sony could have sorted that. Remembering the Sony J5 i had on Orange many years back was funny. It had ring tones that sounded like fairground rides. Lol |
Dups!
Joined: Sep 24, 2006
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From: GMT +2
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Ericsson were heavily involved during the early stages of this joint venture and the results were amazing. Then came Sony branding which brought about the dreaded segmentation which led to now. If you've ever used Ericsson you would know the quality and advanced technology that came with that name. The P800, T610, K700 to mention a few said Ericsson innovation. If Sony is so advanced now is the time to the fore cause they haven't done anything till this far bar the branding which offers little if any enhancements. |
Sony α
Joined: Dec 23, 2007
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Yes, you all make Very good points - and I agree with them pretty much all the way.
But, It was Ericsson's own decision to take care of Sony Ericsson outside of Japan - The S700i was innovative, and I actually have the K700i, P910i and T610 back in London lol - great handsets - no doubt!
However, the S700i was SEMCJ....
Sony Alpha.
imaging.like.no.other
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SilveR.
Joined: May 03, 2002
Posts: > 500
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Yes..
When we talk about quality the S700 was a quality phone.. one of the best, P800 was good quality too, last phone made in Sweden??
And Original T68m was from Ericsson too.. that phone was the first phone with color and in built aerial. but which nightmare when use it, I got it replace 5 times, most buggy phone they ever released.. ..
How ever SE will be bake end of this year... that's I'm sure. And C905 will sell. that's I'm very sure about it.. so give them a chance..
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Dups!
Joined: Sep 24, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: GMT +2
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@Sony a- I have to agree with you that the S700 was an awesome phone. My gripe here is that SE as a company is a mess. The planning between Sony and Ericsson is non-existent, I'm aware that SE is a company on its own but there should be sufficient (not too much) input from the parent companies. Look at what should be on the table and what's actually there. With Ericsson and Sony technologies and expertise no one company should be standing in their way- yes, Nokia in particular- they should be ahead by a long shot. Actually they were till mid-2006 when it all evaporated. This is a partnership and Sony should get off its backside and get involved. It's time to bring all the Japanese technology and sync it properly with SE worldwide. |
Sony α
Joined: Dec 23, 2007
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@EMS06
I think you have 'sealed the deal' so as to say there dude - there really should not be SEMC and SEMCJ as two different entities, it should be one 'power' to rule them all a la Lord of the Rings lol!
Agreed, what SHOULD be there - isnt right now - and thats a shame, with Ericsson LM, who are the leaders in Communications, and the Ericsson platform being used by more than just Sony Ericsson - along with Sony's own technologies (Maybe now my point of just WHY IN THE BLUE HELL Sony Ericsson are using Samsung parts, moreso their Camera modules [if what Eldar says is to be believed]).
Thats why I see Hideki San doing a good job at SEMC's helm - because he'll be more inclined to bring what SEMCJ's portfolio contains - to Europe - we are already seeing it happen in the C905...
As the 'Big Boss' at Sony Ericsson - it is now Hideki San who can reduce the gap between SEMC and SEMCJ.
Sony Alpha.
imaging.like.no.other
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Bonovox
Joined: Apr 13, 2008
Posts: > 500
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I agree about the S700i it was my favourite ever SonyEricsson phone. Wish they would produce something that solid and great again but with even more advanced tech. What i also think is lately so much has been thrown into the Cybershot and Walkman branding that they have not concentrated on quality. Dont get me wrong not all their new phones are awful but i see nothing new in terms of design new technology or reliability. And the question has to be answered as to why when they have Sony Cybershot and Sony Walkman branding and someone like Nokia has made quite a few of their phones with better sound and better cameras. I dont say all of Nokias but quite a few. Its very strange. And you would think because SE does not whack out mobiles at the same pace as Nokia Samsung or LG you would think they would concentrate more on quality and quality control. K850i ahem. |
QVGA
Joined: May 23, 2006
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From: Pakistan
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I think the reason is that SE is scared.
Take a look at the last two real wonder devices they made, the S700 and W900. Superb pieces of technology for their time. Both were utter failures and brought lots of praise and almost no money for SE. So they are scared.
of making another such device.
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m.h Croatia
Joined: Feb 24, 2007
Posts: 142
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QVGA, I wouldn`t call k750, w800 and k800 failures at all - all this phones were top-of-the-class at their time.
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QVGA
Joined: May 23, 2006
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On 2008-07-24 18:32:24, m.h Croatia wrote:
QVGA, I wouldn`t call k750, w800 and k800 failures at all - all this phones were top-of-the-class at their time.
top of the class and top of the line are very very different.
W900 was a radical designed phone, huge screen with QVGA res. 3D accelerator and 30FPS QVGA recording.
K750 was just 2.0MP AF. Nothing else was top of the line.
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carkitter
Joined: Apr 29, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: Auckland, NZ
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On 2008-07-24 10:52:35, makbil wrote:
@carkitter, where SE is really loosing big time is in the stability and functionality of their phones. Remember that until R5 on P990 there was always the possibility that the phone could restart when receiving a call. This is just not acceptable and eventually word got around. Firmware issues have plagued most SE phones in the past 2 years. Now, if people pay premium amounts for a device - remember SE phones are not cheap at all - they expect it to work with all functions as advertised.
Unlike you, I don't think SE can turn things around soon. They need some time to reorganize properly and start most things from scratch - G900 still has P990 closed flip mode files lurking among its files. If they fail, when SF becomes available they stand no chance against their competitors.
I purposely stay away from commenting on Symbian models in the  lineup as 1) they don't appeal to me which means 2) I don't know alot about them and finally 3) alot of people have trouble with them which is one of the reasons they don't appeal to me.
As I have said in previous posts in other threads, is a niche market manufacturer (a best market penetration of 12%) and smart phones is the smallest niche operates in. I'm pleased that with the P800 they were able to make a great impact and appeal to many advanced users but to then sink back into the mass of devices from larger and better resourced companies is sad but not surprising. With the benefit of 20/20 hindsight UIQ was doomed to be swamped by the Open-source Symbian Foundation and the rampant S60 platform and perhaps the problems of the p910/P990 were symptomatic of that. As I say, I am not expert on this and try to stay away from this area of 's performance.
On 2008-07-24 12:19:59, Dogmann wrote:
@Carkitter
Sorry but despite what you think SE really are not as on track as you say for instance you say
"Mobile Internet browsing is an important feature moving forward and have acknowledged this with models like Z770/Z780 and the G-series and yet Wifi has been left out of almost all these models"
So how come only two of those devices have HSDPA which is today a basic addition for fast browsing and gives an enhanced Web experience to the user. What's even worse is the two smart phones are the ones that are missing it which makes no sense at all. The G series has only attracted new smart phone users from SE dumb phones as most if not all serious smart phone and Web users expect HSDPA in their device mid 2008.
Sorry Dogmann but you missed the point.
I'm talking about Wifi in feature phones, you're talking about HSDPA in smart phones. Please re-read the passage and take off your blinkers.
On 2008-07-24 12:19:59, Dogmann wrote:
It's really obvious to all that despite what SE and their fans say SE are failing to deliver what most users want. The A200 platform in the K850 launched just like the P990 in a not fit for sale state. Users were the Beta testers and really didn't appreciate it either many as much as they tried to live with it they gave up and chose another device and not one from SE either. Which is why so many users have had multiple units before many decided to get a N82 instead. All those returned units cost SE big time both by annoying the users and also worse the Networks including the financial cost to. Still 10 months on and there is still problems and people wonder why SE are dropping like a stone. Hardly surprising then that we then see some SE models not being carried by a network the P1 was carried by just one UK network SE's one and only flagship smart phone available from just one Network just how pathetic is that.
I agree with you here:
"It's really obvious to all that despite what SE and their fans say, SE are failing to deliver what most users want."
But we differ because you think are losing repeat business from dissatisfied customers, while I say thay are not gaining new customers because those customers are not attracted to phones because they lack certain 'must-have' features.
Your comments are emotive and superficial and lack any proof such as customer satisfaction surveys or figures on returns, or press statements from networks stating "Never again will we sell those useless SE handsets".
My comments are based on my analysis, rightly or wrongly, of 's press statements, the new products that are hitting the market with success such as the iphone 3G (3m sold in three days) N95 wide acceptance and recieving awards, and the fact that free wifi is available in Universities (I'm writing this from a university) and that low cost/subsidised products services and Open-Source platrforms are acknowlegded as the best marketing model at present and in the future. This is why IMO is seeing market growth leaving it behind, not disgruntled customers.
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[ This Message was edited by: carkitter on 2008-07-25 02:39 ] |
@ftyk
Joined: Apr 20, 2008
Posts: 139
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@QVGA,
what you have stated makes sense? se is scared to make another s700i/w900i. though these phones were super in all respects & they brought a lot of praise for se but not much money.
it's like making a big budget movie which wins awards at cannes/bafta/oscars but does not do well in cinemas.
@carkitter,
wi-fi is mostly a pre-dominant trait of smartphones/symbian phones. if you choose to, "purposely stay away from commenting on symbian models" then you should refrain from commenting on se's implementation of wi-fi as well.
btw, horses wear blinkers & not dogs, lol.
enjoy your dumbphones & lol, happy "passage" writing.
i hate repeating myself but i can't help it, you sure are funny. where can i vote for most hilarious posts on esato???
[addsig] |
carkitter
Joined: Apr 29, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: Auckland, NZ
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@ftyk
C905 has Wifi and is not a UIQ or WM device.
will see more sales success IMO if they continue this trend.
Why am I not surprised to see you lurking here amongst the other nay-sayers and prophets of doom? Get a life. |
@ftyk
Joined: Apr 20, 2008
Posts: 139
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@carkitter,
i so expected you to make such a ridiculous exception.
i wrote : "wi-fi is mostly a pre-dominant trait of smartphones/symbian phones."
can you see the "mostly" ???
or is it time to upgrade your reading glasses ???
i can see now why you have only dumbphones...lol.
[addsig] |
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Posted: 2008-07-24 16:07
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